Barbed Wire vs. High Tensile Electric

[per]

Just for the record I have no problem with whoever likes smooth high tensile. The question I have is how do you handle mind changes and moving or rolling one back up? In my world nothing is considered permanent. New ideas and ways sometimes means moving a fence or two. I only have 2 paddocks left greater than a quarter section and move in mobs of up to 400 head so building more fence is not high on the list of things to do anyway. Does anyone use light roll up wire and step in posts on the interior? That gives me the flexibility that I need. George, who makes a 12 joule charger and does it come in solar or 12 volt. No electricity any where near.

 

[RSL]

We use a Viper 9000 13.5 joule fencer for distant fence jobs. Built our own battery and solar charging setup. We use white electric tape for gates as the cattle can see them really well, they are fast and cheap to build. We put $2 rubber handles on the end. We use polywire with rebar posts on lots of our smaller strips and never have a problem. We use a big bulldozer plug in fencer (Zareba?) at home, and we use little bee fencers around dugouts. Of all the fencers we have used over the years, I like the speedrite's the best by a mile.
The biggest screwup is not grounding the fence well enough. We run a ground wire on winter fences in particular and put in a ground rod on each new section of fence. With this setup we will run 7000+ volts even on the coldest day with snow on the fence.
The nicest thing about electric is that one person can put in 3/4 of a mile of fence by themselves in a day. We have used the light guage stuff and it seems like a cheap solution until it breaks and you try to pick it up so it doesn't catch your saddle horse.

 

[bverellen]

The question I have is how do you handle mind changes and moving or rolling one back up? In my world nothing is considered permanent. New ideas and ways sometimes means moving a fence or two. .

You can use a Jenny or Reeler that is made for unspooling the wire. If I recall, someone said you can also re-wind the wire by spooling it into the cavity of an old tire, although I havn't personally seen this done, but seems like it would work better than trying to wrap it up free hand.

bart.

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[Ben H]

I use the spinning jenny I use to unroll the wire to roll it back up, then zip tie it.

For interior I use Gallagher Turbo wire and their geared medium real. Once you used a geared real nothing else will do. I tend to use pig tails, the down side is you are limited to how many you can carry, they get heavy.[/u]

 

[RobertMac]

For electric fence to be effective, cattle absolutely have to be trained to it. Almost my entire cow herd has been raised with electric fence...I rotational grazed them through ryegrass pastures all winter with a single string waste high...90% of the time, not even hot...zero cross overs. I keep the wire hot when calves are present...they are usually trained at about a year of age...heifers being the last to train...go figure!!!! :wink: :wink: :lol:

Fighting bulls or a stampeding group will go through anything...electric is just easier to put back up.
Like others have said...use a BIG charger AND a BIG ground system!!

 

[RobertMac]

I had a guy come and meet me to see how I do things last year, he works for a company that is developing a headgear for cattle with a GPS transmitter. It will show you on your computer where all your cattle are. But the next step is to be able to draw "fences" on your computer. It works like a dogs invisible fence but with GPS, when the cattle get close to the border you create, it gives them an audio warning, a little further a shock. The warning and shock are on either side of the head to direct them. You can also use it to herd the animals where you need them to go.

That's interesting,a shock collar for cattle.

What's next?

A shock collar for men, the wives can just zap us if were headed for the wrong place. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Big Muddy, how long you been married??????
I'm sure every time you head in the wrong direction, an image of Miss Tam giving you "that look" comes into your head and you turn around and head in the right direction. Don't need no GPS shock collar!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

That's interesting,a shock collar for cattle.

What's next?

A shock collar for men, the wives can just zap us if were headed for the wrong place. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Big Muddy, how long you been married??????
I'm sure every time you head in the wrong direction, an image of Miss Tam giving you "that look" comes into your head and you turn around and head in the right direction. Don't need no GPS shock collar!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course i am well trained :wink: But i have heard that "Some" men aren't.

 

[PureCountry]

Grassfarmer, that power point is very similar to Allan Savory's presentation that is always shown in Holistic Management Training Courses. Incredible how black and white the differences and variations can be, and they can be right across the fence from one another. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there are test plots everywhere if you just look for them. We could all find examples like the ones in the power point in our own areas.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Silver]

Just curious, I am considering putting a fence across one end of some rented pasture but I'm not too excited about the expense. I was thinking maybe electic might be a reasonable option. It's a mile and a half from creek to creek up over a high ridge on a good wide cleared fenceline.
What would you guys use for posts, post spacing, wire, etc. if you were going to do the the Tom Edison way?

 

[Cal]

Just taking existing fences and putting one wire on insulators and putting the juicer to it has cut down on our fence maintenance big time. Especially all of the small pastures that have pairs sorted into them during calving, and also as the grass is tempting green and growing on one side but your still haying the cows on the other. As for new fences, two smooth wires with steel posts about 15 long strides apart seems to keep everything in. When AC isn't available my second choice is just a charger that runs off of a12 v car battery. Seems to last maybe a month between charges if everything is good.

 

[burnt]

Well if you're doing it the Edison way, I hope you don't have to try 1001 ways (or whatever # of tries and failures it was for the light bulb) before you to get it to work . . . Wink

 

[Silver]

Well if you're doing it the Edison way, I hope you don't have to try 1001 ways (or whatever # of tries and failures it was for the light bulb) before you to get it to work . . . Wink

Well, I was thinking I would do like Mr. Edison and actually just buy or steal the idea like he did :wink: ....... or just get some info from folks who have already learned the hard way

Do you guys build wooden braces every so far to support things? Or just at the ends?

 

[Grassfarmer]

Silver, as Cal says 2 high tensile wires on regular wood posts with an insulator (watch the quality of these - some are utter crap and break the first time wildlife hits the wire) If you have a 6 foot long, 4 inch round post at the ends and corners a 3 inch post is plenty heavy enough in between. Remember an electric fence is a mental barrier not a physical one like a 4 strand barb. No need for props - just sink the posts in deep enough though because you don't need the top wire as high as you do with your top barb wire. If your end posts pull out or angle you are tightening the wire too much! It depends on the terrain but you can put the posts further apart than Cal suggests on good flat country. The posts are only there to hold the wire upright and off the ground, cows wont be rubbing on them or rubbing the wire grazing through the fence like a barb one. See the beauty of an electric fence ? not only does the shock keep animals in, it protects your fence from getting damaged by them But get an adequate charger and keep it going - I would suggest a fairly inexpensive solar charger would be the way to go on a small run like this.
In the past when we got oil wells or pipeline leases on our place I offered to electric fence around the lease sites for them if they provided me with a solar charger. That was a real good deal as they even paid me for my labor - I don't think they realise how cheap it is to run a single strand fence around a lease site!

 

[Silver]

Thanks GF. Do you think this fenc will work on cattle that have never seen an electric fence before?

 

[RobertMac]

Silver, as Cal says 2 high tensile wires on regular wood posts with an insulator (watch the quality of these - some are utter crap and break the first time wildlife hits the wire) If you have a 6 foot long, 4 inch round post at the ends and corners a 3 inch post is plenty heavy enough in between. Remember an electric fence is a mental barrier not a physical one like a 4 strand barb. No need for props - just sink the posts in deep enough though because you don't need the top wire as high as you do with your top barb wire. If your end posts pull out or angle you are tightening the wire too much! It depends on the terrain but you can put the posts further apart than Cal suggests on good flat country. The posts are only there to hold the wire upright and off the ground, cows wont be rubbing on them or rubbing the wire grazing through the fence like a barb one. See the beauty of an electric fence ? not only does the shock keep animals in, it protects your fence from getting damaged by them But get an adequate charger and keep it going - I would suggest a fairly inexpensive solar charger would be the way to go on a small run like this.
In the past when we got oil wells or pipeline leases on our place I offered to electric fence around the lease sites for them if they provided me with a solar charger. That was a real good deal as they even paid me for my labor - I don't think they realise how cheap it is to run a single strand fence around a lease site!

Ground system...one ground rod will work under perfect conditions...always moist soil. The more dry and rough your land, the more ground rods you need for the shock to be effective. 3 to 5 rods at least ten feet apart should work well.

I like using TipperTie 12.5 ga. AL wire...light, easy to work with, better conductor. I use one run of this and one or two runs of polywire. The best insulators I have found are from Premier Fence. I don't like their polywire...I only use Gallagher polywire...it's the best.

If your cattle introduce themselves to the fence, you should be alright. I put the bottom run(12.5 AL) at about thigh high. Cows will eat under it until they touch it. A high third run may be needed to discourage jumpers.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/

 

[Grassfarmer]

Thanks GF. Do you think this fenc will work on cattle that have never seen an electric fence before?

Yes - I'm guessing this will be pairs you are grazing at low stock density so they will have plenty time to check it out. The guys that intensive graze yearlings with a 1000 in a bunch need to train them first but I've never found it necessary with cows.

 

[CattleArmy]

For what it's worth and I'm sure not much I've been around both electic fences and barb wire. Mainly barb wire. I would assume the reason most around here still do the barbwire is that the pastures are very large and trying to keep all the connections right to keep a charge might turn into a full time job. I have been around using electric fence to split summer pastures. It wasn't to bad. The calves were usually on the other side as just one wire was strung and if an insulator fell off then that would kill the fence.

In the area I'm from I think electric fence is good for a quick fence when you have cattle on the state land or in trying to split summer range.

 

[bverellen]

I think some folks might be confusing the two different types of electric fencing.

Portable stuff like polywire, galvanized and aluminum wires with step in posts of either steel or plastic has it's place, especially within established pastures and as part of a rotational grazing plan, whether it be Management Intensive, Mob Grazing, weekly moves or even just sectioning off an area as I do on one of my places to stockpile forage for our dry season.

I think the Original Poster was refering to the other type of "electrified" fencing, known as Hi-Tensile.

This stuff is typically 12.5 Gauge, has a breaking point of 1650 lbs.!!!

It can be used as a four strand fence, but often as many as 6 or 8 strands can be used for containing sheep, goats or stockers. Even without it being electrified it is an effective physical barrier and stands up to wildlife pressure as well.

Post spacing can also be 35'-100' apart depending on your terrain, and at a cost of approx. $88.00 for a 4000'(four thousand) spool, it is considerably less costly than barbed wire it install, both in material and labor.

Hope this Helps.....

bart.

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[Silver]

What I am wanting to do is split a decent size patch of crown land in half (which we are subrenting from a neighbour). Only pairs to be run on the pastures at low density. So... is high tensile the way to go? Is 2 wires of high tensile enough, or should I add one strand of barbed?

 

[Ben H]

It would be ideal if you had a training area to put them in like a coral with an electric wire on the inside that they can touch to get shocked without being able to go through it. On the other hand, being older animals, they'll probably go up to investigate the fence, sniff it and get zapped on the nose causing them to back up. The two can be enough, the question is weather or not it's acceptable for calves to duck under the wire.

Traditionally I've used three strands. On one recent fence that is near a busy road I did a 5 strand perimeter and 3 strand interiors. When I'm rotationally grazing I use one strand of polywire. I'm building a permanent fence on a field that I've used a single strand of polywire on the perimeter for a few years with the cows. Had the stockers out there this spring as well. The key is it's surrounded by woods, there isn't anything better on the other side. I'm about done cutting the field edges back to the stone wall, I'm going to try something new, I'm going to put two strands along the stone wall, the bottom one a little below the top of the stone wall, yet tall enough for them to reach under and keep the stone wall clean.

http://www.gallagherusa.com/pfConfig/pfConfig_cattle_2WC.aspx