Bulls......buy the numbers

[Hoop]

What are are your considerations when buying bulls? What do you look at first,2,3,etc? How much do the EPD's influence you? Do you look at appearance? Progeny? Reputation of the sellers?etc.... We have always looked for balanced EPD's favoring maternals, not going to the extremes, but if you sell seedstock you also have to breed what sells. Just wondering what others have to say.[/b]

 

[WyomingRancher]

I look at the potential bull supplier's cows first, preferably at weaning or calving time to see what the mature size/udders/body conditions are like. If I like the females, I look through the bulls and pick ones I like phenotypically, then evaluate disposition, then study EPDs of what's left. My goal is to have good females first since I believe the rest falls into place from there FWIW .

 

[Mrs. Porter]

With heifers we look for easy calving first and foremost - then other maternal traits. I agree that it all starts with the females in the herd.

 

[RSL]

1. Herd
- who owns it
- breeding goals
- service, warranty, delivery, etc.
2. EPD
- trim the list down (we generally only go into a herd to look at a very few bulls)
3. Phenotype
- feet, legs, mother, ultrasound, etc.
4. Price

In that order.

 

[Denny]

I look at the potential bull supplier's cows first, preferably at weaning or calving time to see what the mature size/udders/body conditions are like. If I like the females, I look through the bulls and pick ones I like phenotypically, then evaluate disposition, then study EPDs of what's left. My goal is to have good females first since I believe the rest falls into place from there FWIW .

Yeah what she said.

 

[Anonymous]

I look at the potential bull supplier's cows first, preferably at weaning or calving time to see what the mature size/udders/body conditions are like. If I like the females, I look through the bulls and pick ones I like phenotypically, then evaluate disposition, then study EPDs of what's left. My goal is to have good females first since I believe the rest falls into place from there FWIW .

I agree with WyomingRancher...About all I use the EPD's for is to assure myself I'm not getting something "extreme" in any area...I did the "bigger, better, faster" chase the "performance bull of the month" for a few years and was on track for a trainwreck...

I try to go with bloodlines from the old herds that didn't follow the high test hype- and stayed the road- and bred for maternal qualities first... I like the local (Montana) herds where their grazing conditions are much more closer to our own...And I prefer the smaller herds where the producer knows his momma cows down to every quirk- rather than them being just a number in the computer....

Luckily in Montana, Wyoming, SD- there is a choice of many good angus breeders- both black and red- that can provide you with any flavor, style, or octane level of bull you want...

GREG GOLDEN from the Cole Creek 2009 catalog:

"You know the real grassland breeder of Angus doesn't really have much to talk about. His EPDs ,just average. His weaning weights of 500 to 650 pounds, just average. His 4.5 to 6 frame cows weight 1,100 to 1,300 pounds , just average. But what do we have to talk about that are the non-numbered traits. The ability to convert grass, to breed, to stay out and to travel and still convert grass in July through December when the grass is dried out with no lick tubs or supplement feed. We are breeders with a conscience, and know good udders, good feet and legs, volume with an appetite and fleshing ability while raising a good calf are there because it is the type it takes. This type of cattle exist because of the natural culling by Mother Nature and the no excuse attitude of the grassland breeder."

 

[WyomingRancher]

I forgot to add calving ease for BOTH cows and heifer bulls. I'm starting to see bigger calves coming in my cows, towards the end of their first cycle, but nothing extreme so far .

 

[Faster horses]

I don't watch EPD's much except as a general guidline like OT mentioned--so that you don't find any extremes. Speaking of Angus, cuz I don't know much about other breeds--there are maternal Angus and paternal Angus.
They have crossed them up somewhat, but you can still find them in the pedigree.

I look at cow families, mainly because we are interested in the females.
The steer calves to us are a by-product of the females. Selecting
purely for weaning weight, in my opinion, is single-trait selection and
will get you in trouble at some point.

Watch the mature size on bulls on cows. In our country, MODERATE is best, unless you want to use supplemental feed, which we don't. Our cows get hay and mineral. Period. And sometimes the hay isn't the best; but we
mix it so they get some good with some poorer, if necessary. Time to make another point about GET YOUR HAY TESTED, then you know what you have...you are not guessing...best money you can spend...in the north country anyway...

Gosh, got off the subject.

Guess what I would tell you, IT AIN'T EASY...takes some research...and like an old fella told us when we got started...go to a good breeder and buy the middle, don't go to a poor breeder and buy the top...that has worked for us for many, many years.


Good luck!!