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Anything From NCBA on This?

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Bill...Don't ever kid yourselves, http://www.swifthorses.com/ did more to ecourage this new found "openness and honesty" than anything.

I am sure you are an authority on all of this Bill and we should take your word for it!!
 
Tommy said:
Bill...Don't ever kid yourselves, http://www.swifthorses.com/ did more to ecourage this new found "openness and honesty" than anything.

I am sure you are an authority on all of this Bill and we should take your word for it!!

Not an authority at all but somebody on that site sure seems to be.

R-Calf, honesty and openness all in one sentence? :lol: :lol: :lol: Good one!

Be careful you don't walk into too many walls with your eyes closed that tight.
 
Bill said:
:roll:

The only reason R-Klan is now trying to be so "open and honest" is because THEY ARE BEING FORCED TO. People had enough of the many lies and deception from within and left the Klan. They were sick and tired of being lied to about membership, finances and whatever Bullard chose to tell the board and membership.

Don't ever kid yourselves, http://www.swifthorses.com/ did more to ecourage this new found "openness and honesty" than anything.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Your model of "openness and honesty" is the one hiding behind a pen name? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that's funny!
 
Sandhusker said:
Bill said:
:roll:

The only reason R-Klan is now trying to be so "open and honest" is because THEY ARE BEING FORCED TO. People had enough of the many lies and deception from within and left the Klan. They were sick and tired of being lied to about membership, finances and whatever Bullard chose to tell the board and membership.

Don't ever kid yourselves, http://www.swifthorses.com/ did more to ecourage this new found "openness and honesty" than anything.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Your model of "openness and honesty" is the one hiding behind a pen name? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that's funny!

Ahhhhhhh but I don't fudge any numbers or twist and spin to get anyone to send me money and BULLeeeeeeeeeeeeve like Montanastan Bill!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
OT:
Used bulls have to be tested extensively and go thru a quarantine...

Non-virgin bulls and bulls over 24 months have to be tested 3 times, 1 week intervals with no exposure to cows during the testing period.
 
Hanta Yo said:
OT:
Used bulls have to be tested extensively and go thru a quarantine...

Non-virgin bulls and bulls over 24 months have to be tested 3 times, 1 week intervals with no exposure to cows during the testing period.

Yeah- my old Vet buddy was telling me the other day that he was at a meeting and the State is changing the rule on groups of non-virgin or older bulls-- will only need one test if they all are clean...Not sure what they are going to consider "groups"...He said elseways the testing/quarantine on individuals (3 tests) is quite pricey and can only be done by certain Vets- and he is not set up to do it....
 
Numbers weren't fudged, Bill. Family memberships were simply consolidated. Sorry if the truth isn't as juicy as the rumor. That's generally how it works.
 
The AMI is working to open our borders to beef from around the world. Do you know why they are doing that, MRJ? I'll tell you; It is because they want to be able to buy cheaper beef from other sources so they can either drive down the price of US beef or not buy it at all. Now, how does that mutually benefit US producers?[/quote]

Sandhusker...What proof, if any, do you have to back your statement? The statement sounds like another true-blooded R-Calf baseless opinion. The latter orgainization is history. You picked a real winner Sandhusker!!!
 
agman said:
The AMI is working to open our borders to beef from around the world. Do you know why they are doing that, MRJ? I'll tell you; It is because they want to be able to buy cheaper beef from other sources so they can either drive down the price of US beef or not buy it at all. Now, how does that mutually benefit US producers?

Sandhusker...What proof, if any, do you have to back your statement? The statement sounds like another true-blooded R-Calf baseless opinion. The latter orgainization is history. You picked a real winner Sandhusker!!![/quote]

----------------------------------------

Hey Agman- Wheres all this beef that you said would be going to Japan - been how many years now Agman-- were you talking about 2010-eh... :???: :lol: :lol: Your source didn't seem to give you very good info about the Japanese as they don't seem to want it as hot as you thought...

Agman- why is Tyson, Texas Feeders and their partner George Soros sticking so much money into Argentina feedlots and slaughter plants?..
 
agman said:
The AMI is working to open our borders to beef from around the world. Do you know why they are doing that, MRJ? I'll tell you; It is because they want to be able to buy cheaper beef from other sources so they can either drive down the price of US beef or not buy it at all. Now, how does that mutually benefit US producers?

Sandhusker...What proof, if any, do you have to back your statement? The statement sounds like another true-blooded R-Calf baseless opinion. The latter orgainization is history. You picked a real winner Sandhusker!!![/quote]

Agman, who is the pres. of the AMI?
 
agman said:
The AMI is working to open our borders to beef from around the world. Do you know why they are doing that, MRJ? I'll tell you; It is because they want to be able to buy cheaper beef from other sources so they can either drive down the price of US beef or not buy it at all. Now, how does that mutually benefit US producers?

Sandhusker...What proof, if any, do you have to back your statement? The statement sounds like another true-blooded R-Calf baseless opinion. The latter orgainization is history. You picked a real winner Sandhusker!!![/quote]

You telling me that the AMI is not working to get our borders open? You're like your boy, SH - demanding proof of the obvious.
 
Oldtimer said:
Hanta Yo said:
OT:
Used bulls have to be tested extensively and go thru a quarantine...

Non-virgin bulls and bulls over 24 months have to be tested 3 times, 1 week intervals with no exposure to cows during the testing period.

Yeah- my old Vet buddy was telling me the other day that he was at a meeting and the State is changing the rule on groups of non-virgin or older bulls-- will only need one test if they all are clean...Not sure what they are going to consider "groups"...He said elseways the testing/quarantine on individuals (3 tests) is quite pricey and can only be done by certain Vets- and he is not set up to do it....


YUP! It's gonna be a pain in the arse for Brand Inspectors!!!!
 
Sad, but true. When the adults are busy, 'boys' tend to get into trouble!

OT, what, specifically do you mean when you say "NCBA fell into corporate world of fraud and deception to make a fast buck"? What was the "fraud" or "deception", and how was the "fast buck" made? What "corporation" was involved? When did all this occur? And where?

You are totally confused on who is supporting "free enterprise". It is NCBA, while R-CALF is calling for government to perpetrate the 'fraud and deceit' of a COOL label that does nothing for beef safety, only provides a marketing ploy.

Further, NCBA is not trying to force Korean consumers to eat our beef against their will, but to force that government to ALLOW the Korean consumers to make their own decision in the marketplace!

Surely by now, OT, you KNOW that the Policy/membership division of NCBA does NOT contract with the CBB, so why do you persist in that lie?

It is the Federation of State Beef Councils division, comprised of cattle producer representatives of most state cattle organizations, in reality, the national organization of the various state Beef Councils, which contracts with the Cattlemens Beef Board to work on Beef Checkoff programs funded by the checkoff.

The two divisions of NCBA do share office space and staff, but each pays their own share. Staff members account for their time in 15 minute increments to assure proper accounting and separation of funds.

OT, you are caught in an absolute lie when you claim NCBA is connected with the Beef Mobile. An entirely different organization, the National Livestock Producers Association (NLPA) has a contract with the Cattlemens Beef Board to operate the Beef Mobile. NCBA is not involved in any way with it........other than to occasionally say "great job, guys and gals"!

The Beef Mobile goes to some events where cattle producers gather to tell them what the beef checkoff actually does. Sad but true, there is so much misinformation out that many ranchers really do not know what checkoff money is used for. Another use of Beef Mobile is to communicate with consumers and distribute checkoff funded information about beef.

I'm pleased that some NCBA members, and some current and former state Beef Council members/local cattle producers do show up at such events to support the NLPA efforts in promoting beef and the Beef Checkoff!

I very seriously doubt you have ever heard any NCBA Policy/Dues member say that division had developed anything. Nor have you ever heard the Beef Mobile representative try to sell NCBA memberships.

It is possible a state or local organization or individual NCBA member was there at the same time and trying to sign up new members. Many NCBA members carry membership applications all the time, wherever we go and proudly solicit new members.

As to your accusation that Monte Reese has admitted to you personally that NCBA mis-uses checkoff funds, I felt that demanded checking with him.

He does not know who you are, does not recall whether he ever had any conversation with you, or not. The closest thing he can think of that he would have said may be something he has said publicly on several occasions. Monte Reese has stated that (and I emphasize key words) "RESENTMENT of NCBA's POLICY POSITIONS and it's involvement in the Beef Checkoff is the primary reason that led to LMA's litigation.

Monte has also stated many times "we need to be careful to always acknowledge Checkoff funding for any project NCBA or any other contractor manages. That is Beef Board policy. NCBA has not always been careful in the past to make sure to mention checkoff funding. [MRJ adds: I believe that is STILL the Federation division, because it is the one with the contract, NOT the Policy/dues/membership div. At any rate, the little red 'checkmark' insignia has been developed and is used to identify anything done with checkoff money.]

Monte also stated "I've never agreed with anyone who said NCBA controls the Beef Checkoff or mis-uses it. To the contrary, I remember the in-efficiencies and duplication that occurred before NCBA was formed and I believe the creaton of NCBA and a unified industry plan is primary reason we finally saw beef demand start increasing in the late '90's".

OT, you really should check with the CBB before you make such foolish mistakes and rash, unsubstantiated claims against NCBA. The CBB controls the national share of the checkoff $, while the Federation of State Beef Councils div. controls the 50 cents that is the state share. NCBA controls nothing of the checkoff, and is funded by other means. It is all strictly audited and verified by USDA to assure compliance with the law creating the Beef Checkoff.

MRJ
 
Got an answer from the NCBA pertaining to the low sperm count research that was in all the papers.

Here's the reply:

"We continue monitoring media coverage of the study and responding as
appropriate to help provide balance for beef without creating more
attention for this study."
 
MRJ said:
Sad, but true. When the adults are busy, 'boys' tend to get into trouble!

OT, what, specifically do you mean when you say "NCBA fell into corporate world of fraud and deception to make a fast buck"? What was the "fraud" or "deception", and how was the "fast buck" made? What "corporation" was involved? When did all this occur? And where?

Allowing Canadian, Uruguayan, Mexican etal beef to be labeled with a USDA inspected stamp and passed off to US consumers as US product by packers/retailers is deception and fraud--Period.....

You are totally confused on who is supporting "free enterprise". It is NCBA, while R-CALF is calling for government to perpetrate the 'fraud and deceit' of a COOL label that does nothing for beef safety, only provides a marketing ploy.

Further, NCBA is not trying to force Korean consumers to eat our beef against their will, but to force that government to ALLOW the Korean consumers to make their own decision in the marketplace!

Surely by now, OT, you KNOW that the Policy/membership division of NCBA does NOT contract with the CBB, so why do you persist in that lie?

It is the Federation of State Beef Councils division, comprised of cattle producer representatives of most state cattle organizations, in reality, the national organization of the various state Beef Councils, which contracts with the Cattlemens Beef Board to work on Beef Checkoff programs funded by the checkoff.

The two divisions of NCBA do share office space and staff, but each pays their own share. Staff members account for their time in 15 minute increments to assure proper accounting and separation of funds.

OT, you are caught in an absolute lie when you claim NCBA is connected with the Beef Mobile. An entirely different organization, the National Livestock Producers Association (NLPA) has a contract with the Cattlemens Beef Board to operate the Beef Mobile. NCBA is not involved in any way with it........other than to occasionally say "great job, guys and gals"!


The Beef Mobile goes to some events where cattle producers gather to tell them what the beef checkoff actually does. Sad but true, there is so much misinformation out that many ranchers really do not know what checkoff money is used for. Another use of Beef Mobile is to communicate with consumers and distribute checkoff funded information about beef.

I'm pleased that some NCBA members, and some current and former state Beef Council members/local cattle producers do show up at such events to support the NLPA efforts in promoting beef and the Beef Checkoff!

I very seriously doubt you have ever heard any NCBA Policy/Dues member say that division had developed anything. Nor have you ever heard the Beef Mobile representative try to sell NCBA memberships.

It is possible a state or local organization or individual NCBA member was there at the same time and trying to sign up new members. Many NCBA members carry membership applications all the time, wherever we go and proudly solicit new members.

I have sat right there at the beefmobile appearances and listened to a NCBA President and several others preach about how NCBA did this for that for folks- be if they were preaching as an individual or as a member I don't know- since you criticize everything an R-CALF member says as an R-CALF statement, I assume when an NCBA officer speaks it is also NCBA speaking- or do you have a dual standard :???: :roll: ....I also watched a local Cowbelles organization fall apart and die- no longer existent because the politics of NCBA got involved after the checkoff came to be...

As to your accusation that Monte Reese has admitted to you personally that NCBA mis-uses checkoff funds, I felt that demanded checking with him.

He does not know who you are, does not recall whether he ever had any conversation with you, or not. The closest thing he can think of that he would have said may be something he has said publicly on several occasions. Monte Reese has stated that (and I emphasize key words) "RESENTMENT of NCBA's POLICY POSITIONS and it's involvement in the Beef Checkoff is the primary reason that led to LMA's litigation.

Monte has also stated many times "we need to be careful to always acknowledge Checkoff funding for any project NCBA or any other contractor manages. That is Beef Board policy. NCBA has not always been careful in the past to make sure to mention checkoff funding. [MRJ adds: I believe that is STILL the Federation division, because it is the one with the contract, NOT the Policy/dues/membership div. At any rate, the little red 'checkmark' insignia has been developed and is used to identify anything done with checkoff money.]

Monte also stated "I've never agreed with anyone who said NCBA controls the Beef Checkoff or mis-uses it. To the contrary, I remember the in-efficiencies and duplication that occurred before NCBA was formed and I believe the creaton of NCBA and a unified industry plan is primary reason we finally saw beef demand start increasing in the late '90's".

Monte either lies- Or he has a bad memory- tell him to check his phone records...He is the one that called me twice to return calls on questions- and sent me copys of some the Checkoff budget (remember those posts I made with the contract implementation fee about a year ago- I have the book/minutes right here titled the Beef Promotion Operating Committee, dated Sept 21-22, 2005, with NCBA getting awarded almost all the Checkoff Promotion Contracts)- they came directly out of it....Either he's playing the NCBA political game- or he's lying- because he flat told me he was aware of the problems that he had received complaints about- said he had brought the problems to NCBA's attention- was aware there were still problems- and said that it could be a major factor with losing a suit against the checkoff...Too me he sounded like someone that couldn't speak out against the folks that control your paycheck... :roll:


OT, you really should check with the CBB before you make such foolish mistakes and rash, unsubstantiated claims against NCBA. The CBB controls the national share of the checkoff $, while the Federation of State Beef Councils div. controls the 50 cents that is the state share. NCBA controls nothing of the checkoff, and is funded by other means. It is all strictly audited and verified by USDA to assure compliance with the law creating the Beef Checkoff.

Just like NCBA has equal representation for each member- each state.. :roll: :wink: :lol: :lol:

MRJ
 
MRJ, "You are totally confused on who is supporting "free enterprise". It is NCBA, ...."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Tell that to Bill Fielding! :lol: :lol: :lol:

MRJ, "Further, NCBA is not trying to force Korean consumers to eat our beef against their will, but to force that government to ALLOW the Korean consumers to make their own decision in the marketplace! "

What about those consumers who have made the decision they would like their beef BSE tested? Did NCBA forget about their wishes and that potential market?

How would you react if a foreign government was trying to force our government to do anything? Did NCBA learn that from the George W. Bush School of International Diplomacy?
 
I'm trying to get on the road, so won't take time to answer every 'nit' you guys are 'picking' at this time.....later if I get to it.

Mike, at this point in the life of that story, what do you think 'NCBA' should be doing?

Watching and monitoring reaction to such weak 'research' seems the best reaction, IMO. Better that it die of it's own weaknesses. If it starts to gain momentum, that is the time to counter it with time and effort (which equals tightly budgeted checkoff money needlessly spent on a non-issue) to show peer reviewed sound science to the contrary. My guess is that there ARE some state checkoff efforts to disseminate info countering that story, too. That will be communicated to national level after the fact. That is how volunteers in the states continue and expand the value of checkoff dollars.

Sandhusker, just for you I checked out your claims that NCBA never opposed anything AMI wanted. FACT: NCBA opposed opening the Canadian border to beef and cattle over 30 months when it was learned USDA had drafted a rule to do just that in 2005. Johanns made the decision to limit the border opening to beef and live cattle 30 months and younger after talking to NCBA officers. If not for NCBA's intervention, directly contrary to AMI , the border would have opened to the older animals two years ago. POINT TWO: AMI wants mandatory cattle ID. NCBA supports voluntary, market driven ID and has helped bring USDA around to that same position. BTW, you will have to refresh my memory on "Bill Fielding". I'm sure I've heard his name and problem, but don't have instant recall on details. Re. BSE tests used by anyone to give their consumers "BSE tested BEEF"........are there tests currently on the market

OT, sorry, I forgot your obsession with consumers being too stupid to understand a label reading "INSPECTED BY USDA" does not mean "PRODUCT OF USA".

How am I supposed to know what caused your local Cowbelles to fall apart? It is a WOMENS organization. Those are notoriously volatile, IMO. That is why I'm no longer active in them. I do appreciate the fact that SD CattleWomen, and the Cattlemens' Auxilliary do a lot of good working and contracting with the state and national checkoffs and the national CattleWomen. They grew up and changed from Cowbelles to CattleWomen and hardly missed a beat, though they do now have bigger budgets due to the checkoff leaders recognizing the value of their efforts. Many of them have also served on state and national Beef Councils and the CBB. Many states have very successful CattleWomen groups, and I'm very sure MT has some remaining, too.

Whatever do you mean by "just like NCBA has equal representation for each member-each state"? Do you want a state with 20 NCBA members to have the same representation as a state with 100 members? I wouldn't, not even if I was in the 20 member state. If something else, guess you will have to spell it out a little better for me.

Gotta leave.

MRJ
 
MRJ, are you referring to that 11 point directive that was quickly reversed by leadership in your producer driven org? :lol:
 
Sandhusker said:
Here I thought the NCBA just parroted what the AMI said, now they're simply letting the AMI talk for them! I guess it's more efficient, cuts out the middleman and reduces chances for mistakes.. :lol:

Talk about cutting out the middlemen to reduce chances of mistakes. Is that why Bill is doing the R-CALF books and writing legal briefs? Wouldn't want those accountants and lawyers making mistakes now would you Sandhusker? :wink:
 
Oldtimer said:
Bull Puckey sw-- R-CALF has called for labeling and promoting USA born and raised BEEF- to give it an identity and promotion in this expanding globalist trade-- while NCBA has crawled into the back pockets of the AMI- and Tyson/Cargil/Swift/etal's generic beef and flipflopped on the M-COOL....The same M-COOL that they started and even testified to Congress that their surveys showed 80% of the public wanted....R-CALF remained open and honest with consumers while NCBA fell into the Corporate worlds use of fraud and deception to make a fast buck....

Makes me wonder about a group that doesn't even want to identify or promote their own countries product.... :???:

They have called for the USDA to allow Creekstone and others to do private testing to reopen the Asian markets and regain confidence/demand in US beef - while NCBA fell into AMI's Big Corporate backing and fought against it- even while spouting that every day we don't export to Asia we producers lose $175 per head... Shows who they really support :roll: :(
Instead of believing in and supporting the free enterprise they again support Tyson/Cargil/Swift/etal... And now I see they think they can force Korea to take back US beef- but can't get it thru their heads that if the folks don't want to buy it- it doesn't matter what the government does...

And the only reason you see NCBA's name tied to beef promotions is because most are things they are doing under Beef Checkoff funded contracts or are taking credit for since they have controlled the checkoff for so long....

I used to laugh when the Beefmobile would show up at an event- and all the NCBA muckey mucks would gather around and take credit for everything the checkoff was doing- "look at this product WE developed" and try to recruit new members :roll: :( :mad: Then when the heat starts coming on NCBA for using checkoff dollars-MRJ, you, and Hanta come along and say that NCBA doesn't control the Checkoff and haven't misused it, and this doesn't happen- but I saw it-- And Monte Reese admitted to me that he was aware it has been/was happening, is wrong, and if anything kills the checkoff it will be NCBA's misuse that does it......

How much good beef promotion was R-CALF doing when Cebull wrote in his R-CALF/USDA ruling that said all beef coming from a BSE affected country presents a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH? only to have BSE found in the US native herd

How much Good Beef Promotion is R-CALF doing when you tell Beef consumer you need M'COOL so they can tell what is Safe US beef from the Higher Risk Canadian Beef, when they do not have a way of telling now and might not for a year or so? As a fellow Montana man told me in an email
It distresses me to see beef producers and organizations emphasizing how some beef may not be safe to eat. What can we possible gain by creating a doubt in a consumers mind, about WHICH of the beef packages in the cooler are the ones they should pick so that their family is safe? If the reason for MCOOL is to help consumers decide which beef is good, safe domestic…and which is bad, unsafe, foreign…then sooner or later those consumers are going to just go with the chicken instead, because they can't recall hearing that much in the news about how bad foreign chicken kills people.
Good Chicken promotion Oldtimer but I can't say it does much for Beef.

How much good Beef Promotion is R-CALF doing when they tell everyone that will listen that the US has loopholes in the US SYSTEM that prevents them from being protected from BSE in Imported cattle when the US has BSE in their native herd? What is protecting them from Native BSE OLDTIMER?????

How much good beef promotion was being done when R-CALF told consumers that the agency that insures food safety, The USDA, doesn't care about food safety?

How Much Good Beef Promotion is being done when you spout those that process the cattle into beef, The Packers, don't care about food safety?

How much Good Beef Promotion was being done when R-CALF told the government don't burden us with traceback just label the imported beef and the rest will be US by default? all this said was don't make us take responsibility for the beef we produce, real confidence builder when BSE was found in the US and the USDA had no way of finding the birthplace of the infected cow wasn't it?

BTW Oldtimer how much good beef promotion is going to be done when the US consumer realizes that Creekstone is 100% testing for the Asian market and not for the US consumers?

Promoting Beef is not meant to scare the hell out of consumer Oldtimer it is suppose to give them confidence in the industry that provides them with that beef they are eating. :wink:
 

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