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Bull Sales

W

Work Hard and Study Hard

Well-known member
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Nov 9, 2006
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418
Watched about an hour of the Fairview Ranch bull sale out of Big Timber Montana today on RFDTV. Looked like a hell of a set of bulls didn't bring much money. Bull sales this spring seem to be really taking a beating. The January sales around here were about 250 to 500 dollars less than last year but the February sales are 500 to 1000 off last years average. If I wouldn't have filled up on bulls last week I would have probably bought bulls off the TV today. I don't know how the small time bull seller is gonna compete when reputation registered breeders are selling bulls for 1990's prices. I think a lot of Angus breeders are gonna get weeded out over the next few years.
 
Jim Brown of Lodgegrass,Montana told me ten years ago there were a helluva alot of Angus breeders in Montana but one day there'd be enough of them. Bull prices seem to be holding pretty steady up north of the medicine line.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Jim Brown of Lodgegrass,Montana told me ten years ago there were a helluva alot of Angus breeders in Montana but one day there'd be enough of them. Bull prices seem to be holding pretty steady up north of the medicine line.
Click to expand...

I think he was right. Down here the market seems to be pretty well saturated. There are only so many cows and so so many bulls.
 
If they get weeded out, it is their own fault for the most part.

Many of these guys are new, or sell 2-3 times as many bulls as they did in about 1996.

Prices were averaging about $2000 then.

Fairview is speculative money.

Maybe ranchers are getting tired of spending money on guys that got into the business to play.

The more of these outside interests that go down, the better off the folks who make their living from the land will be.

Badlands
 
I caught some of that sale 2 year old bulls selling for $1300 what were they worth as calves 7 to$800 some were future direction calves and that semen is a $100 a straw now.
 
I agree with Badlands. When it comes time for me to buy bulls you better bet that I'm gonna pick the outfit that has roots in the area and actually does the day to day work on the operation over the outfit that has an owner that lives 100 miles away and only sees his bulls on sale day.

From what I know about the Fairview ranch huge piles of cash are used to counteract their inability to do what most multi-generational seedstock producers take for granted, the ability and talent to breed good cattle.
 
I have been to a handfull of sales and not one of them have been good. The bulls were but the bidding was not. In Fact, a couple were very tough. Watched one on DVAuction yesterday and it was good. Looks like it comes down to the prgram. I hate to see guys struggling, and the next few years will tell the story. Goodluck to all of them.
 
There was a sale here last Sautrday and consisted of two Angus breeders and one Charolais breeder. Sounds like it wasn't a very good deal. Out of 113 I heard there was about 30 to 40 no sales.

Like WHSH said, there are only so many bulls that need to sell to satisfy the cow population around here.

Another thing is that some of these guys that spent good money on bulls the last few years are trying to get all the use out of them that they can.

As far as buying from big money outfits, as long as the bulls are good, I don't really care. They come and go all the time. They just need to make sure the manager is keeping his sorts and knives sharp on some of these bulls. Problem is with alot of these guys is that if they don't sell them as yearlings, they try to sell them as two year olds. If you have the money to speculate on them, go for it, but most of them that weren't that good at a year are not gonna be any better at two.
 
I watched part of the Bear Den Sale in MT a while ago. I missed the first 10 bulls, but never saw one sell over $1,900 and most $1,300. The registered heifers were topped at $1,100. What's there story, hadn't heard of them. Looked like decent cattle.
 
If you noticed with that Fairview sale- the biggest share of the bulls all went to Maverick Ranch (?)--First 5 and then many more thruout the sale....I don't know that outfit....

I don't want to start a Bull Sessions type argument-- but it is a fact around here that one thing that is dampening optimism are that many are waiting to see what cattle will be worth if the Canadian border is opened to older cattle and seedstock-- Comparing the price of cows at dispersion sales-- Top Canadian young breds are selling for $800- 1000 CDN($688-800 US)---Top US young bred cattle at Miles City/Billings last few weeks were between $1200- $1500....

Does that mean that with the stroke of a pen USDA will devalue US cattle by possibly $500-700? Or even half that amount?....

Might make a persons assets a lot less in a short time....
 
Oldtimer said:
If you noticed with that Fairview sale- the biggest share of the bulls all went to Maverick Ranch (?)--First 5 and then many more thruout the sale....I don't know that outfit....

I don't want to start a Bull Sessions type argument-- but it is a fact around here that one thing that is dampening optimism are that many are waiting to see what cattle will be worth if the Canadian border is opened to older cattle and seedstock-- Comparing the price of cows at dispersion sales-- Top Canadian young breds are selling for $800- 1000 CDN($688-800 US)---Top US young bred cattle at Miles City/Billings last few weeks were between $1200- $1500....

Does that mean that with the stroke of a pen USDA will devalue US cattle by possibly $500-700? Or even half that amount?....

Might make a persons assets a lot less in a short time....
Click to expand...

I agree with you OT, however I can still take a 2000 lb 6 year old bull in sell him for 62 cents and upgrade my bulls for $1000. I'd say I got a pretty good investment out of that bull. Now if they open the border and killer bulls go to 40 cents next years bull sales will be even tougher. I guess thats what they call fair trade though huh?
 
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
Oldtimer said:
If you noticed with that Fairview sale- the biggest share of the bulls all went to Maverick Ranch (?)--First 5 and then many more thruout the sale....I don't know that outfit....

I don't want to start a Bull Sessions type argument-- but it is a fact around here that one thing that is dampening optimism are that many are waiting to see what cattle will be worth if the Canadian border is opened to older cattle and seedstock-- Comparing the price of cows at dispersion sales-- Top Canadian young breds are selling for $800- 1000 CDN($688-800 US)---Top US young bred cattle at Miles City/Billings last few weeks were between $1200- $1500....

Does that mean that with the stroke of a pen USDA will devalue US cattle by possibly $500-700? Or even half that amount?....

Might make a persons assets a lot less in a short time....
Click to expand...

I agree with you OT, however I can still take a 2000 lb 6 year old bull in sell him for 62 cents and upgrade my bulls for $1000. I'd say I got a pretty good investment out of that bull. Now if they open the border and killer bulls go to 40 cents next years bull sales will be even tougher. I guess thats what they call fair trade though huh?
Click to expand...

Yeah thats what some local bull sellers been talking about, too...What the effect of the Canadian cull cow and bull prices will do to ours...You don't mind putting out $2500--$3000 for a bull if you know you stand a good chance to get half that back in salvage price...

The Canadian $25-35(US) cwt bull prices will have to negatively affect our current $55-65 (US) cwt bull prices....

The Billion $ question is HOW MUCH :???:
 
Oldtimer said:
If you noticed with that Fairview sale- the biggest share of the bulls all went to Maverick Ranch (?)--First 5 and then many more thruout the sale....I don't know that outfit....

I don't want to start a Bull Sessions type argument-- but it is a fact around here that one thing that is dampening optimism are that many are waiting to see what cattle will be worth if the Canadian border is opened to older cattle and seedstock-- Comparing the price of cows at dispersion sales-- Top Canadian young breds are selling for $800- 1000 CDN($688-800 US)---Top US young bred cattle at Miles City/Billings last few weeks were between $1200- $1500....

Does that mean that with the stroke of a pen USDA will devalue US cattle by possibly $500-700? Or even half that amount?....

Might make a persons assets a lot less in a short time....
Click to expand...



How many cattle do you think we have up here OT.... millions and millions? You better give those gravel stones a rattle in your head even if the border does open to cattle born after 1999 it sure as hell aint gonna flood your market.
 
I would bet with the ever increaseing price of grains alot of (EX-Grain Farmers Turned Ranchers) will be cutting back their cowherds to which they dont need bulls.I would bet the ranch that the cowherds in the USA and Canada will decrease in size putting alot of the hayfields and pasture into grain.The Ag industry is changeing you can either roll with it or quit 2 choices.There is alot of money to be made if your not afraid of change.Myself I dont care if I'm ranching or farming or feeding my feeder pigs any one of these jobs beats the hell out of working a Town job..

The reason that bulls are getting cheap is every Tom,Dick and Harry has bulls for sale the market is Flooded with a pile of Mediocure bulls if all they bring is steer price maybe that's all they are really worth....
 
The price of calves also drive the price of bulls.. Fall of 2005 when folks got 1.30 for 500 weight cattle you better believe they were were willing to go out and spend the money on a bull because they had more money to spend... It is kind of like the equipment dealers around here.. A lot of green paint is going into the country side because farmers finally have money to spend on new equipment.. No different for cattle folks.. When calves have droped 100-150 bucks a head on folks is it any wonder why bulls would drop 500 bucks? more? Lets not forget the pyschological impact of seeing prices of grain going up and folks taking about fats being worth more per pound than calves in the fall probably would take some enthusiasm of the buyers..

Denny is right about the hay ground being ripped up..In this township alone I have seen 1000+ acres of hayground plowed under this past fall and a lot of cowyards are sitting empty.
 
Denny said:
I would bet with the ever increaseing price of grains alot of (EX-Grain Farmers Turned Ranchers) will be cutting back their cowherds to which they dont need bulls.I would bet the ranch that the cowherds in the USA and Canada will decrease in size putting alot of the hayfields and pasture into grain.The Ag industry is changeing you can either roll with it or quit 2 choices.There is alot of money to be made if your not afraid of change.Myself I dont care if I'm ranching or farming or feeding my feeder pigs any one of these jobs beats the hell out of working a Town job..

The reason that bulls are getting cheap is every Tom,Dick and Harry has bulls for sale the market is Flooded with a pile of Mediocure bulls if all they bring is steer price maybe that's all they are really worth....
Click to expand...


I understand what your saying but in Montana and the rest of the midwest what can be farmed aleady is. Myself I am very diversified, but this is Ranchers.net and most on here make their bread and butter off of livestock. I have bought bulls this year that last year I couldn't have touched for $4000. I had a slug of older bulls that that continue to have excellent calves but are gettting up in age and won't be able to cover 4000 acres like they used to. The bottom line is when we in the US are all making money bull sellers and their buyers we are all happy. I like buying good bulls for a cheap price but I see the writing on the wall. Our market is saturated enough with US bulls we don't need to drive the market down even further with Canadian UTM cows and bulls. It's simple econimics and you know it and I know it. And then Canucks wonder why bull sellers support R-Calf. Money is made on the bulls average and the average is made at home.
 
Give it a rest will you guys-nobody in their right rational mind should of thought that the record prices down there would of stayed up forever border open or not. It gets a little sickening to get blamed for every minor disaster from a crappy bull sale in Montana to god knows what else-I suppose Britney Spears shaved her head because of canadian cattle. Why not keep that stuff over in Bull Session!!!!!!!
 
I personally believe in our area, NC South Dakota/SC North Dakota, drought has had a much of an impact on bull sales as anything. Last year was the worst drought on record. This trend continued into the winter, and seems to be continuing :cry: :mad: :cry: .

Cattle prices have been pretty high, so if you're tired of fighting for feed and water, selling the most of the herd probably looks pretty attractive, especially if you're older and can rent your land for the high rent prices that are being seen nationwide. I also think high corn prices have not helped bull sales any either. And, then add in that 2006 was a year of record bulls sale with lots and lots of bulls selling for high prices. There is a point in time when folks just have enough bulls. I know at our place we bought three really nice herd sires last year, and thus aren't in desperate need of replacement bulls, even for our commercial herd. Demand wise I think this pretty much hits it in our area.

I don't buy the border rhetoric here, OT.

The supply side is just as outta whack as the demand side too. There is an abundance of bulls, plain and simple. We've been told the guy who carcass ultrasounds for us had ultrasounded 500 more bulls this year, over the same timeframe and same number of operations, than he did last year.

At our place, our fire laden month of July and early weaning the end of July/early August helped us make the decision to cut more bulls. Lots of good young bulls got cut because of a lack of feed and rising corn costs. I know we did not catalog more bulls than last year, and maybe even less. However, if we had not had our fires/drought, our decision might have been different.

I say it's good ol' supply and demand hard a work, along with the added measure of drought.

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
I agree on the drought theory in this area. And the bull supply is up also. I look for ways to cut costs wherever I can and cheap bulls work for me.
 

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