Hello there, I have 9 day old hereford bull calf whose temp is 103.8 (down from 105F) and is passing clotted blood. He is laying down in normal position. Gums extremely pale, rapid pulse. He will get up and move around when I make him. The clotted blood/ signs of infection have me stumped. I would appreciate any ideas with others experience with these symptoms.
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bull calf question
- Thread starter Sandee
- Start date
little bow rancher
Well-known member
any thing that runs a temp generally has an infection , your on the down side it's going to be hard to treat , give him some a board spectrum antibiotic sub Q with a three day treat and maybe a charcoal bolus to help coat his belly an intestine
Faster horses
Well-known member
And don't forget some probiotic along with the antibioitic.
That is a life-saver at times.
That is a life-saver at times.
burnt
Well-known member
An anti-inflammatory like Dipyrone, Banamine or Flucort works well alongside the antibiotic, making the calf feel better and eating again.
Faster horses
Well-known member
Great idea, burnt. I remember the first time a vet ever told us to
use banamine in conjunction with antibiotics. At the time it wasn't
common to do that. But it sure is recommended now.
use banamine in conjunction with antibiotics. At the time it wasn't
common to do that. But it sure is recommended now.
Thank you so much for the information. I did run across the possibility of coccidiosis. Does that sound like it might be a match to anyone? Anyone treat this successfully with drugs? Anyone treat it successfully with a natural anti-parasitic? thank you all for your time
Faster horses
Well-known member
Nope. You can only treat coccidosis with amprolium. I have heard of
Sulfonamides* but I don't know much about them. But if he is down
with coccidiosis, you better hurry!!
With coccidiosis he will be off his feed and will stagger when you
move him around.
Good luck!
Sulfonamides* but I don't know much about them. But if he is down
with coccidiosis, you better hurry!!
With coccidiosis he will be off his feed and will stagger when you
move him around.
Good luck!
I think cocci come in older calves. You probably have rota virus or corona virus. Maybe E-coli if it has been sick more than a couple of days.
It will be dehydrated and you have to tube it or IV it if it is too bad.
with calf prices as they are you might be best to haul it to the vet if you can't do the IV yourself.
It will be dehydrated and you have to tube it or IV it if it is too bad.
with calf prices as they are you might be best to haul it to the vet if you can't do the IV yourself.
I agree about the cocci coming in older calves as I think it needs time for the infestation cycle to be this bad. He was up and around on his own this morn but as he began with the runs again he has progressively gotten worse. He has taken some nourishment from his mother as the runs had substance but I decided to bottlefeed him with milk and an electrolyte mixture and a natural antibiotic to be given every hour. Are there signs for a particular "point of no return" prior to death that you can know there is nothing more you can do? thanks again for your time and information
Kato
Well-known member
Pale gums indicate internal bleeding, and that's confirmed with the blood clots he's passing. What could be causing the internal bleeding? Hard to say. You may want to call your vet, just in case this is a virus that could affect other calves.
As for point of no return, that's hard to pinpoint. I've seen some practially come back from the dead, and I've seen others that didn't look so bad just drop dead. If he's still up and wanting to nurse, that's a good thing. If he quits wanting to nurse, and he's getting too dehydrated, or is down, then it's IV time.
I'd take him off milk completely and switch him to just electrolytes. They can go a long time on those. You'd be surprised. Whatever's irritated his gut enough to make it bleed will be made worse with milk. The electrolytes will give it a chance to start healing. You could try some kaopectate to coat the gut. That may help some. It comes in a veterinary form.
But I'd still call the vet. You could take a stool sample in, and they could test it for viruses and cocci.
As for point of no return, that's hard to pinpoint. I've seen some practially come back from the dead, and I've seen others that didn't look so bad just drop dead. If he's still up and wanting to nurse, that's a good thing. If he quits wanting to nurse, and he's getting too dehydrated, or is down, then it's IV time.
I'd take him off milk completely and switch him to just electrolytes. They can go a long time on those. You'd be surprised. Whatever's irritated his gut enough to make it bleed will be made worse with milk. The electrolytes will give it a chance to start healing. You could try some kaopectate to coat the gut. That may help some. It comes in a veterinary form.
But I'd still call the vet. You could take a stool sample in, and they could test it for viruses and cocci.
Faster horses
Well-known member
I agree with kato on taking him off milk and put him on electrolytes,
for a xcouple of days. At one time we had scours bad in our calves,
and we had to do that. Then we milked out the cow before letting
the calf go back and nurse so he didn't get a big charge of milk
and start things all over again.
As for the vet testing for cocci, they always find cocci because all
cattle carry that parasite. There are two different things, coccidi
is the parasite and coccidiosis is the disease. In our area the vet scares
a lot of people when he tells them they have coccidi. Sometimes
calves (older calves as was mentioned) will pass blood, but it
is their intestines healing and sluffing off the damaged tissue.
It's when they stagger when moved or are sick and off feed that
they could have coccidiosis--an overgrowth of cocci due to
stress, etc.
Acidosis also can cause some blood in the stool of older cattle,
but it's from an upset rumen not coccidosis.
Again, good luck!
for a xcouple of days. At one time we had scours bad in our calves,
and we had to do that. Then we milked out the cow before letting
the calf go back and nurse so he didn't get a big charge of milk
and start things all over again.
As for the vet testing for cocci, they always find cocci because all
cattle carry that parasite. There are two different things, coccidi
is the parasite and coccidiosis is the disease. In our area the vet scares
a lot of people when he tells them they have coccidi. Sometimes
calves (older calves as was mentioned) will pass blood, but it
is their intestines healing and sluffing off the damaged tissue.
It's when they stagger when moved or are sick and off feed that
they could have coccidiosis--an overgrowth of cocci due to
stress, etc.
Acidosis also can cause some blood in the stool of older cattle,
but it's from an upset rumen not coccidosis.
Again, good luck!
I had this problem last year in my herd finally had the vet look at one and he called it over eating disease had me start giving everything a shot of Clostridium Perfringens types c and d antitoxin seemed to help I know it save the calf that he looked at. All I can say is good luck.
Over eating disease is a big enough problem here that we vacinate for it at preg testing.
I was laid up the fall of 1994 and my son was keeping things together for me (13 years old at the time ) and in talking to his friends did not want to spend the money for " all the stuff " I just did. But he did not tell me of the decision he made.
Fast forward to the spring of 1995 and we had about a 12% death loss to over eating - - - We have never again been tempted to save the few dollars it cost for a complete vacination program. I trust the vet I use and if he feels I need it I do so. He has treated my animals since 1971 and I really have a great deal of faith. I'm sure if he recommends something it is for my benifit and not for a quick dollar.
He has stated the disease comes from horses and that if there have been no horses on any of your ground for many years you can get by without the vacination. We currently don't have any horses but I'm not willing to take the risk as he stated the bacteria can live in the ground for up to 20 years.
I was laid up the fall of 1994 and my son was keeping things together for me (13 years old at the time ) and in talking to his friends did not want to spend the money for " all the stuff " I just did. But he did not tell me of the decision he made.
Fast forward to the spring of 1995 and we had about a 12% death loss to over eating - - - We have never again been tempted to save the few dollars it cost for a complete vacination program. I trust the vet I use and if he feels I need it I do so. He has treated my animals since 1971 and I really have a great deal of faith. I'm sure if he recommends something it is for my benifit and not for a quick dollar.
He has stated the disease comes from horses and that if there have been no horses on any of your ground for many years you can get by without the vacination. We currently don't have any horses but I'm not willing to take the risk as he stated the bacteria can live in the ground for up to 20 years.
Hello All,
By late afternoon calf was up and nursing and I ended the day by giving him his fourth 1/2 clove of garlic. I went out this morning and could see that he had been up at one point but was laying down again. He is getting nourshment still because his feces though runny has substance. My new dilema... his ears feel almost frozen solid. I got him up again and he is interacting with momma. His temp is down to 100.9 from 102.8 yesterday and 105 the day before. It was about 16F throughout the night, he is in a open shelter out of wind. The temp will not increase today and there is wind. Is there any hope with his ears? Thanks for the insight.
By late afternoon calf was up and nursing and I ended the day by giving him his fourth 1/2 clove of garlic. I went out this morning and could see that he had been up at one point but was laying down again. He is getting nourshment still because his feces though runny has substance. My new dilema... his ears feel almost frozen solid. I got him up again and he is interacting with momma. His temp is down to 100.9 from 102.8 yesterday and 105 the day before. It was about 16F throughout the night, he is in a open shelter out of wind. The temp will not increase today and there is wind. Is there any hope with his ears? Thanks for the insight.
Kato
Well-known member
Once they freeze that's it. Sometimes even big animals will freeze their ears if they get sick in cold enough weather. Ears are probably the least of his problems though, so don't lose any sleep over it. They'll eventually dry up and fall off, leaving him with short little ears instead. Once they're frozen he can't feel them any more, so he's not in any pain over it.
Normal body temp is between 100 and 103. If it drops any lower that's also a bad sign. Just make sure you call the vet if you get another calf like this. Viral scours can look like this, and it's a bad thing to get into your calves.
Normal body temp is between 100 and 103. If it drops any lower that's also a bad sign. Just make sure you call the vet if you get another calf like this. Viral scours can look like this, and it's a bad thing to get into your calves.
Faster horses
Well-known member
Probably no hope for his ears if they feel like that. And I don't think
there is anything you can do. But sounds lke the calf is better,
so you might have a live calf with frozen ears. Lots of calves freeze
their ears; as long as his legs aren't frozen you'll be alright.
Why did you give him garlic cloves? I never heard of that.
Our vet says Overeating is a good managers disease. We breed
cattle to perform and in order to perform, they must have a good
appetite. And that's where overeating comes from. Notice, it's
always the biggest and best calves that get it. FWIW.
Luckily it is easily managed. Plus a good immune system helps everything.
there is anything you can do. But sounds lke the calf is better,
so you might have a live calf with frozen ears. Lots of calves freeze
their ears; as long as his legs aren't frozen you'll be alright.
Why did you give him garlic cloves? I never heard of that.
Our vet says Overeating is a good managers disease. We breed
cattle to perform and in order to perform, they must have a good
appetite. And that's where overeating comes from. Notice, it's
always the biggest and best calves that get it. FWIW.
Luckily it is easily managed. Plus a good immune system helps everything.
Garlic is a natural antibiotic. A friend of mine gives her cows garlic for mastitis and she swears by it. I gave him another clove this morning.
Good news now... I just went out and force fed him a bottle with a cup of my own electrolyte mix (milk, raw honey, sea salt, baking soda) with kelp (for minerals) and made him stay up and walk around. Eventually he went over to a pile of hay and started nibbling quite a bit. Then, with a bunch of hay still hanging half out of his mouth, he went over to his momma and nursed for a good ten minutes!!!!! YEAH!
I have been giving him two homeopathic remedies throughout this whole ordeal... Belledonna in the beginning when his temp was 105F and within an hour it was down to 103.8F. Then, when his stool was green and runny yesterday afternoon I switched to Ipecacuanha. I got that information from a book.
To be honest, this is my first time doctoring a calf, as the few born here have not needed it. So I am really learning as I go and the vet who lives around the corner really encourages us to learn all we can so we won't need her.
I'm glad to learn about the ears not being a big deal. That is DEFINATELY a comfort, thank you.
Good news now... I just went out and force fed him a bottle with a cup of my own electrolyte mix (milk, raw honey, sea salt, baking soda) with kelp (for minerals) and made him stay up and walk around. Eventually he went over to a pile of hay and started nibbling quite a bit. Then, with a bunch of hay still hanging half out of his mouth, he went over to his momma and nursed for a good ten minutes!!!!! YEAH!
I have been giving him two homeopathic remedies throughout this whole ordeal... Belledonna in the beginning when his temp was 105F and within an hour it was down to 103.8F. Then, when his stool was green and runny yesterday afternoon I switched to Ipecacuanha. I got that information from a book.
To be honest, this is my first time doctoring a calf, as the few born here have not needed it. So I am really learning as I go and the vet who lives around the corner really encourages us to learn all we can so we won't need her.
I'm glad to learn about the ears not being a big deal. That is DEFINATELY a comfort, thank you.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Frozen ears are only a big deal to the order buyers when they are buying so they can discount the price. They are also an indicator of possibly frozen feet then it is a big deal because they don't deal with the hot feedlot rations.
