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Arizona big ranch country morning

I got a buddy up in south eastern Montana who tells of a neighbor who does about the same. His reasoning is that the cows will eat all the sagebrush and every type of grass. then with the 22 month rest, the grass has a cahnce to outgrow th sagebrush. My buddy claims he has more grass than anyone else and the cattle always look good and he runs more per acre than anyone else.

I know that grass doesn't grow in my corrals because of overgrazing but because of over hoof action. but if I keep cattle out of them for a couple years, it's amazing all the grass that will grow.

With Managed Intensive Grazing, you are basicly mimicing what people do with mowers and swathers when they cut their hay fields and meadows, but you are also fertilizing with the cows manure and urine and farming a little with the hoof action. You can also knock back the poorer types of grass because the livestock learn to eat what is in front of them and not be so picky. It's one of the reasons I prefer yearlings as they don't establish what types of grass they like and don't like, as an old cow who has lived on this place all her life will do.

Problem most folks have with it, is that they chew it all off and then don't allow enough time for the grass roots to get power and regrow without harming the grass.

It takes more work, but I can run more livestock and have more grass, tho' I haven't got plumb up to speed yet. Biggest problem around here is getting the water to where they can all water easily.
 
Great thing about ranching is there is not set way to do things.
We use three 1.5 section pastures for breeding. We run about 300 in one for about 8 weeks then they don't return for two years. We then turn the cows into a larger pasture in September for dormant season grazing. That lasts until winter closes in to hard. Two years ago we ran cows until April when we brought them out to calve. Most years it's January. We do use a calving pasture pretty hard but try to rest the other fields that we use to get thru the year. As my Dad says" If you have old grass you will have new grass.
 
With the forest service breathin down our neck we kinda have to do what they want done , this ranch would produce way better if they would let us jerk all the fence out except the outside perimeter fence , and run it a winter country and summer country kinda deal , our summer country is pines and oak brush , our winter country is cedars and lots of grass and cliff rose and shrub brush these cows can live on if we get a good snow . But the way they have it set up is we are in some pastures for 30 days some for 60 days and one big winter pasture for 90 days , now thats alot of movin and seems like just when you get all your remnants gatherd you are movin pastures again . These cows have their " spot " they like to be , be it in the summer country or winter country and some of these ole cows will do what ever it takes to get to their " spot " and you are always trailin them up and drivin them 10 miles to the pasture your in . If they would just slack off and let us try it with just the gates open they would see these cows use the country alot better . But thats the govt. for you they dont wanna make things easy they gott have somthin to keep 50 people on the payroll . We always have good feed were ever we are goin these ole cows know the country and know how to work it and packin salt to the right places helps get them to work them ridges with all that oak brush and them points with the good grass , they just wont let us stay long enough to show them how good the country could look .

About the gettin water to your cattle why cant you build dirt tanks ?
 
azcowpuncher said:
With the forest service breathin down our neck we kinda have to do what they want done , this ranch would produce way better if they would let us jerk all the fence out except the outside perimeter fence , and run it a winter country and summer country kinda deal , our summer country is pines and oak brush , our winter country is cedars and lots of grass and cliff rose and shrub brush these cows can live on if we get a good snow . But the way they have it set up is we are in some pastures for 30 days some for 60 days and one big winter pasture for 90 days , now thats alot of movin and seems like just when you get all your remnants gatherd you are movin pastures again . These cows have their " spot " they like to be , be it in the summer country or winter country and some of these ole cows will do what ever it takes to get to their " spot " and you are always trailin them up and drivin them 10 miles to the pasture your in . If they would just slack off and let us try it with just the gates open they would see these cows use the country alot better . But thats the govt. for you they dont wanna make things easy they gott have somthin to keep 50 people on the payroll . We always have good feed were ever we are goin these ole cows know the country and know how to work it and packin salt to the right places helps get them to work them ridges with all that oak brush and them points with the good grass , they just wont let us stay long enough to show them how good the country could look .

About the gettin water to your cattle why cant you build dirt tanks ?
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Its not only the government with these Idea's we have a dozen landlords here and each one has their own rules the worst rule is NO COWS after Oct 1st.They all deer hunt and that rates higher than the Bible to them.I stockpile grass on my own ground so I can graze into winter.Last year we got 3" of rain on new years day which froze on contact so that pretty much ended any grazeing.Nothing ends grazeing like two foot of snow and 30 below....
 
azcowpuncher said:
About the gettin water to your cattle why cant you build dirt tanks ?
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We have quite a few, but have had no water to run into them for about 4 years now and this is a gravely, sandy loam, with a little clay in spots.

We have wells and we have been building pipelines. But they cost money. And then if you go to fencing, you have to figure it out so that they can use the same water tank from several pastures.

I found out quite a few years ago that if you move your cattle at least a half a mile, every 5 days or so, you will almost eliminate the flies, but it isn't always easy to do.

Hey, if it was easy, everybody would be a rancher or cowboy. :D
 
azcowpuncher said:
He lets it rest 22 months ?? he dont have many cows then . cause were i am now we are at just under 200 hundred sections , and we run 1200 mother cows including bulls maybe give or take a 100 head , and we can go back in these pastures in 8 months and get 90 days out of them again . That forest permitts we are keepin them happy , i would like to stay a little longer in these pastures with out so many moves but its their game . But when we move out of a pasture , i havent seen a usage sheet ina while but i bet we are not using even 60 percent of the pasture's potential .
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his AI herd is 360 don't know how many in his other cow herd pluse he has a nice cavy of brood mares and colts. He said after the spring rains we got he could of run 5000 steers this summer to help use the grass.
 
We dont pump water into our dirt tanks they just catch water from the rain , and snow melt off . Most places in northern Arizona its to deeo to dig any well s to expensive to drill down 1000 feet for water ha ha .

Yeah Denny we have the pleasure of gettin to prowl around on our country during hunting season , so you just kinda pray those hunters know your a cowboy a nd horse and not an elk or deer , so we make it a habit of not riding a buckskin horse unless you dont plan to do anything till the sun is pretty high .
 
A few miles west of us is the gumbo. It is a large area with mostly clay for the soil. Good grasses for grazing, but dang few trees. Water is at about 3500 feet, if you can find it. It's mostly summer range as it's too tuff to live on. when it rains and the sun comes out it sticks to everything, and I mean everything. I've seen cows with feet as big as platters and mudballs on their tails the size of softballs. But it does grow good strong grass with some flat cactus and a scattering of rocks. Only water is dams, ort dirt tanks, as you call them. When we've had a long dry spell, they get pretty sour. And the gumbo is always a little too hot, or cold. Never seen a perfect day on it!

If you are in a bad situation, the comment always is, "Rather than this, I'd like to be on the gumbo with 3 flat tires!" :shock:

We can hit good water here at about 60 to 80 feet. This country is a little too good for ranching and a little too dry for farming. :D

Most figure on 20 to 25 acres per cow/calf unit for a year, right around here and about 40 to 50 acres to summer a cow on the gumbo.
 
Jinglebob said:
A few miles west of us is the gumbo. It is a large area with mostly clay for the soil. Good grasses for grazing, but dang few trees. Water is at about 3500 feet, if you can find it. It's mostly summer range as it's too tuff to live on. when it rains and the sun comes out it sticks to everything, and I mean everything. I've seen cows with feet as big as platters and mudballs on their tails the size of softballs. But it does grow good strong grass with some flat cactus and a scattering of rocks. Only water is dams, ort dirt tanks, as you call them. When we've had a long dry spell, they get pretty sour. And the gumbo is always a little too hot, or cold. Never seen a perfect day on it!

If you are in a bad situation, the comment always is, "Rather than this, I'd like to be on the gumbo with 3 flat tires!" :shock:

We can hit good water here at about 60 to 80 feet. This country is a little too good for ranching and a little too dry for farming. :D

Most figure on 20 to 25 acres per cow/calf unit for a year, right around here and about 40 to 50 acres to summer a cow on the gumbo.
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How much does an acre of land sell for around your home place JB and how much on the gumbo?
 
Red Robin said:
How much does an acre of land sell for around your home place JB and how much on the gumbo?
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A place just a few miles west of us sold at auction last winter. real similar land.

It was in 4 parcels and totaled about 10,000 acres. It averaged $396.

The home placew with the best protection and buildings, about 3000 acres brougth around $ 560.

Another chunch that is on the western side of the gumbo and had river frontage sold for $360 or there abouts.

I think you could by a ranch in this country if it was for sale for close to $400 an acres and that would run a pair on 20 to 25 acres.

Right now, there is none for sale.

Most are from 2500 acres to 5000 acres.

That is the problem with expanding. You've got to be in real good shape to be able to dpouble or quadruple your place. used to ber, you could buy smaller chunks that were easier to make the payments on. But not anymore.
 
Yeah i tried to do my own thing once but if you aint got some money its hard , i had a ranch leased here it was 40 sections was pasturing cattle for a the feed lot man here in arizona , well i should have thought things thru cause i needed to day work to supplement my income and all he sent me was old cattle wich was not the agreement but you guys know how that goes , so i had to be there to keep them cattle on water and docterd cause they were all droughted out and on the lift and on good feed but not gainin . but anyway long story short i made a little money but worked 8 days a week ha ha , wore out some good horses and a good pickup , stretched alot of ropes and broke some ribs , but no more i am happy just a po dunk cowpuncher livin in a camp in the middle of no were ha ha . I dont mind runnin a crew but dont want my own deal at all , i am happy workin for someone else . It would have been better if i would have had the money to pay another man but it worked out ok .
 
Ain't nuthin' wrong with workin' for someone. In the end, we all do. Either the banker, tax man or for our kids, to pass it on too.

There is lots more important things than how big a place you own or how much money you make.

If I could find a place to manage, I'd lease this place to my son and let a younger man take the weight of making it pay. Maybe if I help him get a paid for herd, then he can take it over and make a better go of it than I have and I'll just build saddles and ride on his cattle for him, while he does all the hard work. :)

I know that there is a lot less stress and risk, runnin' other peoples cattle.

I'd sure like to have a stocked up place with all my own cattle, but so far, it's eluded me. Maybe I just don't want it bad enough to do what I'd have to do, to have that.

I just hate havin' a banker second guessing me. :wink:
 
Yeah i hear ya my family homesteaded a place in arizona in parks and they had it for a long time but when a catholic priest gave my grandfather lukemia thru a blood transfusion and my grandad died the bank took it from them . But ohh well ya know that kind of thing happens , but i am happy just punchin cows ya know . I have 30 head of my own that i run on my brothers lease , and thats fine and dandy with me .
 
that is sure some pretty country. I bet you don't have to mow your yard every week like we do here. If you could found some cows that ate rocks you would be a millionaire :D :D thanks for sharing the pictures with us!
 
Jinglebob said:
Red Robin said:
How much does an acre of land sell for around your home place JB and how much on the gumbo?
Click to expand...

A place just a few miles west of us sold at auction last winter. real similar land.

It was in 4 parcels and totaled about 10,000 acres. It averaged $396.

The home placew with the best protection and buildings, about 3000 acres brougth around $ 560.

Another chunch that is on the western side of the gumbo and had river frontage sold for $360 or there abouts.

I think you could by a ranch in this country if it was for sale for close to $400 an acres and that would run a pair on 20 to 25 acres.

Right now, there is none for sale.

Most are from 2500 acres to 5000 acres.

That is the problem with expanding. You've got to be in real good shape to be able to dpouble or quadruple your place. used to ber, you could buy smaller chunks that were easier to make the payments on. But not anymore.
Click to expand...
Thanks JB. Western hard grass realestate is pretty expensive per AU when compared to Missouri or SE Kansas or even here in North Arkansas. You certainly have a lot fewer inputs though.
 
Christ, you can by farm ground, and I mean 200 bushel corn ground that would be cheaper per AU if you put it under grass (Not recommending it or anything as the packing of critters would get pretty intense).. Than again that was the general impression we had of land out west in many areas, just to darn costly (And so is this 200 bushel corn ground around here btw).
 
down here pasture went from 3000 to 25,000 in about three years.now reality is setting in but i think it might be to late.you can't hardly compete with a developer who want all those 5 acre ranchettes to sell to the yankees.makes yall's country look pretty good.but on the plus side we can run a pair on 1 to 2 acres.whats that work out to in doublewides?
 

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