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? Australian Shepherd problem

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The Border Collie people fought long and hard to keep AKC out of the breed--
Then when they lost-- a good percentage of the "fighers" jumped the fence and dual registered with or courted the AKC- thats where the big money is.

There isn't and never will be a "paper" or "breed name" or "lineage" or even a "trial" record ----that guarantees work ability let alone breeding ability .
Have to do your research and find the dogs that are being used HARD for generations--- in simular situations as you are wanting to use a dog.
 
Howdyjabo said:
The Border Collie people fought long and hard to keep AKC out of the breed--
Then when they lost-- a good percentage of the "fighers" jumped the fence and dual registered with or courted the AKC- thats where the big money is.

There isn't and never will be a "paper" or "breed name" or "lineage" or even a "trial" record ----that guarantees work ability let alone breeding ability .
Have to do your research and find the dogs that are being used HARD for generations--- in simular situations as you are wanting to use a dog.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
I will always be partial to a TRUE BORDER! I was in on the battle to keep them out of the AKC, and no I did not jump the fence. I bred Borders for over 12 yrs and always had a waiting list for them...they were so versatile. I gave my last male away when I could no longer work them. I am back to where I could handle one now but, I am so picky when it comes to the type I want. I like the larger border, stocky..not wolfie. Imported Sam bloodlines..my female that I started with, both her parents were imported from Ireland..but made GREAT ALL AROUND STOCK DOGS!! they would work a bull rough...get a nose ear or whatever they could to demand respect. Then turn around work a calf slowww and so easy. They just had that natural instinct to do what was necessary. I can not remember a pup out of her that did not work like her. We have gotten 3 since I started looking, and hadnt found that dog...some say you only have one Great Dog in your life time...and many good ones. I hope to find that one that matches up again soon!! With it being so many years...some you talk to I ask about bloodlines and I get lost now..lol

They are crossing the Kelpies with Borders around here for the stock dog trials..to get more agression is what I am told. I have never messed with a Kelpie. They host one of the richest Futurities in our area...geez guess I forgot it was this month. Probably already done...but it is a great place to meet up with some great Stock Dog folks.

Easty


http://www.lscdf.com/default.asp
 
Our old friend, Bob, in W. Montana had the best border collie I have ever seen. He called him Scottie. He was as Easty described; broader and more stocky. He was certainly a grand dog and a great deal of help.

The veterinarian there had an Australian Shepherd he called Patty,
that didn't amount to much. It could have been that she wasn't taught
to mind, but she was mostly aggravating around livestock.
He insisted on breeding her to Scotty and did so several times.
The pups never were all that good. The two guys had a bit of a
falling out and when Patty came in heat again, the vet called
Bob to see if he could bring Patty over to have Scottie breed her again.

This time Bob declined.

Dead serious, he told the vet, "you can't breed a monkey
to a football and get a football player." :p

.
 
Gregs brother prefers the Aussie over a border mostly cause he would never take the time to learn how to work a border. Greg and I find all his brothers dogs have been way too timid,and give up too easily.We like our dogs to work for us,not run back to home when needed.
 
Not learning how to use a Border Collie is a problem--
they can be soooo smart that they can learn something the first time-- be it a mistake on your part or not. :)

And they can be so sensitive that they worry about being wrong again.
Can really backfire if you are pushy and don't know what you are doing.

My hubby can ruin a fully broke dog if he works them too long-- his manner(overbearing and impatient) just eventually breaks their spirit.
He'd do better with a less thoughtful breed-or even better no dog at all.
 
Hi, all. Just to clarify, I absolutely agree that folks need to be aware of all the factors when breeding any animal. That's exactly my point. The backyard suburban people who mate 2 merle aussies do the entire breed a disservice. But it does happen -even by accident, and it would be a shame not to acknowledge that those dogs can have a home and a good life as a pet rather than a working dog. In this case, the breed (show) standard helps to protect against producing double merles by limiting the amount and location of white markings. Please see the attached article regarding double merles - it's great. http://www.ashgi.org/articles/color_white_fright.htm

asghi.org is a wonderful resource.
 
hi

i red and saw that your dog that you had a dislocation.

i have a 1 year old australain shepard puppy and she is limping on her right front leg and her right front shoulder we think has a dislocation.

when your dog had a dislocation did your dog need surgery.
 
dogs said:
hi

i red and saw that your dog that you had a dislocation.

i have a 1 year old australain shepard puppy and she is limping on her right front leg and her right front shoulder we think has a dislocation.

when your dog had a dislocation did your dog need surgery.
Click to expand...
Our vet popped the shoulder back in place, but it would pop back out. He said surgery was probably less that 50/50 for her condition and was expensive. Amputation was another option. We chose to do nothing. She is as happy as she can be, a ball of energy and only limps when she runs hard for an extended time. I don't work her with cattle...just a pet! :D
 
Merle to merle cross in Aussies does NOT make the pups mentally retarded nor does it affect their skeletal structure. There is a CHANCE that some pups may be what is called lethal white which make the pup blind and or deaf. But not every cross of merle to merle will produce a lethal white in the litter. Some of the greatest and best Aussies that ever worked stock was from a merle to merle cross. There is nothing wrong with crossing two very good merles as long as the breeder is willing to cull the lethal white pups at birth. Backyard breeders that dont know what they are doing and people not willing to cull pups-should not breed Merle to Merle-shouldnt breed at all.
Robert Mac, as far as your pup-as long it is not bothering her too much and she can get around good-I wouldnt worry a whole lot.She may grow up to be just fine. It would bet she got hurt playing sometime or other but a defect is possible. Sounds like the breeder is doing you right by returning your check and putting you down for another pup in the fall. Did the breeder say if this had ever happened before?
Aussiess will always be the main dogs here but I did get my first BC pup a few months ago and getting a Kelpie also in the near future. There are good stockdogs in all breeds.
 
Could be genetic. :?

Osteochondritis Desicans (OCD)

A disease that can cause lameness in the joints of young dogs (usually
from 6 to 12 months of age) is Osteochondritis Desicans (OCD). This is
a degenerative disease of the joints, and is possibly associated with
over-nutrition and too-fast growth of puppies. Treatment includes rest
and/or surgery.

Check with your vet about this. It's listed as a possible genetic defect in a lot of breeds, from Aussies to Border Collies to Mastiffs and even Chihuahuas.

Hopefully it's an injury though..... That is such a sweet pup!
 
kt in calif said:
Dear Desertrose & all interested in Aussies,

I have owned Aussies for many years and recently adopted a double merle female who is deaf in both ears and has one eye that has a deformed pupil. (She sees fine but squints a bit in the sun.) Please allow me to respectfully educate you a bit.

Mating 2 merle Aussies results in 25% of the offspring being "lethal white" or double merle. In these dogs, hearing and vision are linked to the presence of pigment in the skin and hair. So, if the dog has an all-white ear (no pigment), that ear will be deaf. Similarly, if there is no pigment around the eye, it will likely have some sort of defect and will be very light blue. (Note: Blue eyes are not an indication of blindness. Blue eyes, marble eyes, or bi-color eyes are perfectly acceptable and normal.) Some vision defects are minor, as with my dog. Dogs with pink noses and/or pink around the eye (no eyeliner) are more at risk for skin cancer in those areas.

There is no evidence that skeletal problems or joint problems are especially linked to double merle crosses. Most importantly, these dogs are NOT mentally retarded! (Where did you get this cockamamie idea?!?) As with all Aussies, they are smart, eager to please, have great work instincts, and are easy to train using hand signals.
Click to expand...

At one time 3 of the top 10 Aussies in the Nation were our breeding and had Winners Dog at Nationals _ I have Family photos with Aussies from 1918.
"Merle" to "Merle" breeding is not the trouble _ The trouble lies in the "White Factor" _ Basely if the White on the Legs ties into the body White thr dog is said to be "White Factored" _ White Factored Dogs should only be bred to Non White Factored Dogs Hopely Red or Black Tris but a Knowledgeable Breeder might try

Rule Thumb _ More then 1/3 of the head is White is a Cull _ But Yes Color around Ears and Eyes
 
TumbleDowns Chance of A LifeTime
Winners Dog
Winners%20Dog.jpg


Note White on Feet does not tie into Body White

Get of Sire Class (Lead Dog)
Stud%20Dog%20Class.jpg


Note Third Dog is a White Factored Red Tri

Spirit
025_1.JPG


Spirits Color (White) is on the Off Side
He is NOT WHITE FACTORED
 
RobertMac, I had two Aussies from a merle to merle breeding. They were the BEST dogs and companions I ever owned. They were willing to work very hard! One just recently passed away and he was 14! I never had any medical issues to speak of out of either one of them.

The blue merle I had received an injury to his leg when he was young and had a limping problem for 2 years. When my vet told me to put this adult dog on the Iam's puppy small chunks, the limping went away within 2 weeks. Something in that food helped the joint. I kept him on it until he died last month.

The main thing to watch for in an Aussie is just as everyone has said, not too much white. A lot of white, does indicate less intelligence (not retardness) and deafness and blindness. But your Aussie doesn't have hardly any white at all, so I wouldn't be worried. Aussies can be the best dogs you will ever own.
 
I raise catahoulas and have the same problem with breedlng 2 leopards. About 25% will have to much white or pie bald. I have never had a blind dog but most are deaf.
 
my assie Brandi is a lethal white she is out of a lethal white blue merle cross not only is she not deaf and blind but she is not (less intelligent) robinea she is actually the smartest dog i've ever owned.
 
Robinae said:
RobertMac, I had two Aussies from a merle to merle breeding. They were the BEST dogs and companions I ever owned. They were willing to work very hard! One just recently passed away and he was 14! I never had any medical issues to speak of out of either one of them.

The blue merle I had received an injury to his leg when he was young and had a limping problem for 2 years. When my vet told me to put this adult dog on the Iam's puppy small chunks, the limping went away within 2 weeks. Something in that food helped the joint. I kept him on it until he died last month.

The main thing to watch for in an Aussie is just as everyone has said, not too much white. A lot of white, does indicate less intelligence (not retardness) and deafness and blindness. But your Aussie doesn't have hardly any white at all, so I wouldn't be worried. Aussies can be the best dogs you will ever own.
Click to expand...
Robinae, any idea what is in the Iam's puppy that helped with the limping?
Maybe I could supplement her with it...Gussie is in with our beagle and Assie/Golden retriever cross(this was a great cross...made wonderful pets for several of our friends) with a self feeder.
I take glucosamine/chondrotin every day...greatly helps with my knees and hip joints.
 

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