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bale grazing pics

If you intend to do this again I would get some of the cheapest and lightest grass twine. But then I'm a little on the lazy side.
 
I put twine on the bales just in case I had left overs. It was a good thing because there are 110 left. It is 20 miles from home so I am just going to move them off the field and stock pile for next year.
BMR you are right about the hay blowing away!
 
Alfalfa /grass hay is selling for about $110.00 per ton at this time around here. My steers averaged in the $1/lb range for 650 weight last October. Definitely not a get rich quick scheme!!
 
I'll play devils advocate here and say I'm rather dubious of the logic behind bale grazing. Like everything else there may be places where it is a good fit but many of the claims I see made about it don't convince me. Here are some of the aspects I query;
Usually the cost of bale grazing is compared to dry lot feeding and obviously bale grazing wins out... but, how does it pencil compared to pasture feeding using feed rings or bunks that limit waste?
It is claimed that bale grazing negates the need for a tractor - but whether you hire one in during the fall to place bales or set them out yourself each bale needs placed with a tractor just the same as if you feed in rings. It may suit your labor schedule/lifestyle choice better to not start a tractor all winter but that needs to be set against the costs incurred by the extra wastage. If you have a tractor already you will only reduce the operating costs not the ownership costs which tend to be the larger part.
We're told that the hay wastage with bale grazing is OK because it results in better grass next year - but think about it, this is not free land improvement. A bale of hay contains a certain amount of nutrients which will finish up on the land whether it goes through the cow or not (the cow only retains a very small amount of the nutrients if she is gaining weight) I reckon it more efficient to put the hay through the cow first rather than have it decay on the surface. Bale grazing does not create extra nutrients because you feed the bale on the ground with increased wastage rather than in a ring with limited wastage.
The truth is most of the subsequent benefit seen from bale grazing is a result of improved litter on the soil surface, better water retention, microbe activity etc rather than increased fertility. There are cheaper ways to increase litter levels than spreading 4c/lb hay on the ground. In the case of those folks making hay and then bale grazing it where the bales land why not park (or sell)the tractor/mower/baler/rake and just graze the field? - summer or winter grazing action from cows will improve your litter faster and cheaper than using a tractor.
I think bale grazing is a fundamentally flawed concept as it is based on using mechanically harvesting feed then feeding it out with an accepted higher wastage level. I think there are better opportunities in extended grazing or purchased feed trucked in and fed with minimal waste.
The above comments are my opinions based on bale grazing in the dry winter conditions of Western Canada where mud/pasture damage is not an issue.
 
Good points grass farmer
This is my first attempt at bale grazing and these are the reason I believe it worked for me
- I left the bales right where they fell from the baler
- my cost to hire a truck to transport the bales 20 miles to my home place would have been around $2000.00
-my cost to electric fence the field into parcels was about $450 for supplies
-my cost to purchase a solar/wind winter water system $3450
$450 +$3450 / 5 year life = $780 per year
- I did not need to start a tractor every day for an extra 2.5 months
because I grazed my cows on stock piled native pasture and bale grazed
2.5*30*$25 per day= $1875.00
-my cows ate approximately 40 lb per day for December which is about the same as I would have processed in the bitter cold anyway.
-for arguement sake lets say the cows wasted %10 of the bale (which I dont see because feeding with a processor wastes as well)
10%*156000 lb*$.055/lb= $858 waste (assuming no residual value)
-cost to heavy harrow 75 acres @$7/acre= $525.00

My cost to bale graze $780.00+$858.00+$525.00=$2163.00

My savings from bale grazing $2000.00+$1875.00=$3875.00
 
Grassfarmer said:
1) but, how does it pencil compared to pasture feeding using feed rings or bunks that limit waste?

2) feed in rings. It may suit your labor schedule/lifestyle choice better to not start a tractor all winter but that needs to be set against the costs incurred by the extra wastage. If you have a tractor already you will only reduce the operating costs not the ownership costs which tend to be the larger part.

3) microbe activity etc rather than increased fertility. There are cheaper ways to increase litter levels than spreading 4c/lb hay on the ground. In the case of those folks making hay and then bale grazing it where the bales land why not park (or sell)the tractor/mower/baler/rake and just graze the field? - summer or winter grazing action from cows will improve your litter faster and cheaper than using a tractor.
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1) The very first year I bale grazed, I did it one week of "straight" bale grazing, one week of feeding with standard hay rings, and one week of feeding with my hay saver feeders. Thats how I arrived at my percent wastage figures, versus guessing. A couple things I didn't like about feeding with the feeders:

i) where the feeders were placed, the ground was tore up badly and the tame grasses killed. It didn't happen in the dead of winter of course, but in the fall and spring before/after things froze.

ii) you negate the savings of not starting your tractor in the winter. While this can be difficult to put a finger on, in my case, my winter fuel costs were cut in 1/5 (I still had to pen feed calves, but I was able to use the feeders normally reserved for cattle and lay out enough calf feed for a week at a time). As well, its tough to put a number on the extra fuel burned by a tractor running in the winter versus the summer, but since winter fuel in Canada has 20% less energy, you can guarantee that you're burning at _least_ 20% more.

iii) Now as you mentioned cost of ownership is significant. A tractor that runs in the winter _will_ break down/wear out earlier than one that does not, especially in my neck of the woods where we spend a significant amount of time at -30 and -40. Hard to say how much earlier, and its going to vary based on quality of tractor, but its going to be there.

iv) With feeders, you still needed to bed. To get straw I either had to buy it, or remove nutrients from my fathers grain land. Before the cost of fertilizers went sky high, this cost was pegged at $8/bale of straw. I'd double that now.

2) I've definitely not advocated not owning your own tractor. Indeed, I think its a waste of money to hire the neighbors. Not to mention I think the neighbors would get tired of hearing from me lol As far as the extra wastage, I was running about 10% waste, which was easily offset by fuel savings.

3) I live in NE Saskatchewan. Fall grazing is one of those hit/miss things. Some years (like this one), we may not see much snow until January. Other years (like two years ago) our very first snow was 2 feet that stuck in the pastures and fields like glue. Even setting bales out in feeders in the pasture would have been impossible. As it was, the gates blew in and I had to use a tractor and blade to break the snow down and let the cows come in for water.

So in some cases, perhaps like yours Grassfarmer, bale grazing doesn't make sense. In my case, bale grazing saves me time AND money versus conventional pen feeding or using bale rings in the pasture.

Rod
 
I know that there are some risks involved but we have been swath grazing some of our hay land for several years now. We graze our hay land to set the timing back or bale early. Then sometime in Sept swath it and leave it to graze in the winter. Yes there is a risk of killing the crop underneath the swath that is why we cut in Sept when the growth is about over preferable after a few big frosts. It give us the ability to graze in crusted snow and preserve good feed with minimum mechanical intervention and no tractor starting.
 
I think it's a waste of money to pay interest and depreciation on an asset that I'd maybe use 50 hours a year. It works out good-my neighbor doesn't like A'I'ing cows and I hate tractors. If you like owning and running equipment or it doesn't work to rent it by all means do so. Rod has a very good point about how hard it is to run tractors in the cold-minus 40 puts a whole new slant on things. Really the most economical way to feed is with a draft team of mares-they lay down every May and replace themselves-the more you use them the more they are worth-if you aren't spread out to far you can feed just as fast as with a tractor. Pretty easy to double the value of a young team from fall to spring.
 
We'll time ourselves from the time I start harnessing while your hearing that first pathetic groan of a tractor trying to start in -40 lol. All I know is my neighbor and I back in our team days could have 600 plus cattle fed before dinner and we were skidding bales quite a ways. Did I mention that I hate tractors lol.
 
guest1 said:
can feed just as fast as with a tractor

I'd take that bet.
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<chuckle> I did that once with my Uncle Don. He had a great team of Belgians that he used in the bush all the time and he swore he could outpace me feeding cattle with them.

Turned out he was wrong by quite a bit. 3 to 1 in fact, and I wasn't hurrying at all.

He still figured it was cheaper, but I dunno. By the time you take into account the feed you have to put into those big buggers, I don't think you'd be too far off. I guess if you own 'em already, it would make sense to make use of 'em though...

Rod
 
My problem with bale grazing is that it is a system based around wastage and as a Scotsman I don't like that. If you are bale grazing with only 10% wastage that is quite a feat. More generally we see 20% wastage quoted. One research project done in Alberta showed that unrolling bales on the land resulted in 20% waste, feeding with a processor wasted 14% and bunk feeding wasted 5%.
I have never seen research done to compare bale grazing with feeding on pasture with rings - the comparison is always bale grazing versus dry lot feeding which is comparing oranges to apples.

If we take a 20% feed wastage figure under bale grazing and compare it with 5% using feed rings and use a figure of $40 for 1200lb bales (roughly what it costs me to have bales delivered in). On a 100 cow herd the extra wastage under bale grazing is $600 A MONTH! That is way, way more than it costs me to run a tractor to feed every second day. Like most people we already have the tractor and use it to feed youngstock anyway.
 
Well as a Canadian with a Scots background I'm pretty sure you waste just as much with hay rings as you do bale grazing. It's just not thrifty having all that capital investment tied up in rings that are only good at killing grass in a circular pattern. I'm sure your canny enough to run a project through your school of hard knocks and find out for yourself or do you take every government research project as the gospel truth. all I know is some of the cheapest and richest ranchers in our country bale graze-I just copy them and hope for the best. Like I said before by the time the mares pick through our bale grazing there isn't much left.
 
Grassfarmer said:
I have never seen research done to compare bale grazing with feeding on pasture with rings - the comparison is always bale grazing versus dry lot feeding which is comparing oranges to apples.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats why I did it the way I did the first year. I refused to believe that the waste to bale grazing wasn't all that much higher than the waste in bale rings. Turned out I was wrong.

<chuckle> That only happened once back in '68...

Anyway, why don't you try it yourself one year, grassfarmer? All I did was set three bale feeders out in the pasture and tossed 3 bales in with 45 head. I kept watch and when the feeders were empty, I set out 3 bales on the plain dirt. The amount of time it took the cattle to eat 3 bales was pretty much identical with bale rings coming out with _maybe_ 10% less waste.

Besides, you keep calling it waste when its really not. Ground litter cover and fertilizer is worth something. You said there were cheaper ways to achieve ground cover, but the only way I know of to do that is to allow the grass to come back before winter and not grze it off. There is a cost associated with that as well.

Rod
 
I'm not saying bale grazing is a bad system - just that I'm not convinced that the economics of it are as rosy as sometimes painted. As NR rightly points out there is an ownership cost in feed rings too. Compared to $600 a month feed wastage on 100 cows it is a small cost though (I figure around $1.5 cow/year) We never kill grass around the rings because we aren't feeding hay in rings under mud conditions - if you are bale grazing under mud conditions I'll bet your wastage will be ahead of 20%. I certainly don't believe all the research projects are gospel - that's why I question this method of feeding and the cost savings touted for it. At the same time proper research projects can accurately assess the wastage levels with the different systems - eyeballing the results or timing how long cows take to run out of edible food does not accurately predict how much wastage you are getting.
One cheaper way of improving litter Rod is to leave the damn baler at home! just let it grow and harvest direct it with cows.
 
guest1 said:
per said:
I know that there are some risks involved but we have been swath grazing some of our hay land for several years now. We graze our hay land to set the timing back or bale early. Then sometime in Sept swath it and leave it to graze in the winter. Yes there is a risk of killing the crop underneath the swath that is why we cut in Sept when the growth is about over preferable after a few big frosts. It give us the ability to graze in crusted snow and preserve good feed with minimum mechanical intervention and no tractor starting.
Click to expand...

When you swath in Sept after a few freezes the grass is already dead and half cured out. What are you gaining by laying it in a windrow when the cattle could harvest it standing?
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The best reason for swathing is that Alfalfa in this country will lose all it's leaves after it ripens. Swathing and letting lay will preserve much more then left standing.
 
guest1 said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
guest1 said:
When you swath in Sept after a few freezes the grass is already dead and half cured out. What are you gaining by laying it in a windrow when the cattle could harvest it standing?
Click to expand...


The best reason for swathing is that Alfalfa in this country will lose all it's leaves after it ripens. Swathing and letting lay will preserve much more then left standing.
Click to expand...

I can see swath grazing native grass hay but grazing alfalfa is assine.
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Well Mr Assine you would have quite a bit of trouble swathing native grass in this country. Besides hard native grass will cure on the stem.

What works in one area won't always work in another.
 
you're right grass farmer. You will increase the litter dramatically by winter grazing standing alfalfa.The result will be 90% waste and 10% sticks swaying gently in the wind.
 

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