Bull Reports

[WB]

Highest sale I have seen was Van Newkirk Herefords 111 2 yr. ols at 7400 plus average with top bull around 11,000. These prices make AI look really afforable. Maybe keep your own bulls back for clean-up.

 

[Northern Rancher]

It really doesn't matter what you spend as long as the bull is worth the money-we collect any bull we feel has potential so he can be amortized out over a few hundred calves. A'I is pretty darn cost effective if you are set up for it-most times if you can control the water source you can A'I in a pretty big field. I think some of the best times I had with the kids growing up was riding and heat detecting-got a great pic of Ty catching his horse in the dark when he's 5-his first day on the job. What baffles me is guys paying huge money for a son of a bull that you can buy semen on for $25/unit.

 

[Hereford76]

Sometimes these prices make me wonder how much these folks buying have to have for deductions or depreciations on their taxes? Or how much moldy money is laying around?
Ranchers are famous for when the money rolls in- they spend it...

Do you need a $5000- $10,000 bull to raise good calves/cows :???:

I agree with you OT. The problem is that guys seem to think that unpapered cattle are no better than sales barn cull bulls or an uncut stocker calf - and they seem to pay accordingly. A neighbor learned that lesson. The moment he quite registering, his set price of $1800 became an offered price of $800-$900 as he had to sell at the sales barn, no one was coming to the gate anymore.

I know one local that said he needed a Char bull for his Hereford cows to make the high-selling calves. But he also realized he just needed the color to change from red to tan. Result? He bought two intact stocker bulls from the local feeder sale to be his new herdsires. Pretty sad looking, but their white, and cheap.

Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am highly critical when buying bulls. I don't chase the EPD's or pedigrees. I want a visual and the hard numbers. That's when I turn to someone like NR for a 2nd opinion because we both have the same idea of what bulls are worth the time to consider. He has a pretty good feel for the Hereford cattle in western Canada.

That being said, unless they are insured 24/7/365, $5,000 bulls can die like the rest of them. And I've never been a fan of insurance companies. I did find a bull I liked in SW SK, but I know he's going to be one of those $10,000 bulls, so I am out of the bull market for the while.

??

 

[katrina]

What's hard for me is the fact of once you start aiing you don't get out enough to see other bulls.. Even if I don't like the bull, I still like to see them.. I used to sit on the bull sale bench and try and buy bulls.. It was frustrating so I figured the money spent at a bull sale for one bull can be alot of semen for me use on our cows.. We've had some bad luck with bulls and it's not so tramatic if they are home raised. I guess it's what ever foats your boat....

 

[WVGenetics]

It really doesn't matter what you spend as long as the bull is worth the money-we collect any bull we feel has potential so he can be amortized out over a few hundred calves. A'I is pretty darn cost effective if you are set up for it-most times if you can control the water source you can A'I in a pretty big field. I think some of the best times I had with the kids growing up was riding and heat detecting-got a great pic of Ty catching his horse in the dark when he's 5-his first day on the job. What baffles me is guys paying huge money for a son of a bull that you can buy semen on for $25/unit.

I couldn't agree more, NR! As long as he is worth the money and does the things that you want/need him to do. Not only is that cost amortized by collecting the bull but that is your insurance policy too!!!

 

[Anonymous]

It really doesn't matter what you spend as long as the bull is worth the money-we collect any bull we feel has potential so he can be amortized out over a few hundred calves. A'I is pretty darn cost effective if you are set up for it-most times if you can control the water source you can A'I in a pretty big field. I think some of the best times I had with the kids growing up was riding and heat detecting-got a great pic of Ty catching his horse in the dark when he's 5-his first day on the job. What baffles me is guys paying huge money for a son of a bull that you can buy semen on for $25/unit.

I couldn't agree more, NR! As long as he is worth the money and does the things that you want/need him to do. Not only is that cost amortized by collecting the bull but that is your insurance policy too!!!

Thats great for a herd sire potential- but doesn't work too well for these folks that have several hundred head of cows spread out over thousands of acres...They can't/are not going to AI and need 15-20-30 bulls to get their cows bred...

A couple years back I was looking at a long time (multi generation) breeders bulls and said to him that knowing his past sales results that his bull sale would be the highest average in the region (which it was)...His reply was " I almost hate to see that as every year the average gets too high I get calls from long time customers saying they went home without a bull- or could only afford 1 when they needed 5... And we all know the ups and downs of cattle prices- and those folks that kept us in business so long when prices were down now have to go somewhere else to get their bulls- and may not come back"...

 

[Aaron]

Sometimes these prices make me wonder how much these folks buying have to have for deductions or depreciations on their taxes? Or how much moldy money is laying around?
Ranchers are famous for when the money rolls in- they spend it...

Do you need a $5000- $10,000 bull to raise good calves/cows :???:

I agree with you OT. The problem is that guys seem to think that unpapered cattle are no better than sales barn cull bulls or an uncut stocker calf - and they seem to pay accordingly. A neighbor learned that lesson. The moment he quite registering, his set price of $1800 became an offered price of $800-$900 as he had to sell at the sales barn, no one was coming to the gate anymore.

I know one local that said he needed a Char bull for his Hereford cows to make the high-selling calves. But he also realized he just needed the color to change from red to tan. Result? He bought two intact stocker bulls from the local feeder sale to be his new herdsires. Pretty sad looking, but their white, and cheap.

Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am highly critical when buying bulls. I don't chase the EPD's or pedigrees. I want a visual and the hard numbers. That's when I turn to someone like NR for a 2nd opinion because we both have the same idea of what bulls are worth the time to consider. He has a pretty good feel for the Hereford cattle in western Canada.

That being said, unless they are insured 24/7/365, $5,000 bulls can die like the rest of them. And I've never been a fan of insurance companies. I did find a bull I liked in SW SK, but I know he's going to be one of those $10,000 bulls, so I am out of the bull market for the while.

??

BR 52U Montana Standard 163X

So very tempted to throw out a bid on him, even though I don't stand a chance.

 

[katrina]

I agree with you OT. The problem is that guys seem to think that unpapered cattle are no better than sales barn cull bulls or an uncut stocker calf - and they seem to pay accordingly. A neighbor learned that lesson. The moment he quite registering, his set price of $1800 became an offered price of $800-$900 as he had to sell at the sales barn, no one was coming to the gate anymore.

I know one local that said he needed a Char bull for his Hereford cows to make the high-selling calves. But he also realized he just needed the color to change from red to tan. Result? He bought two intact stocker bulls from the local feeder sale to be his new herdsires. Pretty sad looking, but their white, and cheap.

Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am highly critical when buying bulls. I don't chase the EPD's or pedigrees. I want a visual and the hard numbers. That's when I turn to someone like NR for a 2nd opinion because we both have the same idea of what bulls are worth the time to consider. He has a pretty good feel for the Hereford cattle in western Canada.

That being said, unless they are insured 24/7/365, $5,000 bulls can die like the rest of them. And I've never been a fan of insurance companies. I did find a bull I liked in SW SK, but I know he's going to be one of those $10,000 bulls, so I am out of the bull market for the while.

??

BR 52U Montana Standard 163X

So very tempted to throw out a bid on him, even though I don't stand a chance.

Toss it out there!!! You never know????

 

[RSL]

It really doesn't matter what you spend as long as the bull is worth the money-we collect any bull we feel has potential so he can be amortized out over a few hundred calves. A'I is pretty darn cost effective if you are set up for it-most times if you can control the water source you can A'I in a pretty big field. I think some of the best times I had with the kids growing up was riding and heat detecting-got a great pic of Ty catching his horse in the dark when he's 5-his first day on the job. What baffles me is guys paying huge money for a son of a bull that you can buy semen on for $25/unit.

I couldn't agree more, NR! As long as he is worth the money and does the things that you want/need him to do. Not only is that cost amortized by collecting the bull but that is your insurance policy too!!!

Thats great for a herd sire potential- but doesn't work too well for these folks that have several hundred head of cows spread out over thousands of acres...They can't/are not going to AI and need 15-20-30 bulls to get their cows bred...

A couple years back I was looking at a long time (multi generation) breeders bulls and said to him that knowing his past sales results that his bull sale would be the highest average in the region (which it was)...His reply was " I almost hate to see that as every year the average gets too high I get calls from long time customers saying they went home without a bull- or could only afford 1 when they needed 5... And we all know the ups and downs of cattle prices- and those folks that kept us in business so long when prices were down now have to go somewhere else to get their bulls- and may not come back"...

The flip side is that very few of those seedstock folks would sign a contract guaranteeing the price and X number of bulls of given specs per year for say 5 or 10 years.

 

[gcreekrch]

I would sooner pay a good dollar for reputable cattle that are raised in a ranch situation than primped up show ring cattle from breeders who stay in the business for a shorter time than my trucks last.

Creech's family has been selling bulls to commercial breeders since the 60's. I believe a family that has been around that long probably has been successful because of the quality of cattle and after market care of customers.

 

[Braunranch]

I agree with you OT. The problem is that guys seem to think that unpapered cattle are no better than sales barn cull bulls or an uncut stocker calf - and they seem to pay accordingly. A neighbor learned that lesson. The moment he quite registering, his set price of $1800 became an offered price of $800-$900 as he had to sell at the sales barn, no one was coming to the gate anymore.

I know one local that said he needed a Char bull for his Hereford cows to make the high-selling calves. But he also realized he just needed the color to change from red to tan. Result? He bought two intact stocker bulls from the local feeder sale to be his new herdsires. Pretty sad looking, but their white, and cheap.

Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am highly critical when buying bulls. I don't chase the EPD's or pedigrees. I want a visual and the hard numbers. That's when I turn to someone like NR for a 2nd opinion because we both have the same idea of what bulls are worth the time to consider. He has a pretty good feel for the Hereford cattle in western Canada.

That being said, unless they are insured 24/7/365, $5,000 bulls can die like the rest of them. And I've never been a fan of insurance companies. I did find a bull I liked in SW SK, but I know he's going to be one of those $10,000 bulls, so I am out of the bull market for the while.

??

BR 52U Montana Standard 163X

So very tempted to throw out a bid on him, even though I don't stand a chance.

Not sure if he'll hit 10,000 but i'll take it. He is pretty cool but i'm a little biased. You can check him out and his brothers at www.braunranch.com

 

[river rat]

I don't really have a dog in the hunt either, other than the fact that we market a few bulls in the fall to the likes of Big Swede, and Soapweed for a small premium over steer price, and then send the rest of the good ones to Jorgensen's for their bull leasing program. We do spend some pretty big dollars on some sires, but with the same intention as NR, in that if one turns out to be really special, we'll have semen on him to AI heifers, or cows and that helps spread the cost out quite a bit. Some of the high dollar one's have worked great, and some have been flops. As far as needing registration papers, as long as your buying commercial bulls from a reputable source, I think your catlle can be just as good as spending tons more for a purebred, but it all depend on the source. I know a fella that sold a bunch of steers in Fort Pierre a few weeks ago who has leased our bulls from Jorgensens for at least 10+ years, and his steers topped the sale by 4-7$ per hundredweight over the other calves in that weight catagory. Big Swede's steers did the same thing awile back in Valentine. So if $6,000-$10,000+ for a top end bull at a sale is sounding like a little more than you would like to invest, and your looking for Angus, call Jorgensen's and ask about their lease program. I think they are asking around $1,000 for a lease, and the sales I've watched so far you'll sure get 5-8 bulls for the price of one decent one at a sale. Don't be afraid to invest some dollars in a good bull at a sale either, if your confident he'll achieve the goals your after. The one's that really turn out good were all good investments. But like OT said if you turn out a bunch of bulls in one pasture, I can't figure(and believe me I've tried) how you can spend $6,000 + for bulls and ever justify the costs. If you have a great one out there, you'll never know which one it is, and the same goes for one that is throwing bad ones. For those type of operations, I think leasing bulls makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Aron that bull isn't the only good one in that string-i spent a good hour on the website last night there are alot of good uddered cows behind those bulls too. If you need something bid on Ty or I can go do that for you. River rat I owned a bull with Murray Fraser one time that we drew for insurance-lucky we did we thought he'd moderate frame and were pretty sure he'd be a calving ease bull plus make some cows-he does all that very well but the big surprise was his carcass his sons usually are the high marbling-high yielding calves on ultrasound every spring. We are letting Murray use our share of the semen that is left on his purebred cows-I have a couple young bulls from there I'm sure will calve very well. The bull needs to be protected on his feet there is always a chink in everyone's armour-they aren't real bad but they aren't perfect-Angus are some of the worst footed cattle out there.

 

[Denny]

I've seen more cows culled for no milk and cancer eye than I have for bad feet. I guess it's in who is doing the talking.Each breed has it's merits.

 

[sic 'em reds]

Hey NR, I used up my last 5 straws of Lad last spring and got 4 real nice F1 heifer calves. Sure like the couple daughters I have out of him. Do you have much of it floating around somewhere?

My opinion on the high prices on these bulls is that for the last couple years, ranchers have had some extra money to spend, and so they are buying in the higher tier thinking they are getting a better bull to improve their herd. What someone thinks is not the top bull, is the top bull for someone else. In my mind, their is no better time to invest in good genetics.

I have noticed the quality of bulls has gone up quite a bit here lately, but I have also noticed alot of guys lost their pocket knives in the snow. There is a huge flood of in the bull tests I sent bulls to this year. Same as the feedlot where I feed our private treaty bulls. About half of them wouldn't have left my branding corral packing their berries. And its not just there, its all these production sales also. And this doesn't help the greater good of the business, no matter what breed.

I personally hope the sales continue to stay strong.

 

[3words]

I've seen more cows culled for no milk and cancer eye than I have for bad feet. I guess it's in who is doing the talking.Each breed has it's merits.

The neighbour runs a dog food business and he was over on friday to shoot two cows,both were black angus and they both had cancer eye,so don't say black angus cattle don't get cancer eye.Maybe they don't get it as often as a white faced cows,but i have had a few black angus cows with cancer eye now.

 

[Denny]

I've seen more cows culled for no milk and cancer eye than I have for bad feet. I guess it's in who is doing the talking.Each breed has it's merits.

The neighbour runs a dog food business and he was over on friday to shoot two cows,both were black angus and they both had cancer eye,so don't say black angus cattle don't get cancer eye.Maybe they don't get it as often as a white faced cows,but i have had a few black angus cows with cancer eye now.

Well a blanket coverage saying black angus cattle have the poorest feet is another exageration. Having seen my share of poor feet in all colors. The only cancer eye I've ever had were in a few herefords when you have 20 blacks to one hereford thats to many for me. But if were going to bash blacks I'll return the favor every time.

 

[Anonymous]

I've seen more cows culled for no milk and cancer eye than I have for bad feet. I guess it's in who is doing the talking.Each breed has it's merits.

The neighbour runs a dog food business and he was over on friday to shoot two cows,both were black angus and they both had cancer eye,so don't say black angus cattle don't get cancer eye.Maybe they don't get it as often as a white faced cows,but i have had a few black angus cows with cancer eye now.

Well a blanket coverage saying black angus cattle have the poorest feet is another exageration. Having seen my share of poor feet in all colors. The only cancer eye I've ever had were in a few herefords when you have 20 blacks to one hereford thats to many for me. But if were going to bash blacks I'll return the favor every time.

The only cancer eye I've seen was in herefords or in F1 baldy crosses...
Years back when I had more pasture than cows- I even had a deal with a local vet where I could buy white faced hereford/baldy cancer eyes cheap - he'd take them out- and we could share the profits off the calf they raised...But after a while with cheap calf prices it wasn't even worth fooling with- more economical to cut their heads off and buy decent cattle...

 

[Aaron]

Aron that bull isn't the only good one in that string-i spent a good hour on the website last night there are alot of good uddered cows behind those bulls too. If you need something bid on Ty or I can go do that for you. River rat I owned a bull with Murray Fraser one time that we drew for insurance-lucky we did we thought he'd moderate frame and were pretty sure he'd be a calving ease bull plus make some cows-he does all that very well but the big surprise was his carcass his sons usually are the high marbling-high yielding calves on ultrasound every spring. We are letting Murray use our share of the semen that is left on his purebred cows-I have a couple young bulls from there I'm sure will calve very well. The bull needs to be protected on his feet there is always a chink in everyone's armour-they aren't real bad but they aren't perfect-Angus are some of the worst footed cattle out there.

I know NR. There are plenty of good bulls in that bunch. The icing on the cake with 163X is that Braun's used him for a season and he came out in great shape. I really like to see breeders use their own bulls in their programs, even if on a small scale. It tells me they have confidence in the product they are peddling, and know what they are trying to achieve. I can think of a number of breeders, who, for the cow numbers they are running, don't use enough of their own breeding. They BS about how many new bulls they bought the past year at the show/sales, but they can't brag about how great their home-raised bulls are doing, because they don't keep any! Great cowherds don't come from the highest-priced straw you can find.

 

[littlejoe]

I've seen more cows culled for no milk and cancer eye than I have for bad feet. I guess it's in who is doing the talking.Each breed has it's merits.

The neighbour runs a dog food business and he was over on friday to shoot two cows,both were black angus and they both had cancer eye,so don't say black angus cattle don't get cancer eye.Maybe they don't get it as often as a white faced cows,but i have had a few black angus cows with cancer eye now.

Well a blanket coverage saying black angus cattle have the poorest feet is another exageration. Having seen my share of poor feet in all colors. The only cancer eye I've ever had were in a few herefords when you have 20 blacks to one hereford thats to many for me. But if were going to bash blacks I'll return the favor every time.

Feet? No worries---their hips willl go first.....