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Beef Safety and Reason.....can they co-exist on this site?

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Tex

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mrj, here are some things you can not refute:

1) Beef consumption is down

2) Poultry consumption is up

3) There have been many articles declaring that skinless poultry breast meat is healthier than beef. They forget that that is only one part of the chicken. Where is the comparison with a piece of fried leg and thigh portion from the NCBA controlled checkoff?

4) NCBA is too scared to fight this tactic because the NCBA includes the largest poultry producer in the world.
 

Mike

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MRJ has been hitting the gin again. For several years there has been an "instantaneous" and "inexpensive" E-Coli test kit available to packers and other food source manipulators. All E-Coli could be stopped dead in it's tracks if it weren't for the fact that the FSIS allows E-Coli contaminated beef to be used for "cooked beef" products.
*******************************************************
Instantaneous E-Coli Test

BERKELEY, CA
(Dec. 12, 1996)
A new inexpensive diagnostic test will for the first time allow instantaneous detection of the toxic strain of E. coli bacteria responsible for several recent food-poisoning outbreaks.


The E. coli strain 0157:H7 was responsible for recent illness and deaths in the United States involving fruit drinks and fast-food hamburgers. The same strain also caused an outbreak of food poisoning in Japan, and a current outbreak in Scotland that is linked to 10 deaths.

The best test available up until now required the use of tissue culture and a wait of at least 24 hours. The new test involves a nice combination of basic biology and high-tech sensors. The working part of the sensor consists of a single molecule fabricated into a thin film. This molecule has a two-part composite structure. The surface of the molecule binds the bacteria, while the backbone underlying this surface a color-changing signaling system.

"We have made synthetic surfaces that mimic the unique cellular binding sites for the toxins produced by E. coli 0157:H7 interactions. When these toxins are produced, they hunt around for places to bind. When they find the right receptor site, they attempt to bind. This activity in humans causes disease. In the sensor, it is what triggers the color change." explained Raymond Stevens, a chemist at the Ernest Orlando Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory where the test was developed.

The backbone of the sensor molecule is composed of a long diacetylene lipid, a molecule similar to the phospholipids that are the building blocks for cell membranes. Exposure to UV light links the molecules together by activating a triple bond within the diacetylene lipids, creating a blue-tinted polydiacetylene (PDA) film. PDA films are sensitive to changes on their surface as manifested by the wavelength of light they transmit. When E. coli 0157:H7 toxins bind to their synthetic membrane surface, the backbone chain of PDA reorganizes. The sensor that was blue turns red.

Says Stevens, "These sensors have been designed so that the presence of this strain of E. coli causes a color change, from blue to red. The greater the color change in the sensor, the higher the concentration of 0157:H7. The color change is instantaneous. We can make an inexpensive sensor that can be placed on a number of different materials such as plastic, paper, or glass. The cost of the sensor is so nominal that it could be part of a bottle cap or container lid. If you open the product and the sensor has turned from blue to red, then you have a contaminated food product."

With the ability to instantly detect 0157:H7, health authorities would have a powerful new weapon to combat what has been a continuing series of outbreaks. These include more than 380 cases of food poisoning and 10 deaths in Scotland this month, all linked to tainted meat; more than 60 confirmed cases of infections linked to unpasteurized fruit juice in late October; 9,400 cases of food poisoning in Japan during the Summer of 1995; and illness involving sausage and hamburger meat contamination in the U.S. in 1993 and 1994.

The 0157:H7 strain thrives in animal fecal material which is why it often shows up in meat. Pasteurization of milk and juices -- a simple treatment with heat -- can kill the organism as can thorough cooking of meats. Children and the elderly are particularly susceptible to infections. Symptoms include diarrhea and internal bleeding, and death can result.





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RobertMac

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Longcut said:
RobertMac said:
Some of you people are unbelievable! Beef is OUR product...if the consumer doesn't perceive it as SAFE and HEALTHY, they are going to buy less of it. They buy less beef, your cattle are worth less(I would think you Canadians had that figured out by now). Who is responsible for turning cattle into SAFE beef??????????????????????

"Enjoy those steaks folks, they taste simply devine huh??" If you are a beef producer and support that I would say that you are the one who is unbelievable.

Tell me, Longcut, what do you disagree with what I SAID?????
 

RobertMac

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HACCP = Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point
mrj, what is the most critical point for E.coli 0157:H7 contamination of beef from birthing the calf to the meat being sold to the consumer?

No one is advocating for perfection. As my FSIS inspector told me that the only way to state "100% E.coli free" would be to test every piece of meat...and then you wouldn't have any meat to sell!!!! Like you say(and I agree with you) there are plenty of groups that would like to do away with the beef industry. That is why we can tolerate big recalls...a couple thousand pounds recall is an accident...multi-million pounds recall is negligent and something we producers shouldn't tolerate.
 

Sandhusker

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MRJ, "Sandhusker, You, as usual, ignore the FACT that the incidences of e coli DROPPED more than 70% for several years. Those were YEARS of success that can only be ignored by people like yourself with an agenda to promote. That success continued UNTIL some people made mistakes (at the Topps plant) and the e coli got tougher and/or found ways around the protocols being used to stop it. "

Tell that to the people who got sick and those who are buying chicken instead of beef after hearing of recall after recall. You’re not getting it.

MRJ, "The latter requires more detective work to find the source of the problems."

The source is always a packer. That is the only place where crap and meat are under the same roof. Other than you not wanting to admit that, I don’t understand why you struggle with that fact so much.

MRJ, “Proper hygienic personal and food preparation practices in homes and businesses to prevent cross contamination and illness in the rare case when e coli contaminated product does make it past all the other barriers is also just common sense.”

I agree, but again, you’re counting on high school kids, stoners, and assorted “burger flippers”. We already know that doesn’t work. It is possible to learn from a mistake?

MRJ, “Sandhusker,what fool-proof method do you recommend to remove flecks of manure, or to sterilize it before the critter walks into the packing plant?”

40 years ago, we had the technology to put a man on the moon. I would like to think that today we are able to wipe crap off of a carcass.

MRJ, “Sandhusker, do you know for a fact that fecal contamination in the packing plant is the ONLY source of e coli contamination of beef? I'm quite sure it is not…”

THEN TELL US WHERE ELSE IT COMES FROM.

MRJ, “Sandhusker, you make it very clear that you do not believe the packers actually are losing money, or that hiring only super intelligent, well educated and motivated workers for all food preparation steps would raise food costs to where few could afford to buy anything, let alone beef! What are you planning.........for food production costs to be paid by government????”

Workers that can speak and read English translates to “super intelligent, well educated, and motivated”?

MRJ, “I want packing plants and workers and all food products to be the best and safest thay they can be. I also want people from all walks of life to be able to afford to eat! That is not mutually exclusive, but your 'dream system' of snails pace chains, fantasy quality workers, and more inspectors than workers would make it quite impossible”

If the status quo that you are defending continues where we keep letting the guilty go unaccountable, people affording beef will not be a problem – finding people what want to eat a product with a reputation for making you sick will.

What percentage of your NCBA dues go to the AMI? Do you get a double membership 2-for-1 deal?
 

Mrs.Greg

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Longcut said:
bse-tester said:
On one visit to a slaughter facility I talked with a group of guys who were wearing their chain-mail gloves used when boning. Every single one of those guys had at various times, cut themselves and bled on the cutting table. One guy sliced his finger so bad it almost came off. When asked if the line was stopped and the blood was cleaned from the table and the area sanitized, they simply laughed and gave me the look that says only one thing - NOPE!

So where do you draw the line in the sand??

Enjoy those steaks folks, they taste simply devine huh??

Yes our steaks do taste great despite people like you telling our customers otherwise! Spreading third hand stories that target our product is an odd way of trying to convince cattlemen to support you in acceptance of your test.
OK RobertMac....Sandhusker,really what part of this statement is directed at YOU BOYS?????Is this YOUR beef Bsetester is talking about? What makes you think Longcut doesn't have a right to say this?????I want to understand just where in the heck you guys think Longcut doesn't have a right to stick up for his Country and the beef hes raising?????Its OK for R-calf to do that,in the name of thier country,fair enough BUT if a Canadian does that you feel its ok to take them to task.

I REALLY want to know,how Longcuts post to Bse tester is ANY of your business.
 

RobertMac

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RobertMac said:
Some of you people are unbelievable! Beef is OUR product...if the consumer doesn't perceive it as SAFE and HEALTHY, they are going to buy less of it. They buy less beef, your cattle are worth less(I would think you Canadians had that figured out by now). Who is responsible for turning cattle into SAFE beef??????????????????????

Tell me, Mrs.Greg, what do you disagree with what I SAID?????
 

Sandhusker

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Mrs.Greg said:
Longcut said:
bse-tester said:
On one visit to a slaughter facility I talked with a group of guys who were wearing their chain-mail gloves used when boning. Every single one of those guys had at various times, cut themselves and bled on the cutting table. One guy sliced his finger so bad it almost came off. When asked if the line was stopped and the blood was cleaned from the table and the area sanitized, they simply laughed and gave me the look that says only one thing - NOPE!

So where do you draw the line in the sand??

Enjoy those steaks folks, they taste simply devine huh??

Yes our steaks do taste great despite people like you telling our customers otherwise! Spreading third hand stories that target our product is an odd way of trying to convince cattlemen to support you in acceptance of your test.
OK RobertMac....Sandhusker,really what part of this statement is directed at YOU BOYS?????Is this YOUR beef Bsetester is talking about? What makes you think Longcut doesn't have a right to say this?????I want to understand just where in the heck you guys think Longcut doesn't have a right to stick up for his Country and the beef hes raising?????Its OK for R-calf to do that,in the name of thier country,fair enough BUT if a Canadian does that you feel its ok to take them to task.

I REALLY want to know,how Longcuts post to Bse tester is ANY of your business.

I REALLY want to know how my or RM's post to Longcut's post to BSE Tester is ANY of your business. :lol: :lol:

This is an open forum. Longcut can pm if he chooses. I just wanted to know what third hand information he was talking about - I didn't see any.
 

Mrs.Greg

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RobertMac said:
RobertMac said:
Some of you people are unbelievable! Beef is OUR product...if the consumer doesn't perceive it as SAFE and HEALTHY, they are going to buy less of it. They buy less beef, your cattle are worth less(I would think you Canadians had that figured out by now). Who is responsible for turning cattle into SAFE beef??????????????????????

Tell me, Mrs.Greg, what do you disagree with what I SAID?????
Alberta has a very high safety standard,regulations are not being followed if what BSEtester says is true,he should have reported it{IF he didn't},not come on a public forum implying that all beef in Canada{Alta.} is being processed unsafely. There is TONS of meat thats being processed in Alta. thats very safe and standards are high,this is a fact not heresay or a look :!: I've said it again and again I would support the test,but spreading rumours doesn't help causes.. thats pretty well the way I took Longcuts post to mean.You know nothing of our safety standards but all of you are believing what ONE poster is saying


Sandhusker...Touche :roll: But your right its an open forum and as long as you few Americans,and lone canuck keep spreading bs about Canadian beef being unsafe...I'll fight you on it :!:
 

Sandhusker

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I haven't seen him say "Canadian beef is unsafe".

Here's the deal; SRM removal is touted because prions congregate in nerve tissue. Problem is, there is nerve tissue in every bite you take. Also, if the prions are ingested, how did they get from the stomach to the nerve tissue without going into the blood stream - the same blood stream that goes thru the meat? Now, how can you tell me that SRM removal with no test guarantees food safety? Take on the message and not the messenger.
 

Mrs.Greg

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Sandhusker said:
I haven't seen him say "Canadian beef is unsafe".
What do you get from this post :???:

BseTester quote:

Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Blood

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On one visit to a slaughter facility I talked with a group of guys who were wearing their chain-mail gloves used when boning. Every single one of those guys had at various times, cut themselves and bled on the cutting table. One guy sliced his finger so bad it almost came off. When asked if the line was stopped and the blood was cleaned from the table and the area sanitized, they simply laughed and gave me the look that says only one thing - NOPE!

So where do you draw the line in the sand??

Enjoy those steaks folks, they taste simply devine huh??
 

Sandhusker

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Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
I haven't seen him say "Canadian beef is unsafe".
What do you get from this post :???:

BseTester quote:

Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Blood

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On one visit to a slaughter facility I talked with a group of guys who were wearing their chain-mail gloves used when boning. Every single one of those guys had at various times, cut themselves and bled on the cutting table. One guy sliced his finger so bad it almost came off. When asked if the line was stopped and the blood was cleaned from the table and the area sanitized, they simply laughed and gave me the look that says only one thing - NOPE!

So where do you draw the line in the sand??

Enjoy those steaks folks, they taste simply devine huh??

Where is the mention of Canada? All I see is a story about a packing plant not following common sense rules. If you think the story is untrue, go after him on that.
 

mrj

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SAndhusker, to answer your last and most assinine question with a question of my own: what on this earth makes you think that ANY of the dues of NCBA members goes to AMI????''

AND another one: WHY do you fail to understand (or is it that you won't admit) that NCBA members can see benefit of ALL segments of the cattle/beef industry occasionally working together on SOME issues WHEN IT BENEFITS ALL OF US????

You continually accuse me of "defending packers"......but that is NOT what I'm doing. I'm defending the BEEF INDUSTRY from production to consumer plate. Any cattle producer who does as some of your cohorts do, proclaiming "we don't produce beef" had darn well better get out of the business, because cattle ARE beef on the hoof, like it or not! Cattle producers MUST be involved in assuring quality from farm gate to consumer plate if we want consumers to have any respect for us.

I'M not getting it???? It is YOU who refuse to admit that it was/is important that efforts and protocols developed and used DID dramatically drop the number of incidences of e coli illnesses by over 70% for several years after implemented in 2000. WHY does that large decrease mean nothing to you? We can only estimate how many foodborne illnesses were prevented during that time, but it surely was as significantly less illnesses than in previous years.

The fact that incidences began to increase after a very large grinding operation ignored its own requirements to clean equipment and test incoming beef should make it understandable, even to you, that it isnt surprising e coli infections increased.

You also should be able to understand and recognize the fact that losing their business WAS punishment, and that there is probability (and yes, I certainly hope it is a certainty, but politics does exist, especially with the liberals in control right now, IMO) that fines will be levied and even damages awarded to those harmed. I believe there have been lawsuits filed for that purpose.

YOU are the one who does not want to admit sources other than bovine fecal matter CAN place e coli bacteria on meat. I've never said it is VERY likely, only that it is POSSIBLE for other sources to enter the plant innocently, accidentally, or carelessly (as would be the case with human sourced e coli contamination of beef). Small rodents can and do get carried into plants, or gnaw their way in, and can be VERY difficult to erradicate, and their fecal materials CAN be carried via heating and AC ducts, nearly invisibly, onto equipment and meat.

YOU fail to admit, or don't you know, that to get employees of higher quality, it is going to cost considerably more, but even more import than cost is the extreme difficulty of finding workers who are legal, can pass drug tests, and will work. Do you really believe packers (or any other business, for that matter) are NOT hiring the best quality employees they can find?

Do you honestly believe it is adequate "to WIPE crap off a carcass"? I know several different washes, rinses, and steam pastuerizing systems have been tried, and not all, if any, have absolutely solved the problem, obviously. But, it so much easier and self serving for you to accuse rather than to investigate to learn what has been and is being done by the industry in efforts to solve the problem.

I've repeatedly said how other sources of e coli can contaminate the beef. But you know that and just don't want to admit it is possible for other sources of contamination to occur. Obviously, you prefer to blame the packer than to solve the problem by searching out ALL possibilities.

I'm not defending any "status quo". I'm saying there is more accidental and even unknown sources and means of e coli contamination and I do not believe the problem will be solved until and unless that fact is admitted and tackled.

RobertMac, if e coli did NOT get into the gut of a calf or older bovine animal, it could not get into the beef, could it? Therefore, that COULD be the most critical control point. Right? Obviously, with hide contamination, it is NOT just a careless gutting of the animal that exposes the carcass and beef to e coli, so possibly washing the carcass WITHOUT spreading the miniscule fragments of fecal matter into the air, is the most critical control point. Taking the point of your inspector saying 100% ecoli free would require testing every piece of meat.........where do you go from there????

BTW, I have used, and won't hesitate to use irradiated beef, which I believe to be the most CERTAIN means of assuring e coli free beef, especially if immune systems in my family become seriously compromised due to illness.

e. "unaccountable": WHO has said that the multi-million pound recall was NOT negligent, or that producers SHOULD tolerate it????

But, people, PLEASE check the facts about e coli contamination and the difficulties of containing and/or controlling it! There is much to be learned, and not the least is the amount of time, money, and effort of SEVERAL segments of the industry, including packers!

What percentage of US beef was NOT recalled? While recent recalls SOUND huge, by comparison, is it really? While any illnesses and/or deaths are too many, we don't threaten or demand the slowing of production lines of the producers of cars because some who work in factories producing them and some drivers of them are careless and cause accidents, injuries, and deaths. We expect and get correction of any mistakes in production......just as we do for failures resulting in foodborne illnesses.

Recent recalls HAVE generated better, more frequent inspections AND more research to find more effective solutions to e coli problems. It WAS the Topps company decision to ignore its own HACCP program that caused the problem.

To innocent readers, I'm sorry for sounding a bit stern and "un-appreciative", maybe even slightly short tempered with Sandhuskers' comments and points of view. I believe he is damaging the industry that my family has lived in and on, with our grandsons as the fifth generation just getting a good start in it, in western SD. I do attempt to be civil, but do not always succeed, but can say that I don't give as bad as what I get on this site, either. Not a defense, just a fact.

mrj

mrj
 

Mrs.Greg

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mrj....I've never seen you be anything but civil. Its very easy for one to loose thier cool on here,The Old Boys Club,and trust me I've seen that you've been givin LOTs of reason,down to be accussed of drinking just because some don't like what you say. Keep saying what you believe,and don't let frustration get to you like it gets to me..... :)
 

Tex

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mrj, you are right that there can be human ecoli contamination, just a in other food service areas. Workers are required to have a certain amount of hygiene practiced in the plant which includes washing hands and gloves.

As far as rodent control, there should be a proactive program on that and all air going in the vents should be filtered. No rodents should be in the facilities and especially not in the cut meat dept. These are all business issues of packers, not cattlemen. If packers can not do these things, they shouldn't be in the business.

Manure should not be in the fecal tract when slaughtering. Manure on hides can be washed off. Carcasses can be washed off if in contact with fecal material. All this can be done if proper steps are taken. Lines could be slowed to allow sufficient time to do these tasks.

Some packers are too busy to take the proper steps and some packers like Tyson do not allow their workers sufficient time to go to the restroom when on the line. There have been times when the workers were forced to stay on the line and there have been instances where this lead to soiled pants. They also have been found guilty of not paying for donning the proper food safety clothings required on the floors. They already lost that case in the Supreme Court.

Yes they do have challenges, and yes sometimes something might get through. If you want to solve all their problems be sure you take off your cowboy hat and put on your packer hat. We can't have you mixing the two.
 

Sandhusker

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MRJ, "SAndhusker, to answer your last and most assinine question with a question of my own: what on this earth makes you think that ANY of the dues of NCBA members goes to AMI????''

It's so difficult to tell any difference between the two organizations, I thought maybe they had merged and I just missed the announcement.

MRJ, "AND another one: WHY do you fail to understand (or is it that you won't admit) that NCBA members can see benefit of ALL segments of the cattle/beef industry occasionally working together on SOME issues WHEN IT BENEFITS ALL OF US???? "

You're benefitting producers when you tell "untruths" about legislation and block niche markets for our product (tested beef)? You're benefitting somebody, all right - but it's not producers.

YOU are the one who does not want to admit sources other than bovine fecal matter CAN place e coli bacteria on meat. I've never said it is VERY likely, only that it is POSSIBLE for other sources to enter the plant innocently, accidentally, or carelessly (as would be the case with human sourced e coli contamination of beef). Small rodents can and do get carried into plants, or gnaw their way in, and can be VERY difficult to erradicate, and their fecal materials CAN be carried via heating and AC ducts, nearly invisibly, onto equipment and meat.

Rodent crap is a source of e-coli?

YOU fail to admit, or don't you know, that to get employees of higher quality, it is going to cost considerably more, but even more import than cost is the extreme difficulty of finding workers who are legal, can pass drug tests, and will work. Do you really believe packers (or any other business, for that matter) are NOT hiring the best quality employees they can find?

I have no doubt they are NOT hiring the best quality employees they can find! How can an ILLEGAL that can't even read or write in English be the best quality employee they can find? :shock: :lol: :lol: You defend sloppy work and unaccountabilty, now you defend breaking the law - all in the name of your precious packers.

I've repeatedly said how other sources of e coli can contaminate the beef. But you know that and just don't want to admit it is possible for other sources of contamination to occur. Obviously, you prefer to blame the packer than to solve the problem by searching out ALL possibilities.

At what other place down the line is there guts and beef under the same roof?

MRJ, "Recent recalls HAVE generated better, more frequent inspections AND more research to find more effective solutions to e coli problems. It WAS the Topps company decision to ignore its own HACCP program that caused the problem. "

You don't get it. Contaminated product shouldn't have gotten to Topps. IT NEVER SHOULD OF LEFT THE PACKER. Why are they allowed to ship contaminated product - with a "USDA Inspected" label no less!?
 

bse-tester

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So, here we go again Mrs. Greg. You now lump me in with a group that you state are spreading nothing but "BS."

Mrs. Greg wrote:

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject:

But your right its an open forum and as long as you few Americans,and lone canuck keep spreading bs about Canadian beef being unsafe...I'll fight you on it

Since you have taken up the fight for Canadian Beef you might wish to know that I too am involved in that fight. What you seem to conveniently forget is the fact that once your healthy beef leaves your farm, ranch or whatever you wish to call it, it goes to a slaughthouse and then is processed and sent on its way to numerous other establishments where it is sold as beef product.

Still with me Mrs. Greg???

Some of it is actually sent to smaller cutting rooms around the country as it is purchased as sides and then processed by these smaller houses and sold to a localised market. It was in one of these smaller cutting establishments in Edmonton Alberta that I witnessed - not third hand, but first hand - the fact that virtually all of the guys on the cutting tables had at one time or another, suffered servere cuts to their fingers, thumbs, hands during their daily work when cutting beef.

When will you get it through your skull that I am not spewing BS or anthing like it about your cattle or any other from any Canadian herd- I am simply stating that although your beef, which I will accept as being as pure and healthy as you say it is when it left your place, goes through a not so clean environment once it leaves your place and that is what I am writing about - NOT YOURS!!

Just because you sold it and someone down the line bleeds on it, spits on it, lets it fall to the floor and doean't bother to clean it too well, should not be a reason for you or any other producer to whail away at me or any other person stating that which he or she saw FIRST HAND was or is nothing but a lie or a rumour!!!


Mrs. Greg also wrote:
Alberta has a very high safety standard,regulations are not being followed if what BSEtester says is true,he should have reported it{IF he didn't},not come on a public forum implying that all beef in Canada{Alta.} is being processed unsafely. There is TONS of meat thats being processed in Alta. thats very safe and standards are high,this is a fact not heresay or a look I've said it again and again I would support the test,but spreading rumours doesn't help causes.. thats pretty well the way I took Longcuts post to mean.You know nothing of our safety standards but all of you are believing what ONE poster is saying

The manner in which you post is truly amazing.

First you imply that my statement was "third hand." Then you imply that it was "BS." Then you state that I should have reported it - which I did in fact. Then you state that I am coming on a public forum and saying that ALL BEEF being processed in Canada (Alberta) is done so unsafely????? To finish of your ranting you state that what I say is nothing but rumours!!

Truly amazing yet funny in a way because it is actually you that takes my localized statement and it is you that puts it inot the "all of Canada" catagory.

First of all Mrs. Geg. I am not spreading rumours. I saw this incident with my own eyes. I am NOT attacking your beef or anyones elses beef with my post(s). I am however stating for the record that the secondary handling of your product is not as pure and healthy as you think it is!

I cannot change that quaint little la-la land that you appear to be living in when it comes to the processing of not only your beef but all other animals that go to slaughter, but I can tell you that it ain't as clean and sweet as you think it is lady. Of course, I do agree that some of the cleanest and most well maintained slaughter facilities are in Canada and that there are also many in the United States that Canada could take a lesson or two from also and yes - vice versa, but they are not all in possession of a Blue Ribbon for cleanliness and good to high standards of operation like you seem to think they are. In fact, most are licensed only because they meet the MINIMUM Standards as set by their local/Provincial/State/Federal authorities.

So please Mrs. Greg.

Stop labeling me as a "...a lone Canuck who is ...spreading BS about Canadian Beef.." who is attacking Canadian Beef Producers, making false statements and spreading nothing but rumours and innuendo. I am far from that and it is about time you and some of the others here began to realize that fact!!

But at the end of the day, you are entitled to your opinion, but I would hope that you would base it upon fact instead of a misguided yet passionate sense of duty and protectionism toward Canada and its beef herd.
 

Mrs.Greg

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BSETester....our cattle are grass fed and finished,not for everbody but the demand for that type of finishing is growing,our finished cattle are sold privatly,prob 98% are slaughtered,cut and wrapped in our small town,a person could EAT off the floor in that butchershop. Don't tell me where my animals are going.

I'm impressed you reported that,there a protocol thats to be followed with any possible blood transmission,the companys your seeing in Edmonton not only SHOULD be following that protocol its reportable if NOT being followed. Look what happened in Veg. with the sterilization issue there,we STILL can't use our equipment because of that.Protocols were not being followed.



BTW...I didn't say third hand....Longcut did......ask him about his statement to you,I have enough of my own issues with you without you adding his to mine. :)
 

TimH

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Mrs.Greg said:
BSETester....our cattle are grass fed and finished,not for everbody but the demand for that type of finishing is growing,our finished cattle are sold privatly,prob 98% are slaughtered,cut and wrapped in our small town,a person could EAT off the floor in that butchershop. Don't tell me where my animals are going.

I'm impressed you reported that,there a protocol thats to be followed with any possible blood transmission,the companys your seeing in Edmonton not only SHOULD be following that protocol its reportable if NOT being followed. Look what happened in Veg. with the sterilization issue there,we STILL can't use our equipment because of that.Protocols were not being followed.



BTW...I didn't say third hand....Longcut did......ask him about his statement to you,I have enough of my own issues with you without you adding his to mine. :)

I gotta wonder exactly what good ol' Ron "reported". Here's what he said......

On one visit to a slaughter facility I talked with a group of guys who were wearing their chain-mail gloves used when boning. Every single one of those guys had at various times, cut themselves and bled on the cutting table. One guy sliced his finger so bad it almost came off. When asked if the line was stopped and the blood was cleaned from the table and the area sanitized, they simply laughed and gave me the look that says only one thing - NOPE!

"When asked...." ??? Was Ron even there??? Sure don't look like it. If he was, he would have KNOWN the line wasn't stopped. What did you report Ronnie, and to whom?? Something you apparently didn't even witness?? :???: :???: :???:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

mrj

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Sandhusker, it is only in your fertile imagination that AMI and NCBA are the same.

You also cannot tell the difference between an "untruth" and an opinion, apparently. There certainly is a difference between "blocking niche markets for our beef (bse tested)"......and supporting governemt rules regarding a test which is only allowed to be used under USDA control for science based reasons. If that is what you are getting at, far off this thread as it is.

I belive racoons, which do carry e coli, are rodents. There were quite a number of small animals and birds listed as known to carry e coli. Sorry you missed that news.

I've NEVER defended sloppy work and unaccountability. You are spinning, as usual when you have no facts. I believe most large businesses needing many employees will attest that it is hard to find people who will work at wages which they can EARN with their abilities, who are legal, and who can pass drug tests. It is a fact that business has to be very careful not to offend illegals with questions, and that there are excellent quality ID cards in the hands of illegals.

I NEVER said anything remotely close to defending breaking the law, but you know that,......only that it is difficult to find workers with appropriate credentials and skills to work in many places. Talk to those trying to hire at the mines and oil rigs in WY! They pay well and still have trouble finding help. Some say anyone who can pass the drug test will be hired and trained.......and the scarcity of workers in western SD sure does attest to that!

Your saying I believe packers are "precious" demonstrates your juvenile mindset quite clearly.

Sandhusker: "at what other place down the line is there guts and beef under the same roof"?

mrj answer: How can you fail to catch this? The e coli bacteria can and have gone airborne into heating/cooling ducts and contaminated meat, among the other sources.

Sandhusker, you are expert at beating a dead horse. USDA/FSIS has changed the inspection and testing, everyone knows it shouldn't have happened, but it did. They are doing the right thing in tightening up what SHOULDN'T have happened, that SHOULD have been caught by the Topps HACCP, if Topps had been following it. There is no excuse for Topps failure and they are being punished. Would you prefer everyone involved to face a firing squad? Bottom line: They are not ALLOWED to ship contaminated product. Rules were broken that should not have been.

Doesn't this all make you feel very justified in your belief that packers and USDA are united in a plot to cheat cattle producers and to kill off lots of consumers with poisoned beef just so they can have bigger profits and under the table pay-offs for USDA regulators????

mrj
 

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