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Bunk samples

F

Faster horses

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Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
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Location
NE WY at the foot of the Big Horn mountains
Remember when I was worried our heifer calves were
gettin sick in the feedlot?

Ok, we got the bunk sample back from what our heifer calves are
getting. The calves aren't sick, but they aren't as thrifty looking as
they should be.

The feed isn't all that good.

Moisture is 13.45

On a DM basis, protein is 10.97; ADF 41.05 (too high);
NDF 61.18; TDN. 51.25 (too low); NEG .21.

Our area manager said this would allow them to gain less
than .5 lbs per day. We need to add moisture so the ADF
will go down some and we need to get the NEG to .44 so
they will gain 1.5# day.

So we'll see if the feeder will step up to the plate.
If not, they are coming home.

Amazing what a feed analysis tells you.
 
That's something FH. Are these replacement heifers from this year? I think 10.97 on protein is fine for growing heifers, but certainly those other numbers need some tweeking. Doesn't the guy who's feeding them test his feed? Any background outfit I know around here has that done long before the custom calves even show up to fill the pens.
 
Add 2 pounds of corn and a pound or 2 of gluten, DDG or similar for each heifer.

With the fiber that high I bet the heifers are plenty stiff on the business end.

5 pounds of alfalfa might do the trick, but the energy is pretty low for it to help enough.
 
I think Jason gave you good advice FH. Besides, cattle just love DDG.

I think it is the right thing to do as far as getting your cattle the best ration possible. But I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about them not growing at all. They are probably growing frame on that ration. One mild winter, we ran our replacement heifers out, with 2-3# of cake/day, and grass. Then mid Mar. we bought them in before calving so we didn't have to worry about them. Other years the dry heifers would normally weigh in the mid 9's the coming fall at preg. testing time. The year after we winter grazed the heifers, guess what? They still weighed in the mid 9's. They grew frame, and made it up on summer grass.

But you are paying someone to grow them for you, so you have a little different situation.

Good luck.
 
Faster horses said:
Remember when I was worried our heifer calves were
gettin sick in the feedlot?

Ok, we got the bunk sample back from what our heifer calves are
getting. The calves aren't sick, but they aren't as thrifty looking as
they should be.

The feed isn't all that good.

Moisture is 13.45

On a DM basis, protein is 10.97; ADF 41.05 (too high);
NDF 61.18; TDN. 51.25 (too low); NEG .21.

Our area manager said this would allow them to gain less
than .5 lbs per day. We need to add moisture so the ADF
will go down some and we need to get the NEG to .44 so
they will gain 1.5# day.

So we'll see if the feeder will step up to the plate.
If not, they are coming home.

Amazing what a feed analysis tells you.
Click to expand...


FH this was my sample probably from the same lab you used.

Moisture 15.57%

DM 84.4% Crude Pro. 15.83 Available Pro 13.92% ADF 32.14 NDF 43.4
TDN 60.42. The calves look to be doing good but I removed 4lbs of barley pellets from the ration since this test was taken due to bloat issues. I did increase the amount available to the calves. They get very full but have not been bloating. I think the bloat was from the dry clover pulverizing when tub ground and the pellets adding to the fines.
 
Casey is working us up a solution this evening.
The feeder isn't using DDG (darn it), only oats.

He seems to be open to whatever we come up with.
If things don't change they are coming home.

While a little more protein wouldn't hurt, it's energy they are short on. Less expensive to supplement energy than protein. That's why they went over there, I wanted them fed some grain. Geez, they are up to 2 lbs. oats in 2 months. Pretty ridiculous.

We are not impressed.

The thing about a lot, Tap, is that you can put 1.5# (or 2.5#) on them
cheaper than .5. We do better than .5 here at home on straight
hay. I wanted to see if adding energy helped them shed off
better this spring. My own little experiment. We don't want them
fat, but we don't want them hurt either. Usually they weigh close
to 800# when we work them the latter part of May. We aren't looking
nor want 1100-1200# heifers. These usually weigh 950-1025#.


Plus I must admit, I was hoping
to get to go somewhere on a trip this winter. Mr. FH isn't one
bit interested in going somewhere. I guess I'll go alone, lol.

Moral of this story, "I shouldn't think so much." :shock: :P :wink:
 
I got a Supreme Mixer this fall..Used and spendy, but it allows me to make my own choices and Mechanical feeding beats lifting anyday...One thing I hadn't thought of, but with the Grinding action, there are no long stems...Cattle aren't pulling hay and wasting as much because it is smaller pieces.....

It is amazing the choices that open up to aperson when they have the right equipment.....It is a different choice for me as a 42 year-old looking at using a piece of equipment over the next 25 years or so vs some other folks,

PPRM
 
FH:

It almost sounds like you might have "telegraphed" your non-fat heifer agenda too well.

I wonder if they were keeping some energy out of them kind of trying to make sure you were pleased next fall, but forgetting what they might look like now?

You have plenty of time to straighten out the kinks before breeding time.



Badlands
 
The worst mistake you can make developing heifers is to short them. So many get so scared of over fat heifers not milking that they starve them and can't get a decent conception on them at breeding.

It carries on to year 2 and they don't breed back if they bred the first year.

On oats only as the grain, depending on the bushel weight of the oat, I would be feeding 8 pounds or maybe even 10.

If they are a very heavy oat like Derby (46 pounds or better) they will feed close to Barley. If they are a light oat close to the legal trade weight (34 pounds) they aren't much better than good hay.
 
Good post, Jason. And our area manager said they would need 10 lbs.
of oats when being fed this kind of hay.
With better hay,(2nd cutting alfalfa) the oats could be cut back to 7 lbs.

The guy feeding them had a bunk sample taken too. The way he did
it was different than the way we did it. He just filled a 5 gallon bucket
and got a sample from that. Our Vigortone area manger went to the
bunk, walked down it and picked up the sample as the cattle were being
fed.

The sample from the 5 gallon bucket, (taken on a different day)
was quite a bit different than ours. Ours was sent to Stearns, the
other one to Dairyland.

His:
CP 12.07
ADF 36.31 (much better)
TDN 60.61 (much better)
And his NEG is way different than what we got from Stearns
so I'm checking up on that.

Interesting that his nutrition man tells him these calves should
gain 1.6 on this ration, while ours says .5. Of course, they are
looking at two different bunk samples.

Going to be interesting how this plays out.

The reason we decided not to feed them at home was because
we didn't want to short them and have no easy way to feed them
grain. I doubt if we do this again. They've done just fine on our
hay and a little forage pro/mineral. Wish we'd never gotten
into this deal.

Thanks for your comments.
 
If they're getting all the decent hay they can eat and some good grass that's all a profitable beef heifer needs to breed. Ten pounds of grain a day is for developing sows not cows-that puts absolutely no selection prssure on them for surviving and thriving on forage-if you are short of hay or it's too high priced then a bunch of grain in the ration might make 'economical' sense. I did the welfare heifer thing for years but glad I finally slipped off that treadmill and let them be ruminants again.
 
Our heifers get devoloped on straw, cornstalks, milo stalks and some distillers grain. If I go and look at them and I don't see some thin ones, 2-5%, I think we are feeding them too much WDG. We cut off the bad doers about, 1-3%, and breed the rest. And they breed up great.
 

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