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Big Problem, Need Ranchers.net Help For

R

Ranchy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
1,719
Location
scenic mountains of western New Mexico
This was posted on another board I visit (when I'm not hanging out here) :lol: . With her permission, I copied this here. You all are such a good bunch, and are probably familiar with the problem she has, so toss out whatever suggestions you might have, that might work for this gal. She's really a good egg, and I hate to see her in such a quandary. :(

So, without further ado, here's the deal: (and TIA!!!!!!)

you all on this board have been an oasis for me for a long time. I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown and I really can't confide in friends and don't want to worry my sister or mother about my well being...might be a long post but bear me out...

My husband's family has been in ranching for over 200 years...A very proud family rich with history. The ranch was given to the family as a Spanish land grant and thats why there is so much history...Every item of family importance was saved through the generations... Everywhere he goes he is respected as were his fathers before him.

He runs 9,000 acres..no easy task as he is the only son who took the ranch...but now we have 3 sons and again only one son follows in his father's footsteps. Eduardo moved his family down to help run the ranch with my husband in the lead. My son has been a big asset for my husband and my husband in turn has seen to it that my Eduardo and his family want for nothing. My son's wife is a good mother and wife and has not complained about lieaving city life for living in the country. Our grandkids are the most precious thing and the most fun to have around .

The thing is that the tension between my husband and son over business and how it should be run is very had to take. My son is very emotional and a very warm person..whereas my husband can be hard and overbearing. Eduardo has many new ideas I guess modern ways to approach cattle business and my husband feels threatened and chooses to belittle my son's ideas..husband tries to force his expertise without listening to my son's ideas..frustrating my son..who then comes to me and vents and then says that he owes his father much and that I should forget our conversations where he vents..but I can see where this constant tug and pull is putting a strain on my son and his family..and slowly I'm beginning to resent my husband's hard handed stubborn ways. In as much as my husband has financially helped my son and his family he tries to control they way they live..very critical..and insists on telling them how they should live..

I have had a massive headache for 2 days and my stomach is in knots..I feel like just laying down and curling up in a ball...

My husband and I have been through alot together and many times didn't almost make it but he let go of that bravado machismo with me and our married life changed for the good dramatically....but when it comes to business he takes no prisoners...and my son has a tough road to hoe with his father...it just hurts theres nothing I can do...
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Well sounds to me like he needs to do what is dad tells him to do bein that he is the one signin the checks when you work for family yeah its a family deal but the owner is still your boss . Some day when his dad passes that deal down to him then he can change things to the way he wants them , but until then i would say just do what he wants you to do its still his ranch , and if you dont like things that way then maybe its time to move on and find another job . But were ever he goes its gonna be the same way you can just show up and tell some old timer he needs to change the way he has done things for 50 years . Them old timers are pretty much they way they are gonna be the rest of their days and aint no body gonna change them . Think about how much stress its puttin on the old man too , as long as he is the owner he has the say so of how its gonna be .
 
I will post more when I have more time, but I went through some of the same with my Father when taking over my ranch. Almost all the give comes from the son and gains are made in inches. The best advice I can give is to get conversation going and in the end make it look like it was the Father's idea all along if you get him talked into anything. Also, don't expect any earth-shaking changes on the part of the Father. Things will be around 80% the same even after several years of trying to convince them to change.
 
Doug Thorson said:
I will post more when I have more time, but I went through some of the same with my Father when taking over my ranch. Almost all the give comes from the son and gains are made in inches. The best advice I can give is to get conversation going and in the end make it look like it was the Father's idea all along if you get him talked into anything. Also, don't expect any earth-shaking changes on the part of the Father. Things will be around 80% the same even after several years of trying to convince them to change.
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:agree:
Almost word for word my deal with my Dad.

And AZ s right, them old guys are the way they are. Pretty hard to change. He may not like things the way they are, but pride and stubborness may be working on him.

Maybe the younger man doesn't realize that the way the old man is doing it has worked for years and might be the best way to do things. Just because they are more modern ways, doesn't always make them better. I found that out the hard way.

If the son can't hack it, maybe he needs to go to his father and explain why and either leave or make different arangements. Thats waht it came to with me and my father. Still took a few years to get all the wrinkles worked out.

And quit puttin his mother in between.
 
I agree too.

We went through a lot of this. The son needs to learn patience, and the father needs to try and remember what it was like when he started out.

It can't be done without some give and take on both sides, and if the son is wise, he'll pick his fights carefully. He can quietly go about planning what changes he'd like to make, and just wait for his time to come. Who knows, by the time he is the boss he may find that his plans maybe weren't quite what what he thought they were at the time. Maybe Dad knew something after all.

In the meanwhile, maybe the father can be talked into letting the son start up a project of his own on the ranch. Something he is responsible for that will help give him a sense of having control over his own future. Maybe get a few purebreds, or some other venture that will help the bottom line for the whole ranch. The son could find something the father has no interest in actually doing himself, yet may be able to be convinced that it's got potential.

It's a gradual process that takes years. And that can be a very good thing in the end.
 
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

There are 2 rules to remember

1. The BOSS is always right

2. Revert back to rule number 1.
 
I think there can be an advantge toi having a partner who like different than you.

My folks were old enough to be my grandparents, so I never had a young father. Dad wasn't too interested in of the new things I learned in Ag. Claimed they might work on a small farm, but not on a westriver ranch where we didn'ty get that much rain.

But he did give me enough rope to try hanging myself a few times and was always pretty good about cutting the rope for me just before I strangled! :D

I wish I had a son on the place who liked the farming part and was a good mechanic. As it is, the one who will probably taking over, never had to help hay until he worked away from home. And that guy had good equipment so he never got to have all the fun of fixing broken equipment. :lol:

But, by the time he moves home, I think he will have some different ideas and attitude. Not that we don't get along, we probably think too much alike!

But he don't like setting on a tractor any better than I do.

This year is working out pretty good. I've got a couple neighbors who have just cut and baled up 110 bales. Looks like there is about that much more out there. I am justy paying them so much per bale.

For what it is costing me, I surte couldn't buy much haying eqipment. Pretty good deal for both of us.

Best part is, now I've got a pretty good fire gaurd on a lot of my north end.

By the way, I figured if I had 60 bales, we would make it throught the winter all right. We should have lots of grazing and with a little bean and this hay the cows should winter great.

I know that don't sound like much to many of you, but I figure I can winter a cow on a bale, in a tougher year.

When you summer yearlings, you dont get to run too many of your own cows, year around!

Dang, now that we've got hay I suppose my kid will want to buy more cows! :shock:
 
Have seen this a lot around here and it has broke families apart.. It is tough for everyone involved I think, I would almost rather have a grandchild take over this place from my wife and I than one of my kids as it can really be a mentor/student relationship at that time. I know it is much easier for me to deal with my grandfather than either my father or father lin law when it comes to just about anything. Grahdfather just wants me to learn and figure this stuff out and be there to answer any questions I have. But that is probably not going to happen that way around here for me and the kids so I watch from a distance a lot of the father son relationships around here..

I can think of one where there were two sons.. One went away to school, worked for some other places and came back with all of these "crazy" ideas like, gasp,. reduced till and some crop rotation while other son stayed at hom (Would never have made it at school anyways, smart guy but not the sitting in a classroom type) and did what ever dad said. Older son came home and was ridiculed for his ideas over and over and basically ended up going his own way and was semi estranged from his brother and estranged from his father until the day the father died. Now younger son is actually doing some of the things that older borthe recommended 15 years ago and lo and behold, it is workinga lot better..

I also watch another family fight father and son over direction of what they are going to do. Nothing major but still.. And of course I hear tons of stories of so and so passing away or leaving the farm to their kids and the kids having no idea how to do anything on the place besides be a worker because Dad couldn't or wouldn't let them in on the management issues for whatever reason... If you want your family to stay in the ranching or farming business and not just sell the place when you pass you might want to consider letting junior at least feel a bit more involved with some of the management decisions.
 
Pray for the Father's heart to soften but submit to his authority. Jesus was under his fathers council until he was 30 and he was the son of God!! Nothing sadder than a family in turmoil. Keep the peace and wait your turn and some day you can do your way. Until then cherish the time with your dad and learn from him all you can. I agree ith JB
 
Tough situation...I know we've been there, In reality the son can learn alot of great basics from the dad,and dad can come more up to date as far as the industry goes BUT until both realise each has something good to offer its going to be rough,and its usually hardest on the women of the household,esp mom,she loves both of them.

If they could just really talk and get things on the table,often men brew and things are left festering because of that thing called "PRIDE'
 
I agree with IL Rancher 110 percent. We personally never had to deal with this situation as we started out doing things on our own anyway. I have seen this exact situation happen though. The best advice I can give is for the whole family to take the Holistic Management course. I think that the head office is based in New Mexico. Part of the course deals with this very situation, but the whole family has to take it, in order to all be thinking the same way. It's a real eyeopener for young and old , no matter how much you may think that you know. The situation that I witnessed the old man was totally in the wrong. Just too stubborn to learn new things. His son took the Ranching for Profit school, came home and tried to get the old man off the tractor, and start thinking more about profit per head versus production. The son had just about given up ranching for good and had started working in the oil patch. The old man took the Holistic Management course( which is a lot like Ranching for Profit) swallowed his pride over time, realized that some of the stuff his son learnt had merit. They are now both ranching together and seem to get along well. The biggest reason is because they are thinking the same way and have common goals.Instead of wasting their energy arguing they are talking about improvements. If it wasn't for this course though, they wouldn't be working together now. And I see that green paint being parked for longer periods of time.
 
Seen some bad situations when father won't give up some controls on the farm. Then suddenly Father has past away and you have a son who is middle aged can't set the drill can't pull a calf can't fix anything and has no money to run the farm :!: By that time the farm or ranch has to be sold and the son has no off farm work exsperience and is left out in the cold :roll: Seems strange to see all the work that goes into some of the places go to waste like that. My Dad on the other hand couldn't wate for me to take over so he could spend more time Fishing :lol: :lol:
 
In the meanwhile, maybe the father can be talked into letting the son start up a project of his own on the ranch. Something he is responsible for that will help give him a sense of having control over his own future.
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Actually all of what Kato said made a lot of sense to me, but this particular statement speaks volumes.
I went thru this type of situation but it involved 2 other brothers along with my step-dad. Their direction was cash crop & my interest was livestock. I had no patience & left for a good number of years. Over the past years, we all have "mellowed" & now there is more of an understandin & appreciation of the interests & needs of all of us. I'm now home & have been given a chance to follow the direction that I want & will hopefully secure my future while contributing somethin to the overall operation.
And as JB said, they have atleast given me enuff rope to hang myself & hopefully will cut me loose before I strangle.
 
rainie said:
I agree with IL Rancher 110 percent. We personally never had to deal with this situation as we started out doing things on our own anyway. I have seen this exact situation happen though. The best advice I can give is for the whole family to take the Holistic Management course. I think that the head office is based in New Mexico. Part of the course deals with this very situation, but the whole family has to take it, in order to all be thinking the same way. It's a real eyeopener for young and old , no matter how much you may think that you know. The situation that I witnessed the old man was totally in the wrong. Just too stubborn to learn new things. His son took the Ranching for Profit school, came home and tried to get the old man off the tractor, and start thinking more about profit per head versus production. The son had just about given up ranching for good and had started working in the oil patch. The old man took the Holistic Management course( which is a lot like Ranching for Profit) swallowed his pride over time, realized that some of the stuff his son learnt had merit. They are now both ranching together and seem to get along well. The biggest reason is because they are thinking the same way and have common goals.Instead of wasting their energy arguing they are talking about improvements. If it wasn't for this course though, they wouldn't be working together now. And I see that green paint being parked for longer periods of time.
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Seems to me, right or wrong, good or bad, we all hate change.

When someone wants to change what we are used to and comfortable with, we will usually fight it tooth and nail. And no one wants to feel like they are stupid or have been doing things wrong. So when we are
approached with something different than what we are used to, even if it is proven to be more effective or profitable, we will fight back and drag our heels.

Look at the arguments we've all had on here when someone tells us about a different way of doing what we all do. Such as changing our calving season, or what we feed our cows, or how we work our cows.

If both parties are aware of this and are both trying their best to work thru' all of that, then it could be better.

Knowledge is power.
 
Sometimes arguing simply isn't worth it if one person isn't going to change.

I partnered with my brother after I talked our father to sell us the old home place.

Brother simply couldn't make a decision of any sort, especially if it was something I thought was good.

After three months and a particularly trying day, I got in the car and enrolled at the university. Got a degree, had a pretty good career and worked all over the US and a good part of the world. Retired at 49.

(P.S. I didn't get anything out of the ranch when I left, not even money for half of the livestock.)


Brother lost half the ranch due to an ugly divorce. I came back home, built a new house and eventually bought and expanded a ranch which runs 800 cows.

I have never been sorry that I dediced that arguing wan't worth it.

I guess if I made a mistake, it was that I didn't retire sooner, but our kids were just finishing high school.
 
Seen some bad situations when father won't give up some controls on the farm. Then suddenly Father has past away and you have a son who is middle aged can't set the drill can't pull a calf can't fix anything

I have seen that also. That is why a few disagreements are a good thing. At least the kid is trying to think on his own and not just doing as told like a robot. The key is a FEW.
Age of the kid is another factor. I was a lot like JB, Dad was bumping off 40 when I was born and had 27 years of being the boss then. I worked out until I was 22 so I could see the day when I would be boss. I know a guy who finally quit at 50 something because he still wasn't boss. There comes an age when the kid will lose his drive if he isn't allowed to be the boss.
 
The solution is to have a sit down between father and son have dad listen to new ideas and have a Q&A. If they still can't settle things out do a trial run the new way on a small scale. Prove if the new way is better or not sometimes these old guys have to see something working. Just a personal note I left a six figure income, girlfriend and sold a house to come back home and help my parents a couple years out of college. It has ended up me taking over the outfit because the folks passed very soon after i came back. I will say i was 25 when i ended up running the whole outfit myself and there are still days when i would give anything to have my parents back. Knowledge is something it takes time to aquire and having one's father around is really valuable, you don't realize how valuable until he is gone. The son needs to realize there is more knowledge in that fathers hard head than he knows. Sit them down and discuss things.
 

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