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bulls

Depends on ground the bull needs to cover-the roughness of the pasture. I figure 1 2 yr. old per 25-30 cows or 1 yearling per 15. This seems to work well, also if your climate is hot-that sure enters into the equation as the bulls tends to be lazier when it is hot. No more than a bull costs-rather have too much bull power than not enough. :wink:
 
MAKE DANG SURE YOU DO A BSE ON THOSE BULLS BEFORE YOU TURN THEM OUT IN THIS SITUATION!!!! Yes, I did shout that.
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Shortstuff - In My Opinion - you are sort of between a rock and a hard spot. A 320 acre trap is okay, but it depends upon what kind of terrain it is. If it is hilly and/or rough it may be a little too big. If the older bull is a pretty good sized animal, he may be a little rough on the youngster - or he may not! It is sort of a Catch 22 situation. Most of the above advice is good advice, but I know it is a hard decision for you. I think the bottom line decision would be determined by how docil the bull(s) are and what kind of condition they are in. Are you synchro-ing the cows at all?

I wish you a lot of luck with your final decision. I would make VERY sure that they ALL have a COMPLETE mineral supplement in front of them at ALL times through the season and year 'round!

DOC HARRIS
 
I've had the bulls that breed crazy numbers of cows too.

One bull I had bred 35 cows and managed to sneak off to the neighbors place 5 miles away un-noticed to service at least 10 of his. He must have always returned because none of mine calved late and he was always there when I checked them every couple days.

One I sold after I had bred 20 cows for early calving, he got out on the new owner a month early so he didn't worry for a day figuring whats a couple bred early? The next spring 24 cows calved in a 48 hour period, 1 month early.

I had a customer in Idaho on rough pasture stock 1-18. He would get 80% first cycle at calving.

OT, Trich can be caught by any bull, but the older bulls have more wrinkles so can hold it or hold more of it... so it was explained to me. Buying virgin bulls and culling open cows is the best prevention for it.
 
Maybe I'm hard on my bulls, but on a 320 acre pasture, with a few trees scattered around, if a mature bull can't cover 50 head and at least maintain weight, I don't think he should be around. And a yearling had better be able to cover 30 - 35 head, and still gain under the same conditions.

And I'm not too sure about running a mature bull with a yearling. I've seen the yearlings get knocked off a mount by the mature bull, and end with a broken tool. I'd run the mature bull for 3 weeks, then rotate in the yearling for 3, then let the mature bull clean up.

Rod
 
One thing I don't see mentioned here is temperature. It is a heckava lot different for a bull to be working in 70 F than the 95 to 100 we get here in July and August. The black hide color is not a benefit either.


We don't turn out bulls with the cows till after July 1 so we figure we need a little more bull power to combat the heat.
 
On this ranch, I wouldn't feel good about having one bull in a pasture with a high number of cows. I think the opportunity to get the most cows bred in the first cycle would be lessened. Calves born in the shortest time frame will be the most even set of calves; in theory anyway. We use up to 40 cows/bull on older bulls but always have multiple bulls in a pasture.

On another topic, I don't feel too good about cloning anything, but it might make it easier for those of us that don't have time to AI, to use the same genetics in a natural manner. Bulls might actually be cheaper, and you probably would not use them as many years before you needed to turn to another bloodline. Might make the registered business different. Interesting. :?
 
A few years back we split our herd in half. Moved half of the group to May/June calving and left the other half in March/April. The next year we moved that group to May/June too. Anyway. We didn't have quite enough pastures to keep them all very far away from each other. So we had all of the May/June calvers in a pasture that boardered another pasture for about 100 yards. This pasture held some of the March/April calvers and a 5 year old bull. We new he had crawled out and bred a few of the others but next spring we had close 40 calve that was suppose to be May/June and another 45 that was March/April.
 
Yep, all we can do is throw out our experience, and see if others can make use of it, as it applies to their own situation.

Like many things, as we discuss the points, the little caveats become more clear.

Badlands
 
I'd run the mature bull for 3 weeks, then rotate in the yearling for 3, then let the mature bull clean up.
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Rod- I think that is the best advice on this post! That eliminates the concern about the bull's fighting and getting hurt, and also takes care of the cow's breeding concerns. You get an "A" for Accuracy!

DOC HARRIS
 
George said:
I always turn a yearling in with a mature bull - - - the mature bull will do 90% of the breeding but the yearling will keep him active and will learn not to fall in love and will make a great breeder the next year.

Just keep it to the two bulls though as if you get anothet yearling they might team up and hurt the mature bull.
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This has been a really interesting thread to read. However, I've never heard of bulls "falling in love" with cows. How does this manifest itself? What are the disadvantages of this happening? I'm guessing you mean a bull only wants to mate with a certain cow, which prevents him from spreading his seed more broadly. Is this conjecture correct? If so, how does the mature bull teach a yearling not to fall into this type of behavior?
 
mp.freelance said:
George said:
I always turn a yearling in with a mature bull - - - the mature bull will do 90% of the breeding but the yearling will keep him active and will learn not to fall in love and will make a great breeder the next year.

Just keep it to the two bulls though as if you get anothet yearling they might team up and hurt the mature bull.
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This has been a really interesting thread to read. However, I've never heard of bulls "falling in love" with cows. How does this manifest itself? What are the disadvantages of this happening? I'm guessing you mean a bull only wants to mate with a certain cow, which prevents him from spreading his seed more broadly. Is this conjecture correct? If so, how does the mature bull teach a yearling not to fall into this type of behavior?
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Yes your conjecture is correct. Insofar as how the mature bull instructs the yearling how to 'spread his genes' - I haven't a clue! Unless - - knocking his bunns into the middle of next week might get his attention!

DOC HARRIS
 

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