• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

At the yards..........Denver 2008

C

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
3,633
100_1833.jpg


The amazing view of vendors and cattle breeders from the catwalk of the yards.


100_1832.jpg


Backs of Black.


100_1836.jpg


This is an old livestock railcar that sits on the edge of the yards. It reminded me of how small cattle used to be years ago. Some speculate that is more the way that the most desireables of the various breeds will be going. We heard this over and over as we sat at various cattle shows and visited with various breeders in the yards. I know as for us we have realized our 1400 lb cows are to big and are trying to get them smaller.
 
Smaller cattle has been the talk for the last 10 or 15 years but the same judges that give that speech go on to select heifer calves that have higher WW and YW epd's. :???: Makes you kind of wonder what they're thinking.
 
100_1836.jpg


This is an old livestock railcar that sits on the edge of the yards. It reminded me of how small cattle used to be years ago. Some speculate that is more the way that the most desireables of the various breeds will be going. We heard this over and over as we sat at various cattle shows and visited with various breeders in the yards. I know as for us we have realized our 1400 lb cows are to big and are trying to get them smaller.[/quote]

So do you think it is harder to downsize cows or harder to increase your cow size? I have talked to several people that say it is easier just to buy smaller framed bulls but I think that is easier said then done. When you look for semen or bulls it is easy to buy the type you already are using. Just curious about other opinions

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
I read an article the other day that said the packers were now looking for smaller lighter weight carcasses now-- and had started discounting them at 1000 lbs on a graduated scale that discounted more the more they weighed...

New Tyson cattle pricing program discounts heavier animals

By Ann Bagel Storck on 1/14/2008 for Meatingplace.com

Tyson Foods is phasing in a new cattle pricing grid designed to reward producers of animals that best meet customer needs — namely, animals that are not too heavy.

"Retail and foodservice beef customers have consistently expressed concern about excessive piece weights from heavy carcasses," the company said in a written statement. "These beef subprimals are subsequently difficult to portion and merchandize."

Under Tyson's new "True Value Grid," beef carcasses weighing more than 1,000 pounds are discounted $15 per hundredweight, while those more than 1,050 pounds are discounted $35 per hundredweight. The grid also incorporates USDA's regional weekly weighted average prices as well as average premiums and discounts based on quality.
Click to expand...


It also appears in looking in many of the AI catalogs where they are making many more "truly moderate" framed and EPD sires available-- along with sires that have a good history of moderating frame and body size of their daughters...Some of the producers of these type cattle/bulls have been having hot sales lately too (ex. Diamond D)- as more can see the trainwreck that comes from following a continuing pattern of "bigger, better, faster"..

Those heifers with or out of bulls with a +50-60WW and +100YW with a milk EPD of +30 seem like a wreck just looking to happen to me with the droughted or sometimes bad pasture conditions we seem to get more often than not.....Unless a guy wants to follow them around with a protein lick tub and sack of feed..... :roll:

I loaded lots of cattle into cars like them-- in weather like this- all night and all day--chipping frozen sh*t out of the doors at 25 Below so you could close them....Not fun....
 
I strive for the moderate type cattle as well.

I used my first DDA bred bulls in 1997.
Guess I was country when country wasn't cool. :D

I think we were probably the last people in Canada to ship cattle by rail.
Had our own yards beside the tracks in Big Beaver. The last year we had to haul by truck 70 miles to load the train as we had lost our tracks.
 
One trend I've noticed with the frame reduction is also the trend toward general mass reduction. I personally can't use tight cattle just to try to get the mature weight on my cows below 1200. Our grass is washy and it takes more forage intake here than almost anywhere else in the country. I want 5 or 6 frame cows that when mature weigh 1200 to 1400. I have some smaller and larger but I prefer this type. I did sell a 11 year old cow a month or so back that was open which weighed over 1700. She was a commercial cow that did everything right, was gentle, etc. As long as she bred back she got to stay but when she didn't , I was glad to see her go. Interestingly she was most visitors favorite cow. She did fetch a nice check of over 900 dollars for an open cow. :lol:

I think if the corn price holds that cattle with some extra volume and width will be in higher demand. Higher roughage rations might be the norm in the feed lot.
 
Great pictures, thank you for sharing. Hopefully I can get out there before they move it to another location. Why do they want to move it?
 
Oldtimer said:
I read an article the other day that said the packers were now looking for smaller lighter weight carcasses now-- and had started discounting them at 1000 lbs on a graduated scale that discounted more the more they weighed...

New Tyson cattle pricing program discounts heavier animals

By Ann Bagel Storck on 1/14/2008 for Meatingplace.com

Tyson Foods is phasing in a new cattle pricing grid designed to reward producers of animals that best meet customer needs — namely, animals that are not too heavy.

"Retail and foodservice beef customers have consistently expressed concern about excessive piece weights from heavy carcasses," the company said in a written statement. "These beef subprimals are subsequently difficult to portion and merchandize."

Under Tyson's new "True Value Grid," beef carcasses weighing more than 1,000 pounds are discounted $15 per hundredweight, while those more than 1,050 pounds are discounted $35 per hundredweight. The grid also incorporates USDA's regional weekly weighted average prices as well as average premiums and discounts based on quality.
Click to expand...


It also appears in looking in many of the AI catalogs where they are making many more "truly moderate" framed and EPD sires available-- along with sires that have a good history of moderating frame and body size of their daughters...Some of the producers of these type cattle/bulls have been having hot sales lately too (ex. Diamond D)- as more can see the trainwreck that comes from following a continuing pattern of "bigger, better, faster"..

Those heifers with or out of bulls with a +50-60WW and +100YW with a milk EPD of +30 seem like a wreck just looking to happen to me with the droughted or sometimes bad pasture conditions we seem to get more often than not.....Unless a guy wants to follow them around with a protein lick tub and sack of feed..... :roll:

I loaded lots of cattle into cars like them-- in weather like this- all night and all day--chipping frozen sh*t out of the doors at 25 Below so you could close them....Not fun....
Click to expand...

This Tyson story is hogwash. They have actually RAISED acceptable carcass weights of a few years ago.

All they did was increase the deduction for larger carcass weights so they could pay less for cattle. :roll:


CAB's top limit used to be 950 and it was raised this year to 1000 lbs.

If you're gonna use smaller cows (which makes sense) then use a larger framed bull for terminal calves to meet market demand.

I saw the grid/feedlot data on a huge set of calves from prominent "Lowline" bulls recently. Those calves must have set a record for loosing money..........................
 
CKC1586 said:
Great pictures, thank you for sharing. Hopefully I can get out there before they move it to another location. Why do they want to move it?
Click to expand...

My understanding is because the back yards are in such poor condition they have to fix them or build new. One person out there said that they sell property in that part of Denver by the square foot so that they would make a lot of money and be able to build new.
 
In my opinion I think it is harder to downsize the cows. This year picking out our replacements we tried hard to visualize the heifers as cows and tried to let the bigger heifers go. I think I had the hardest time with this because we let some really nice heifers go simply based on their size. In doing this we took into account birth dates and mothers size.
 
CattleArmy said:
In my opinion I think it is harder to downsize the cows. This year picking out our replacements we tried hard to visualize the heifers as cows and tried to let the bigger heifers go. I think I had the hardest time with this because we let some really nice heifers go simply based on their size. In doing this we took into account birth dates and mothers size.
Click to expand...

Well said

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
Red Robin said:
I've never seen an ad in a semen catalog stating this bull will make your heifers (and thus your steers) smaller resulting in a more efficient cow. :lol:
Click to expand...

Heres a couple off the top of my head that ABS advertises as "reduces frame size"...Several of OCC bulls are advertised to...Diamond D advertises to both reduce frame and make more efficient cows...

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1520

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1639
 
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
I've never seen an ad in a semen catalog stating this bull will make your heifers (and thus your steers) smaller resulting in a more efficient cow. :lol:
Click to expand...

Heres a couple off the top of my head that ABS advertises as "reduces frame size"...Several of OCC bulls are advertised to...Diamond D advertises to both reduce frame and make more efficient cows...

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1520

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1639
Click to expand...
Are you reducing frame or size? There's quite a difference.
 
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
I've never seen an ad in a semen catalog stating this bull will make your heifers (and thus your steers) smaller resulting in a more efficient cow. :lol:
Click to expand...

Heres a couple off the top of my head that ABS advertises as "reduces frame size"...Several of OCC bulls are advertised to...Diamond D advertises to both reduce frame and make more efficient cows...

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1520

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1639
Click to expand...
Are you reducing frame or size? There's quite a difference.
Click to expand...

Some do both--D806 not only reduces frame (height) but reduces mature weight- and has a high effieciency EPD to hopefully pass on to daughters....
 
You can't moderate cow size in one year. You can START to moderate it, however. We've been on this train for quite awhile now and we are seeing more moderate heifers and we are liking them A LOT. But it didn't happen overnight.

How was it that Ben Lawson used to put it? When you try to change something you get One like the sire; one like the dam; and one in the middle.

Sadly, those heifers that are big at weaning are not necessarily BIG as cows. Age is a factor, of course. It's hard to start this selection. And no matter how diligent you are, you'll still get some larger cattle.

Our heifers are weighing 100 lbs. less as yearlings, yet have plenty of depth and width. They just aren't as TALL.

FWIW

P.S. OT, N Bar Prime Time has been in ABS line-up for a long time.
I rather like the bull, but I worry about his dispostion. We kept heifers directly out of 5204 and we got rid of them all, because of disposition.
And they aren't really thick cattle either. So, although I like some things about Prime Time, I still have questions.

Anyone have any photos of Wye cattle to post here?
 
Faster horses said:
FWIW

P.S. OT, N Bar Prime Time has been in ABS line-up for a long time.
I rather like the bull, but I worry about his dispostion. We kept heifers directly out of 5204 and we got rid of them all, because of disposition.
And they aren't really thick cattle either. So, although I like some things about Prime Time, I still have questions.

Anyone have any photos of Wye cattle to post here?
Click to expand...

That was one of my worries too-- then when AAA released their docility ratings on progeny of some of the top bulls-- he was in the top 25%... :shock: :???:
So I'm going to try him on two larger framed registered 2nd calf heifers I have that I bought ....As I told you before- I bought a Bannon of Wye son- and a Legacy son(son of Rito 707) out of a Viking bred cow that goes back several times to the old Shoshone Viking GD60 bull....
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1695
I'm going to use them as cleanup on all the heifers and some cows...If it doesn't moderate some size- maybe it will slow the upward creep that has been happening with the semen pimps "Bull of the Year" "bigger, better, faster" bloodlines.....
 
By breeding for "bigger, better, and faster" growth traits in cattle we have inadvertedly been breeding for "Efficiency" traits also because they are highly correlated.

If you think cows are that much more efficient because they are smaller, go ahead and purchase you some "Lowlines"........ :lol:

Those little short pudgy cattle stay in the ponds here all summer and have to be fattened in the Fall to be able to make it through Winter...... :lol:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top