any difference other than size
- Thread starter C-E
- Start date
Help Support Ranchers.net:
tta stockdogs
Well-known member
There is no miniature nor standard Australian Shepherd....Australian Shepherd is just that Australian Shepherd..no size tacked in front of the name. The breed standard preferred size is 18-21 for females and 20-23 for males but could be smaller or larger but no name size-There are some 16-17 or 24 but no name sizes.
What is called miniature/toy is a different breed -North American Shepherd-that was created using Australian Shepherds plus other breeds-toy breeds, that is bred for size. Minuature/Toy is use for advertising purposes to 'play' off the Australian Shepherd name to the uninformed.
There is no major registry that recognizes miniature australian shepherd as a breed. Minutaure being used is a very touchy and hot topic to Australian Shepherd people--there is NO such thing as standard nor miniature.
Here is link to ASCA-Australian Shepherd Club.
www.asca.org/
What is called miniature/toy is a different breed -North American Shepherd-that was created using Australian Shepherds plus other breeds-toy breeds, that is bred for size. Minuature/Toy is use for advertising purposes to 'play' off the Australian Shepherd name to the uninformed.
There is no major registry that recognizes miniature australian shepherd as a breed. Minutaure being used is a very touchy and hot topic to Australian Shepherd people--there is NO such thing as standard nor miniature.
Here is link to ASCA-Australian Shepherd Club.
www.asca.org/
Chuckie
Well-known member
oops! sorry, thought this was about something else 
ps: size matters
ps: size matters
kolanuraven
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2005
- Messages
- 10,917
- Reaction score
- 11
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Kato
Well-known member
That's interesting. My sister has a Mini Aussie, and her bloodlines contain nothing but Australian Shepherds.
Here's some info from the Mini Aussie Association website.
The Australian Shepherd: The history of the North American/Miniature Australian Shepherd actually begins with the history of the Australian Shepherd. Though most facts are shrouded in time, the most commonly held belief on the origins of the Aussie begin in the late 1800's when western ranchers were importing sheep from Australia. During this period the most popular sheep were being imported into Australia from the Basque regions of Spain. When the herds were shipped, their shepherds were sent with them to manage and care for the flocks on the journey. As the Australian's reputation for quality sheep grew, the demand for their sheep grew also and American ranchers began importing them. The livestock were shipped to the Americas, again accompanied by the Basque shepherds and their herding dogs. Ranchers of the American west were reportedly very impressed with the working ability of these "little blue dogs" and began interbreeding them with their own shepherd dogs. The result was the Australian Shepherd.
In 1976, a single Breed Standard for the Australian Shepherd was adopted and in 1980 the two major breed clubs consolidated to become the Australian Shepherd Club of America (ASCA). Unrecognized by the American Kennel Club (AKC) at that time, ASCA not only provided a registry for the Aussie, but held conformation, obedience, agility, and working trials. Although the AKC now recognizes the Australian Shepherd, ASCA continues to provide these activities to the Australian Shepherd and is currently the largest single breed registry in the United States.
The Miniature Australian Shepherd was developed directly from the Australian Shepherd. Throughout the history of the Aussie, small (under 18") dogs can be seen in historical photographs. Many believe that the original Aussie was selectively bred larger as sheep ranching decreased and cattle ranching increased. Cattle ranchers preferred a larger dog to work the larger stock. Some Aussie owners have continued to prefer the smaller sized Aussie while others prefer the larger.
http://www.namascusa.com/about.htm
Now how cute is this? She's all grown up now, and has won a class at the Nationals to boot. She's also a hot agility dog, and still has the urge to herd. My sister's last dog, also a Mini Aussie, lit right up when she saw cattle, even though she was a city dog. The instinct is still in them.
Here's some info from the Mini Aussie Association website.
The Australian Shepherd: The history of the North American/Miniature Australian Shepherd actually begins with the history of the Australian Shepherd. Though most facts are shrouded in time, the most commonly held belief on the origins of the Aussie begin in the late 1800's when western ranchers were importing sheep from Australia. During this period the most popular sheep were being imported into Australia from the Basque regions of Spain. When the herds were shipped, their shepherds were sent with them to manage and care for the flocks on the journey. As the Australian's reputation for quality sheep grew, the demand for their sheep grew also and American ranchers began importing them. The livestock were shipped to the Americas, again accompanied by the Basque shepherds and their herding dogs. Ranchers of the American west were reportedly very impressed with the working ability of these "little blue dogs" and began interbreeding them with their own shepherd dogs. The result was the Australian Shepherd.
In 1976, a single Breed Standard for the Australian Shepherd was adopted and in 1980 the two major breed clubs consolidated to become the Australian Shepherd Club of America (ASCA). Unrecognized by the American Kennel Club (AKC) at that time, ASCA not only provided a registry for the Aussie, but held conformation, obedience, agility, and working trials. Although the AKC now recognizes the Australian Shepherd, ASCA continues to provide these activities to the Australian Shepherd and is currently the largest single breed registry in the United States.
The Miniature Australian Shepherd was developed directly from the Australian Shepherd. Throughout the history of the Aussie, small (under 18") dogs can be seen in historical photographs. Many believe that the original Aussie was selectively bred larger as sheep ranching decreased and cattle ranching increased. Cattle ranchers preferred a larger dog to work the larger stock. Some Aussie owners have continued to prefer the smaller sized Aussie while others prefer the larger.
http://www.namascusa.com/about.htm
Now how cute is this?
She's all grown up now, and has won a class at the Nationals to boot. She's also a hot agility dog, and still has the urge to herd. My sister's last dog, also a Mini Aussie, lit right up when she saw cattle, even though she was a city dog. The instinct is still in them.
tta stockdogs
Well-known member
The Miniature Australian Shepherd, North American Shepherd, North American Miniature Australian Shepherd, and/or Toy Australian Shepherd breeds are not recognized as a variety of Australian Shepherd by ASCA. The club considers such dogs to be a distinct and separate breed and will not accept them into its registry.
Comment: The club wishes to respond to the breeders of small and tiny
dogs resembling Australian Shepherds who claim they are producing a
size variety. The Aussie was never intended to be selected for size:
it was developed to be a functional working dog capable of handling
tough stock and going for miles in the back country or snow drifts.
Changing the appearance of the breed to personal aesthetic tastes
rather than suitability for work does not fulfill ASCA's mission
statement: "to preserve the Australian Shepherd as an intelligent
working dog of strong herding and guardian instincts."
www.asca.org/
all you quoted is from the association that is 'playing' off the name Australian Shepherd...so yes they make it sound as their breed is a size variation. There is no breed standard minimum size for Australian Shepherds in ASCA only a preferred size. So there is no need for people to have another Association-call them mini Aussies..except only to 'play' on size...which translates mainly to more money from people in the city wanting a small dog. There is nothing wrong with this breed except calling them mini Aussies.--they are North American Shepherds.
The pup you posted is cute
Comment: The club wishes to respond to the breeders of small and tiny
dogs resembling Australian Shepherds who claim they are producing a
size variety. The Aussie was never intended to be selected for size:
it was developed to be a functional working dog capable of handling
tough stock and going for miles in the back country or snow drifts.
Changing the appearance of the breed to personal aesthetic tastes
rather than suitability for work does not fulfill ASCA's mission
statement: "to preserve the Australian Shepherd as an intelligent
working dog of strong herding and guardian instincts."
www.asca.org/
all you quoted is from the association that is 'playing' off the name Australian Shepherd...so yes they make it sound as their breed is a size variation. There is no breed standard minimum size for Australian Shepherds in ASCA only a preferred size. So there is no need for people to have another Association-call them mini Aussies..except only to 'play' on size...which translates mainly to more money from people in the city wanting a small dog. There is nothing wrong with this breed except calling them mini Aussies.--they are North American Shepherds.
The pup you posted is cute
Kato
Well-known member
I can see this subject is along the lines of the Ford/Chevy and Pepsi/Coke debate.
V_Key
Well-known member
tta stockdogs said:
In the late 70's early 80's there was a lady in So. California buying under size Aussies.
Now THEY are trying to form (1 to 3) Miniature A S Ass. - At this time they are not recognized as a breed by AKC but are recognized by the National Stock Dog Reg. - Undersize dog may still have Aussie Papers
V_Key
Well-known member
I have a family photo from the 1920 with an Aussie in it
My dad has always had Aussies even as a kid. In the 1950's a Sheep Ranch in central Ca. got a 'Strang Looking Blue Bitch' with puppies (13) in with a load of Aussie Sheep and a Basque Herder. The Herder called her (Coolie or Koolie) Dad changed her mane to "Ding" (Dingo)
Ding was one of the best "Heeler" "in-Shute" dogs he ever had. He was running a Roping Arena in San Jose and everyone wanted her puppies. Bred to Dad Aussie Male she had 13 to 18 pups in every litter/ $50 each Dad thought he was gitt'n rich and breed her every time she came in.
Ding put her mark on 'every puppy' she had. Dad still see thoses Marks here and there
Dad later found out that she was German Koolie
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/koolie.htm
All breeds began from many; the Australian Koolie is no different. History books show that serious importations of working breeds began around the 1800s; many books on the Kelpie, Australian Cattle Dog and Stumpy refer to the influence of the Merle breed in their own breed's foundations. One such book, by author Angela Sanderson called "Australian Dogs", out by the Currawong press refers to the Australian Koolie; then called the German Collie. What is of most importance in her book is her own reference to a much earlier German writer Von Stephanitz and his book "The German Shepherd In Word and Picture" released 1925 in which he writes "The Australian grazier were sufficiently impressed with German sheep dogs to import them", he then names one of the breeds which were imported, as the German Tiger (pronounced with a long "e" not a short "i") and describes them as "long or short coated, prick eared type of Merle coloring similar to the type already found in Australia called the German Collie." ( this proves that German Tigers were imported, but it proves more importantly that the Koolie was establish and recognized by its own name before actually recorded imported Tigers arrived). There is evidence that Elizabeth Macarthur, wife of John Macarthur who began the Marino industry in Australia transported a German by the name of Joseph Pabts to her property in Camden New South Wales in 1825 to care for her flocks; Joseph arrived with his family and a number of his German working dogs, believed to be Tigers. This report indicates that Tigers could have been in Australia 100 years earlier. The earlier Tigers would have merged with other working bloodlines, most commonly the smooth coated Collies which were found readily in the southern and central regions and possessed the shorter coat desire in this hotter climate. More on the Koolie
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/koolie.htm
My dad has always had Aussies even as a kid. In the 1950's a Sheep Ranch in central Ca. got a 'Strang Looking Blue Bitch' with puppies (13) in with a load of Aussie Sheep and a Basque Herder. The Herder called her (Coolie or Koolie) Dad changed her mane to "Ding" (Dingo)
Ding was one of the best "Heeler" "in-Shute" dogs he ever had. He was running a Roping Arena in San Jose and everyone wanted her puppies. Bred to Dad Aussie Male she had 13 to 18 pups in every litter/ $50 each Dad thought he was gitt'n rich and breed her every time she came in.
Ding put her mark on 'every puppy' she had. Dad still see thoses Marks here and there
Dad later found out that she was German Koolie
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/koolie.htm
All breeds began from many; the Australian Koolie is no different. History books show that serious importations of working breeds began around the 1800s; many books on the Kelpie, Australian Cattle Dog and Stumpy refer to the influence of the Merle breed in their own breed's foundations. One such book, by author Angela Sanderson called "Australian Dogs", out by the Currawong press refers to the Australian Koolie; then called the German Collie. What is of most importance in her book is her own reference to a much earlier German writer Von Stephanitz and his book "The German Shepherd In Word and Picture" released 1925 in which he writes "The Australian grazier were sufficiently impressed with German sheep dogs to import them", he then names one of the breeds which were imported, as the German Tiger (pronounced with a long "e" not a short "i") and describes them as "long or short coated, prick eared type of Merle coloring similar to the type already found in Australia called the German Collie." ( this proves that German Tigers were imported, but it proves more importantly that the Koolie was establish and recognized by its own name before actually recorded imported Tigers arrived). There is evidence that Elizabeth Macarthur, wife of John Macarthur who began the Marino industry in Australia transported a German by the name of Joseph Pabts to her property in Camden New South Wales in 1825 to care for her flocks; Joseph arrived with his family and a number of his German working dogs, believed to be Tigers. This report indicates that Tigers could have been in Australia 100 years earlier. The earlier Tigers would have merged with other working bloodlines, most commonly the smooth coated Collies which were found readily in the southern and central regions and possessed the shorter coat desire in this hotter climate. More on the Koolie
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/koolie.htm
