April is the New May !!!

[Northern Rancher]

Were not supposed to start on the older cows till May but thanks to Original Prankster one of our bucking bulls were already going-had a couple yesterday. The calves aren't all that bad-I guess your getting the max hybrid vigour possible-the sad commentary on some Angus cattle is those Brahma crosses winter better. But by god keep pumping those milk epd's up there. I've never used some of the breed marvels for milk but I know how frail the wrong kind of plus 20 milk cattle can be. We ran exotic cow for a long time here and I'll be damned if I'm going to run Angus that I've got to treat better than Charolais. On another note cow prices are a nice surprise-I shipped an old half simmy cow yesterday-the biggest cow I own-she weighed 1305 and I got over $600 for her about $200 more than breds were bringing this fall. She was 16 years old and had twins last year so didn't owe tooo much of a board tab-a direct daughter of Irish Black Knight out of an old Nichols Landmark L56 cow.

 

[Big Swede]

This may have been brought up I another thread NR, but what kind of milk numbers do you consider too much for calving on grass. I've been in the mid 20's for years but am now thinking that the mid teens would be enough. What do you think? I cull on udders pretty hard but I'm sure a few more will fall out of the herd because of too much milk. Same question goes out to you too BRG and anyone else with an opinion.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Udders tend to fail more to poor structure than too much milk-I caution on the milk more on cows not being able to take care of themselves shape wise if they produce too much. I tend to cut things off at 20 which is probably a bit too much even then-it's getting harder and harder to find bulls to use. I'm pretty lucky to have a purebred outfit I deal with that lets me use their bulls A'I-they have the same philosophy of cattle raising I do so there genetics work good here. I'd say an ideal milk epd is plus 15 at most but I've seen some pretty darn useful cows bred from bulls with a lot less. I'd rather have the odd calf wean a bit green than try and make a living off a bunch of pseudodairy cows. Black used to be synonymous with thrifty good using cattle it's sure not anymore-there are still good Angus out there but caveat emptor is starting to rule the day.

 

[High Plains]

Heck Northern, I can see why you're hard on Angus cattle in general. There are a lot of those slab-sided kind out there that don't have any thickness to them, along with some other associated issues that you and others on this forum have pointed out. I think that the big problem here is that a lot of folks that are unhappy with the kind of Angus that are out there are just not scrutinizing enough. Not saying that about you, but after all, when you buy the bull or the straw of semen you have nobody to blame but the guy that watches you shave in the morning. Some folks aren't scrutinizing enough or don't have the ability or time to really get down to selecting cattle. I'm no smarter than anybody else, but I sure see lots of folks just blindly buying calving ease or marbling or whatever. We've almost done too good a job in the industry of preaching numbers. There are some really good Angus sires today that do a lot of things right, they just might not be in the top 10% of the breed for any specific trait. When it's all said and done they might be the best combination of functional phenotype, moderate milk, and still have the right calving ease and growth to be worthwhile. Gotta match phenotype with those numbers. It dang sure can be done. I'd almost like to start a bull-buying business where I could visit with ranchers about their needs and go over some data, whatever, and then go buy a bull for them for a small fee. That would be a ton of fun and I'd be doing the rancher a service at a time of year when they don't have much time to spare. Probably would be a hard idea to market because lots of folks think that they have a better eye than the next person, etc., etc. Too much pride to trust someone else with the decision, maybe. I still think that would be a cool service and I think I could do a decent job of it.

The other rant that I shouldn't get started on is the young and unproven bulls that are always hitting the A.I. studs every year. They're unproven with no progeny data until they've been injected across the continent. I can get just as excited as the next guy when I see the next great yearling bull, but we should really slow down a little before we reach for the A.I. straw.

Caveat emptor is so fitting, but you really can't paint the whole breed with one brush. (that's a little black-hided joke there) If I went shopping for a Ford automobile today I sure wouldn't just buy a Ford. Only a few models would truly suit my needs and some models have been lemons while others have been great. The better I match my needs up with price and dealer, the better success I'll have.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

HP

 

[Northern Rancher]

I've order bought a lot of bulls of many breeds over the years-the best order you get is 'Just make sure he's worth what you pay.' It takes a bit of practice to put together a string of bulls for people. I can usually get their bulls bought for less than they budgeted. It used to be I'd get my parent companies catalogue and the competitors for that matter and at least half the bulls were what I'd use-not the case any more. I feel I have the right to be hard on Angus because 90% of my cattle are Angus based and probably 75% of my A'I customers-I guess my point is just being black isn't quite good enough. The sage commercial A'I outfits don't use bulls till the purebred guys are done with all the pomp and circumstance-they usually get a proven bull at a more competitive price. Nothing makes me see red quicker than some PB breeder of any breed pumping me as to what the 'hot' bull is-not really looking at strengthening his herd with that attitude.

 

[Big Swede]

I have been buying my Angus bulls from a commercial herd that scrutinizes and puts more selection pressure than most purebred operations that I know of. They spend most of the year analyzing and deciding which matings work and which ones didn't. If a bull doesn't prove himself they will get rid him even if they have spent a lot of money on him. The ones that do prove themselves get used heavily AI. Being that critical of their cattle is such a benefit to me because I let them make all the mistakes and when they find something that works they let me know. I'm very lucky to be able to tap into their program.

 

[leanin' H]

I am glad I am not alone in really looking hard at bulls and trying to find balance for traits i think are imporatant. I spent a month pouring over A.I. websites and the big outfits before deciding on a bull to use. I like to go my own way and not follow the trendy picks. That comes from being a hard-headed dutchman! :wink: And i look extra hard at cattle that will work in our desert ranges. Milk numbers over 20 are hard for me to handle as you give up longevity and ease to breed back for a little extra weight on a weaner. I'll take cows who produce every year, breed back, and stay in good flesh on not much groceries over a 50# heaveir calf come October. And in want YW and WW numbers that aren't off the scale either. Sure the weight on calves is nice but we keep a lot of our heifers and that makes bigger framed cows over time. Just my thoughts and to each thier own! :wink: FYI, the semen I bought is from bull #13103836.
If ya get a minute, look at him and tell me what ya think!