Another Sad Succession Story

[mrj]

Isn't USDA pushing a process to pair 'beginning farmers' with those wanting to retire?

Not that I'd trust government programs all that much. And I'd worry, especially if I were the retiree, that USDA most likely would be pushing too you, too inexperienced, and those with too high expectations of income, too little fear of debt as good 'beginning farmer/rancher' prospect.

It also does not seem right to blame a person selling the ranch for high dollar. We all have been conditioned by the 'punish success' mantra in this country to believe some people have far more wealth and no debt, when we really have no way of knowing FACTS.

Nor do I believe it is wrong to want to pass on what one has EARNED with their life work to their family.

Yet, with the fickle markets, buying into big dollar businesses may have a sad ending for anyone who isn't realistically prepared for some really hard times in farming/ranching. They most likely are not over!!!

 

[Zilly]

As someone looking to get in, I have glanced at some "pairing programs" and my opinion is that it will take two special committed parties, who are on the exact same page from day 1 to the transferring of the deed. Rare...

If the two parties survive the mentoring process, then comes the biggest hurdle of all, the financing. Just because you're in the program, there is no guarantee of getting financing. Imagine being the mentor who has spent x number of years grooming the student while planning that once in a lifetime trip to Europe. Or the student who has put x number of years of life on hold for little pay, to come out with nothing tangible.

I don't want to be the student responsible for putting his mentor's trip to Europe on hold, so I'm considering different paths. Some may frown on this, but one is to continue working here on the east coast and start purchasing land and leasing it out. If the lease only pays the note, I'd be happy. Then when I have enough saved up to start a herd, make the move. Worse comes to worse, the land is a nice thing to have in the retirement portfolio.

 

[katrina]

Nice story.... I can beat it.... It's 101 on what NOT to do with family and ranching or farming... As parents, we must all write down on paper how we want things devided.... Even down to the pliers.. The big thing that totally blows my mind is how you can loose the bond of family over money and land.... I wish someone could explain that one..... All I can do is pray for their souls..

 

[Faster horses]

If Obama taxes us like he wants to, that might be a
blessing in disquise for some of these younger people that want to ranch.
Why sell your ranch and give a larger % away than
you get to keep? Hopefully there will be more land
for lease for those who wish to lease it. Around here the average age
of ranchers and farmers is up there. More places seem to be coming up for lease all the time.

We were helped years ago and it wasn't monetary. We owe a great deal
of gratitude to a couple of ranchers that went to bat for us and we were
able to get started on a pretty good ranch back in 1965. They helped
us in many ways but financially we did it on our own. No one 'gave' us
anything.
The lease on that ranch was a share deal
and at the time, fitted us perfectly. It was our desire to do the same for
someone else when we got to a place in life where we could.
Of course, we only have one daughter and her son isn't interested in
ranching at the present time.

We were able to help a deserving young family get started a couple of years ago by leasing to them.
They got a FHA Young Farmer loan and so far, it's worked out great as far as I know.

When we started ranching on our own, we had an FmHA loan,
and without that, we would have never gotten a start. I believe to this day,
if you can prove worthy and have a plan on paper, you can still get 100% loan through the FmHA.
The main thing with FmHA is ALWAYS BE TRUTHFUL
with them. We owed them from 1965 to 1973. Then when we bought the
place in SW Montana, we owed them again from 1975 to 1993. The FmHA
lady in the office here is wonderful to work with, so don't be afraid of the FmHA.
Just pay attention to business and I doubt
anyone would have a problem. That's what they were originally designed to do~ help people get started.
Interest is very attractive from them as well.

i wish anyone wanting to get started in farming/ranching that has some knowledge, the best of luck.
It's not going to be easy, but it certainly is fulfilling and a great life.

"If it was easy, everyone would be doing it."

 

[larriann21]

I am a newbie here; posting anyway. Have been lurking here getting my fix!! for years.

I worked for my dad on the farm all my school years doing all the farm work. Then stayed on after graduation. Even though I am a female, I did the majority of the tractor work, we raised cattle and hogs. About 2 years after graduation dad bought another small farm and he assured me I would get that farm, due to the fact he was paying me close to nothing. At first I was getting $50. a week and then he bumped me up to $75. a week.

I had no social life at all. I hated my life and disliked him intensely as he was a tyrant.
Anyway, I finally had enough and found another job, supposed to be temporary but turned into permanent. I lived on the second farm and remodeled the house and built a garage on the place all at my expense.
In the meantime, my mom died and less than 2 years later he married a woman 40 years younger than him and 10 years younger than his youngest child.

She alienated him from all us children and got the 2 farms, a lake home, and a small profitable business when he died. Three kids got nothing.

The moral of my story is to get whatever deal you have in writing. My dad refused to do that.

I walked away with nothing but my pride. But, I did have a very successful job with a well known trucking company and am retired on easy street now. So, I ended up well. I do still have bad feelings about the way my dad did me, though.

 

[redrobin]

I've watched the same story unfold more than once. As a matter of fact, it's common for kids to wait around to get their part of the family ranch or farm and in reality they should just go do their own deal. Mom and dads money is money you didn't make in the first place. It usually doesn't work the way you'd like for it to do. Denny, I commend you on your effort and risk taking. Good luck.

 

[LazyWP]

I've watched the same story unfold more than once. As a matter of fact, it's common for kids to wait around to get their part of the family ranch or farm and in reality they should just go do their own deal. Mom and dads money is money you didn't make in the first place. It usually doesn't work the way you'd like for it to do. Denny, I commend you on your effort and risk taking. Good luck.

I tend to disagree with both of you!! My dad was in and out of the hospital, from the time I was 6 until now. It wasn't him who did all of the feeding when we were feeding 1500 head of calves. It wasn't him who did all the repair work on the tractors, in subzero weather. Shoot, by the time I was a senior in highschool, he didn't even know how to set the combine so it didn't throw corn over the back. There were many days that I was up 2 hours before him, went to school, then set in the combine until way after midnight.

Yes I am bitter, but I will guarantee that there are FEW people, even now, that have my knowledge as to how to get things done.
I never wanted either my granddad's, nor my folks place given to me, but I did expect some help getting started. It wasn't that Grandpa didn't try to help, but he had 15 other grandkids, and 5 other children.

 

[High Plains]

I wrote a big response with some of my story, but then deleted it. I guess I've shared it here before. I am on the side of the fence that FlyingS is on. I have always kept an ear out for some way to get involved with a ranch that would have a good long term outcome. Missed a big opportunity to do that at 25 because I was young and not able to see the long term. Given the chance today, I'd probably choose differently. I'm closer to 40 now.

I still live a blessed life and have a wonderful family and a good job. I don't wake up excited to go to work anymore, but do get to work in the beef industry, travel and learn about all facets of this business. The travel part loses it's luster, trust me. :wink: It's pretty tough with a wife and kids but this job is what keeps food on the table, insurance, etc. Life could sure be worse but the longing is still there to ranch.

All of the comments and Cowpuncher's story are very intruiging. Amazing how events can unfold over time.

 

[mrj]

All the comments are pretty educational.

There probably is no perfect situation where working with family is concerned.

We probably would be in the very blessed category in our past experience, and I believe we learned to do an even better job, at least that has been our intent. Hindsight is helpful, but maybe not quite 20/20! We all are fallible and can make mistakes.

One benefit of a larger family is we don't ALL work together ALL THE TIME. And life can still get pretty tense. But we can also get over it and go on.

Some of the really tragic stories related here would be very difficult to live with.

And it has to be very difficult for all generations to value the contributions of others as well as to evaluate their own contributions. Our non-ranch families are very aware of the extremely hard work and generally necessarily low pay those on-ranch siblings made. And they know that our ranch planning reflects that, but they are not 'out in the cold', either.

Something that may have been a great benefit since the beginning of this five generation ranch is that each individual owns cattle and we have the land in an LLC with shares. Costs are shared according to cattle numbers. Parents and grandparents have helped each following generation build their herd while they worked (and learned HOW to work) along side that 'older' generation. We are greatly blessed to have our sixth generation on the ranch, and it is going to be FUN to see how she fits into our plans and dreams!!! If she keeps on as she started this first six months, she is going to be INVOLVED and ACTIVE!

My best advice is to find people you trust and respect to guide your planning, and do it EARLY. But, remember, they can only GUIDE you, they can't read your mind or change the laws all that much, no matter how much you may want them to!

BTW, you truly cannot afford to NOT have insurance, whether for health, liability, or your life. Buying it while young and healthy is the least cost and the time you need it most if you have children.

mrj