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rancher

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The archives are back.

Bill-I look forward to seeing those "facts" though it is funny all you have for proof is what you read on this site. Yes Canadians and especially American producers need to learn all they can about BSE from credible sources. There is so much BS and misinformation floating around the US about BSE it is incredible. The possibility of cow to cow or cow to calf transmission has not been mentioned in any news in Canada and it would be on all the news sources if CFIA was discussing it.

Rancher-from archives-Mad cow owner points to suspect cattle feed
CTV.ca News Staff
Dr. George Luterbach from the CFIA said while the feed is being investigated, there could be another explanation for the BSE transmission.

"A theoretical possibility is the transmission from a mother, late in the disease, to her offspring,'' said Luterbach. "We would investigate and remove the offspring of a positive animal.''
 

Turkey Track Bar

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Rancher:

From the scientists I've heard speak about BSE the vast majority of the time the disease is transmitted orally through infected feed. There have been cases (the number is less than one percent, if I remember correctly) where there has been transmission from dam to offspring. However, to date there has never been a case found where there was transmission from animal to animal (lateral transmission).

Now, that doesn't mean that it can not happen, but in all of the cases in the UK and other EU countries none were seen.

On a related note, just a point of trivia---of the folks in the UK that have contracted vCJD (the human form of BSE) they all had the same genetic "mutation" meaning that they all were recessive for an amino acid at a certain codon. I will try and find the research for the exact amino acid and codon. So, it looks like vCJD has a genetic component to the disease.

Other TSE diseases also have a genetic component, for example the sheep disease scrapie--so maybe there is a genetic component to BSE--I think there is some research being completed to determine if this is true.

have a great day and stay warm--the wind is indeed brisk!

Turkey Track Bar
 

Turkey Track Bar

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Rancher:


I should have probably stated this

"they all had the same genetic "mutation" meaning that they all were recessive for an amino acid at a certain codon."

different, particularly the "mutation" word--maybe it should read...."they all had the same genetic "code" for a certain amino acid at a particular codon." My brain just had a "fart" and I can't think of the correct technical term. Sorry. If I think of it, I'll post--

Cheers-

Turkey Track Bar
 

Murgen

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Turkey Track Bar, Here are a couple of links about BSE, CJD and Alzheimer's desease and the connection with certain protein genotypes and susceptibility.




http://www.heynkes.de/pubmed/ANDA.htm
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html#human
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html#Apolipoprotein
 

Turkey Track Bar

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Thanks Murgen!

I think that without a doubt there is a genetic susceptability to some TSE diseases---I know RR rams that have "quality" to them are valuable and bring lots of money! And, scrapie knows no breed boundaries. For awhile, most sheep producers thought the only susceptible breeds were the black faces, but in some herds (ours included) there were more qq white faces than black faces. So, I don't think breed has a thing to do with it.

I will have to do some looking and post the codon and amino acid that allows genetic suceptability for vCJD. I think I posted that once before a couple of years ago on the old site, so now that the Archives are again available I might be able to find it.

Again, thanks for the info.-interesting stuff!

TTB
 

Turkey Track Bar

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This is from a post I made Jan. 04 regarding molecular genetics and their relationship to TSE's....I'm glad the Archives are back! Thanks Macon!

" There maybe a molecular genetic component. In varient CJD cases (that is the name of the human form of the BSE), it seems that there is a genetic link. In England all of those struck with the disease are homozygous (MM) for methionine (isn't this one of the essential amino acids?) at Codon 129.

As well in some of the other TSE's there is a genetic component. In scrapie, resistance and suceptability are found at two codons. And I think there is also a genetic link in Kuru."

TTB



 

Murgen

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Turkey Track Bar, just a point of interest! You were right in calling this a "mutation" but the word usually used is "variance" due to the fact that some of these "mutations" can be beneficial and the connotation of mutation is that the organism might have three eyes, or extra legs.

As we learn more about TSE's, there are many factors that contribute to the cause: environmental, genetic. It's too bad that most of the emphasis is on transmission and not cause. If we found the cause we might not have to worry about transmission!
 

Turkey Track Bar

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Murgan:

Thanks for the word I was looking for. Sometimes it's at the tip of my tongue or fingers in this case and I just can't say it!

I fully agree that we are just at the bottom of the hill in what we know about TSE's--and I think it's very insightful that we look for cause rather than transmission too. I think in terms of BSE we know the cause---infected feed, so in that regard the source and cause are almost one in the same. However there might be more to the story too....and then to look at CWD in cervids--who knows what the cause is-to the best of my knowledge they have some leads in transmission, correct? Isn't it thought to be vertical? Thus when they find a postive in a farmed cervid operation they depopulate and then don't allow restocking for a stated period of time. Very similar to scrapie in sheep.

TSE's and diseases in general are very cool stuff. I wish I had more time to study up on it.

TTB
 

Murgen

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Turkey Track Bar: "I think in terms of BSE we know the cause---infected feed, so in that regard the source and cause are almost one in the same"

Sorry to disagree with you, but infected feed is only a vector, or tranmission mechanism. It is not the cause/source of the desease. It had to start some place and then be transmitted through feed, but that has not been proven beyond a doubt either!

This can be regarded the same as CJD, some cases are sporatic (no cause found) or genetic (inheritance correlation). If TSE all the same then it is logical that some cases are sporatic, some genetic and then others that are transmitted through contaminated means with a predispositon to infection!

If we look at the Kuru, they believe the CJD cases were Genetic, but transmitted by canabilism. The same as BSE, but it still does not give us a definite answer on cause.

You're right, interesting stuff. I saw a show last night that was talking about deseases and the FDA. They were saying that deseases are labeled as such after a drug company has a "cure/treatment" for the ailment. I'm try not to be fooled by drug companies, all ailments cannot be cured with a drug. My opinion anyway!
 

Murgen

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Sorry, lost my train of thought a little on that last post.

Drug companies do not classify an ailment as a desease until they have found a cure or band aid for the problem. But sometimes treatments are sold to cover up symptoms, and not correct the problem. Some of these deseases may have environmental causes, so drugs are only hiding the real cause.
 
A

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Turkey Track Bar said:
Rancher:

From the scientists I've heard speak about BSE the vast majority of the time the disease is transmitted orally through infected feed. There have been cases (the number is less than one percent, if I remember correctly) where there has been transmission from dam to offspring. However, to date there has never been a case found where there was transmission from animal to animal (lateral transmission).

Now, that doesn't mean that it can not happen, but in all of the cases in the UK and other EU countries none were seen.

On a related note, just a point of trivia---of the folks in the UK that have contracted vCJD (the human form of BSE) they all had the same genetic "mutation" meaning that they all were recessive for an amino acid at a certain codon. I will try and find the research for the exact amino acid and codon. So, it looks like vCJD has a genetic component to the disease.

Other TSE diseases also have a genetic component, for example the sheep disease scrapie--so maybe there is a genetic component to BSE--I think there is some research being completed to determine if this is true.

have a great day and stay warm--the wind is indeed brisk!

Turkey Track Bar

What I have been hearing recently agrees - there are cases of mother to offspring transmission but they are few and it is not clear always whether contaminated feed infected the calf. I believe there are some clear cases. There is also at least one human mother-to-child vCJD case which I just heard about. Calves and children are more susceptible. You are correct that there is a genotype (Codon 129 Met/Met is more susceptible) however (1) classic CJD cases include other genotypes; and (2) there is one case of vCJD that is NOT Met/Met - this is the woman who received infected blood transfusion and upon autopsy had PrPSc in the spleen only and was asymptomatic for vCJD. Would she have developed it? Are we only seeing cases of the most susceptible and the youngest victims and are the less susceptible, older victims incubating it? The recent tonsil and appendix study in the UK indicates that there are asymptomatic cases out there - are they infectious? will they develop it?
 
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Anonymous

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It's Reader (the Second) by the way, at work and therefore "Guest."
 

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