Beef prices too high?

[agman]

Agman- "I have to laugh at your claim. I have seen tons and tons of ground beef made. I have never seen anything in the mix but lean beef and 50/50 beef trim. Please clarify where and when you have witnessed liver and heart being placed in ground beef. "

Agman, I believe that Porker was refering to the difference between product labeled "ground beef" and product labelled "hamburger".
The way it was explained to me is, "ground beef" is indeed ground muscle meat and possibly added fat. "Hamburger" if labelled as such, may contain organ meat and ???????
Is this not correct??? Just asking an honest question.

Good question, I will clarify tommorow. Thanks

 

[Murgen]

Unfortunately, beef started losing ground to the competing meats in the second quarter of 2004. The consumer has and is continuing to vote today and beef is losing consumer dollars to pork and chicken. Beef demand declined approximately 2% in the first quarter of 2005. It is worse this quarter

Agman, in your opinion, what was the reason for this decrease in "demand", was it price? Was the demand decrese only in commodity beef?

What do you think the equilbrium price of beef is? Maybe the US has realized it. Do you think that there is potential to raise this equilbrium price with individual ID and/or branded beef products? Are the consumers willing to pay for what they are asking for?

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Jason]

Agman, I believe that Porker was refering to the difference between product labeled "ground beef" and product labelled "hamburger".
The way it was explained to me is, "ground beef" is indeed ground muscle meat and possibly added fat. "Hamburger" if labelled as such, may contain organ meat and ???????
Is this not correct??? Just asking an honest question.

Tim you are right.

The organ meat is sometimes added at the retail shop. I have seen a local store grind heart onto hamburger after the color had oxidized and the meat was grey, the heart made it red and allowed a further couple days of red color to sell the package. One customer that got it sure wasn't happy.

Besides organ meat hamburger can contain a percentage of floor sweepings.

The moral of the story is be very careful if you buy hamburger! Buy ground beef and pay the few cents more.

 

[Jeannie]

I can't justify nor afford 7.99 a lb beef steak to feed my family at supper, that would cost me a minimum of 24.00 per supper meal!

Yet you buy hamburger that's not all beef an buy ground beef for 2.29 a lb,Not smart.So lets grind the whole animal less offal but lets include heart an liver in your burger,WHAT price will the boned 560#cow be live on the hoof less labor?????Made into whole burger, cow price is$1374.00 at a labor cost of$4. 23 cents per animal.Lot a profit from retail to packer I say!!Could some one validate??//

I have to laugh at your claim. I have seen tons and tons of ground beef made. I have never seen anything in the mix but lean beef and 50/50 beef trim. Please clarify where and when you have witnessed liver and heart being placed in ground beef.

A second laugh. Your latter implication about packer profits clearly dislpays how truly little you actaully know. For starters, do you know how much saleable product is derived from a single cow? How much product is actually sold at the retial price? It goes on and on and on.......

There is a big difference between 'ground beef', 'ground chuck', and 'hamburger'. Just who do you think dictates the price of beef in the local supermarket? It sure as hell isn't the producer! It's the packer. They dictate how much they will sell the beef to the distributor for, who then marks it up to make a profit. Get a clue!

 

[CattleCo]

Ok, so we are getting more for cattle now. Combines cost more, pickups cost more, fertilizer is high( I paid $440 @ ton for Anhydrous this year............and I am looking at 2 dollar corn or less this FALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is your point? The entire ag Industry is not getting paid what their product is worth as compared to past prices! :roll:
Please don't come back with government support payments and LDP for grain farmers..............AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED 2.00 dollar corn is government WELFARE for the Cattle Feeders!

 

[agman]

Agman- "I have to laugh at your claim. I have seen tons and tons of ground beef made. I have never seen anything in the mix but lean beef and 50/50 beef trim. Please clarify where and when you have witnessed liver and heart being placed in ground beef. "

Agman, I believe that Porker was refering to the difference between product labeled "ground beef" and product labelled "hamburger".
The way it was explained to me is, "ground beef" is indeed ground muscle meat and possibly added fat. "Hamburger" if labelled as such, may contain organ meat and ???????
Is this not correct??? Just asking an honest question.

I checked with two major processors this AM and there is no difference between ground beef specifications and that of hamburger. You can call it either one. NO organ meat is used in either as Porker suggests. Both must be a minimum of 70% lean.

 

[Tommy]

This thread started with the Ag. Sec'y saying beef prices are too high. I have a question for agman and SH.

Do either of you think the producer is getting paid too much for his or her cattle now? If so, please elaborate.

 

[Mike]

This thread started with the Ag. Sec'y saying beef prices are too high. I have a question for agman and SH.

Do either of you think the producer is getting paid too much for his or her cattle now? If so, please elaborate.

I don't mean to butt in here Tommy but Janet Riley- spokesperson for AMI certainly thinks so! I would think she is speaking for the members.

I yield the floor......................to your distinguished colleagues!

 

[agman]

This thread started with the Ag. Sec'y saying beef prices are too high. I have a question for agman and SH.

Do either of you think the producer is getting paid too much for his or her cattle now? If so, please elaborate.

No, I do not think he is getting paid too much. However, I do believe that the current price is unsustainable due to the inability of consumers to support retail prices at levels sufficient to maintain current cash price levels. The evidence for this has been mounting since the second quarter of 2004 if you were paying attention.

 

[don]

johanns: Johanns said reopening the border was vital for the domestic cattle business. He said beef prices in the United States have risen too high since May 2003, when the border was closed after Canada's first case of mad cow disease.

If beef supplies don't increase and drive down prices, "American consumers will start choosing other sources of protein," he told reporters after the meeting.

just goes to show that sandhusker took the quote out of context. johanns was making the point that beef is overpriced relative to other choices. the usda blamers (for all that is wrong with the american beef industry) will latch onto any figment of their imagination in order to advance the cause.

 

[agman]

I can't justify nor afford 7.99 a lb beef steak to feed my family at supper, that would cost me a minimum of 24.00 per supper meal!

Yet you buy hamburger that's not all beef an buy ground beef for 2.29 a lb,Not smart.So lets grind the whole animal less offal but lets include heart an liver in your burger,WHAT price will the boned 560#cow be live on the hoof less labor?????Made into whole burger, cow price is$1374.00 at a labor cost of$4. 23 cents per animal.Lot a profit from retail to packer I say!!Could some one validate??//

I have to laugh at your claim. I have seen tons and tons of ground beef made. I have never seen anything in the mix but lean beef and 50/50 beef trim. Please clarify where and when you have witnessed liver and heart being placed in ground beef.

A second laugh. Your latter implication about packer profits clearly dislpays how truly little you actaully know. For starters, do you know how much saleable product is derived from a single cow? How much product is actually sold at the retial price? It goes on and on and on.......

There is a big difference between 'ground beef', 'ground chuck', and 'hamburger'. Just who do you think dictates the price of beef in the local supermarket? It sure as hell isn't the producer! It's the packer. They dictate how much they will sell the beef to the distributor for, who then marks it up to make a profit. Get a clue!

 

[agman]

I can't justify nor afford 7.99 a lb beef steak to feed my family at supper, that would cost me a minimum of 24.00 per supper meal!

Yet you buy hamburger that's not all beef an buy ground beef for 2.29 a lb,Not smart.So lets grind the whole animal less offal but lets include heart an liver in your burger,WHAT price will the boned 560#cow be live on the hoof less labor?????Made into whole burger, cow price is$1374.00 at a labor cost of$4. 23 cents per animal.Lot a profit from retail to packer I say!!Could some one validate??//

I have to laugh at your claim. I have seen tons and tons of ground beef made. I have never seen anything in the mix but lean beef and 50/50 beef trim. Please clarify where and when you have witnessed liver and heart being placed in ground beef.

A second laugh. Your latter implication about packer profits clearly dislpays how truly little you actaully know. For starters, do you know how much saleable product is derived from a single cow? How much product is actually sold at the retial price? It goes on and on and on.......

There is a big difference between 'ground beef', 'ground chuck', and 'hamburger'. Just who do you think dictates the price of beef in the local supermarket? It sure as hell isn't the producer! It's the packer. They dictate how much they will sell the beef to the distributor for, who then marks it up to make a profit. Get a clue!

The consumer sets the price of product-always has and always will. Once you understand that procees then you and I can have a legitamate debate. If it was the packer as you claim then why do they not price ground beef at $10.00 per poound? You know they are so greedy! Oops, I guess you just got clued in!!

 

[agman]

Agman, I believe that Porker was refering to the difference between product labeled "ground beef" and product labelled "hamburger".
The way it was explained to me is, "ground beef" is indeed ground muscle meat and possibly added fat. "Hamburger" if labelled as such, may contain organ meat and ???????
Is this not correct??? Just asking an honest question.

Tim you are right.

The organ meat is sometimes added at the retail shop. I have seen a local store grind heart onto hamburger after the color had oxidized and the meat was grey, the heart made it red and allowed a further couple days of red color to sell the package. One customer that got it sure wasn't happy.

Besides organ meat hamburger can contain a percentage of floor sweepings.

The moral of the story is be very careful if you buy hamburger! Buy ground beef and pay the few cents more.

Jason, clarify if this is a locally owned shop or a major retailer. Thanks

 

[Sandhusker]

johanns: Johanns said reopening the border was vital for the domestic cattle business. He said beef prices in the United States have risen too high since May 2003, when the border was closed after Canada's first case of mad cow disease.

If beef supplies don't increase and drive down prices, "American consumers will start choosing other sources of protein," he told reporters after the meeting.

just goes to show that sandhusker took the quote out of context. johanns was making the point that beef is overpriced relative to other choices. the usda blamers (for all that is wrong with the american beef industry) will latch onto any figment of their imagination in order to advance the cause.

Actually, the same arguement could be made that hog and chicken prices haven't kept up with inflation, either.

I did make one error, though. Johanns said BEEF prices are too high and I started talking about CATTLE prices. When the AMI spokesperson made the comment that ranchers needed to quit worrying about their checkbooks so the poor mothers could afford beef, she made that same error as the ranchers around here are selling cattle. :wink: She should of directed that comment towards those that are selling beef. Oooops, that would of included her employers! :lol: :lol:

 

[agman]

Unfortunately, beef started losing ground to the competing meats in the second quarter of 2004. The consumer has and is continuing to vote today and beef is losing consumer dollars to pork and chicken. Beef demand declined approximately 2% in the first quarter of 2005. It is worse this quarter

Agman, in your opinion, what was the reason for this decrease in "demand", was it price? Was the demand decrese only in commodity beef?

What do you think the equilbrium price of beef is? Maybe the US has realized it. Do you think that there is potential to raise this equilbrium price with individual ID and/or branded beef products? Are the consumers willing to pay for what they are asking for?

Thanks for the feedback!

Initially, the high cost of beef relative to the competing meats undermined beef demand. Since that time evidence has mounted and is quite clear that the High Protein Diet craze has also peaked. Compounding these developments is the sharp increase in energy costs which is a direct reduction in consumer's discretionary income, some of which would be spent on beef.

The reduction in demand is across the board. However, since low income earners are the most impacted by high energy costs the latter has impacted commodity beef more so than branded product which is consumed by a different income group.

I believe the retail price, using the choice series, that will clear product is approximately $3.85 per pound. It is currently $4.25 per pound. Such a reduction in price would lower fed cattle prices by approximately $10.00/cwt. The peak this winter was $94.00/cwt. As such, fed cattle prices below $84.00/cwt should begin to price some consumers back into the beef market. This assumes all other factors remain equal. The problem is those other factors are not remaining equal. Seasonally, beef demand continues to decline through July and early August. Pork and chicken prices have also declined. Therefore, beef has gained little price advantage on the competing meats to-date. Energy prices will remain high and advance into Labor Day.

On the supply side fed cattle are posting record high carcass weights. YTD beef production is DOWN 267 million pounds from last year. Beef production will increase above year ago levels during the second-half of this year. Fed cattle prices will be challenged to hold $80.00/cwt this summer; the result of more production and seasonally weaker beef demand.

Branded product will aid in raising the equilibrium price. However, as more processors pursue that market price pressures will soon develop. While it is the correct path to pursue its benefits will be slower and more difficult to realize than most realize today. Remember, branding product costs money. There is a finite group who can and will pay the higher price required to make branded product profitable on a large scale.

MID or VID will provide tremendous benefit for those who choose to use it as a tool to better monitor and improve their herd performance. Enormous gains can be achieved by producers in that area $$$$$. That is the positive and residual learned benefit of MID in Europe. It did little if anything to increase consumer demand. I expect the same results here. Thanks for the excellent questions. Have a great day. agman

 

[Murgen]

Thanks for the comments Agman!

 

[Anonymous]

Agman, I believe that Porker was refering to the difference between product labeled "ground beef" and product labelled "hamburger".
The way it was explained to me is, "ground beef" is indeed ground muscle meat and possibly added fat. "Hamburger" if labelled as such, may contain organ meat and ???????
Is this not correct??? Just asking an honest question.

Tim you are right.

The organ meat is sometimes added at the retail shop. I have seen a local store grind heart onto hamburger after the color had oxidized and the meat was grey, the heart made it red and allowed a further couple days of red color to sell the package. One customer that got it sure wasn't happy.

Besides organ meat hamburger can contain a percentage of floor sweepings.

The moral of the story is be very careful if you buy hamburger! Buy ground beef and pay the few cents more.

Jason, clarify if this is a locally owned shop or a major retailer. Thanks

Agman- Could this be the reason more consumers are requesting labeling? As to what goes into that package that was packaged by your precious packers and retailers and to where it came from?

You need to get out of the skyscraper and see what is happening in the "real world".....Wait until you see what goes into hot dogs - which I know longer eat either.......

 

[agman]

Tim you are right.

The organ meat is sometimes added at the retail shop. I have seen a local store grind heart onto hamburger after the color had oxidized and the meat was grey, the heart made it red and allowed a further couple days of red color to sell the package. One customer that got it sure wasn't happy.

Besides organ meat hamburger can contain a percentage of floor sweepings.

The moral of the story is be very careful if you buy hamburger! Buy ground beef and pay the few cents more.

Jason, clarify if this is a locally owned shop or a major retailer. Thanks

Agman- Could this be the reason more consumers are requesting labeling? As to what goes into that package that was packaged by your precious packers and retailers and to where it came from?

You need to get out of the skyscraper and see what is happening in the "real world".....Wait until you see what goes into hot dogs - which I know longer eat either.......

Don't confuse what one unscrupulous local may do versus what processors do. Personally, if I saw anyone at any level doing this I would turn them into the appropriate authority. Hot dogs are a different matter and they are labeled as such. I believe I spend more time in the real world than you do OT. That is why I don't spend my time complaining!!

 

[agman]

Agman - do you have any data on Horizon organic dairy product sales? Or various brands of organic eggs, such as Safeway? My impression from young people is that they are buying these "brands" in larger numbers than you would think, which might also be a predictor for branded meats, including beef especially. I am talking about the kids in college now, about to graduate, and those a couple of years out only. At college campuses there seems to be a general trend towards food consciousness, at least in the 20 or so my son's friends represent (which I admit are all East Coast based but both private and public).

I do not have any specific data on Horizon. It is in my local Safeway and appears to have a good turnover. Yes, organic sales are growing and project to grow at a faster rate than non-organic sales. Organic is the in-thing for the young, the old and the depressed! However, as the market becomes large enough bigger producers will arrive on the seen and margins will be reduced. Excessive profits in any sector are very short lived in our economic system.

 

[TimH]

Agman- "Don't confuse what one unscrupulous local may do versus what processors do. "

Point taken... But...... Jason is in Alberta, I am in Manitoba and Porker is in Michigan (or Minnesota,can't remember).Literally thousands of miles between us. Hardly "local"!!!
If the specs are the same for "ground beef" and "hamburger" why are they not labelled either "ground beef" or "hamburger",period, instead of one or the other???
To be more clear, what is the difference between hamburger and ground beef????? If they are the same thing why are they not called the same thing?????