3 M L & C
Well-known member
For those of you that feed cake where does a person look to buy from or stay away from. This would be in northwest or north central kansas.
Buying cake
- Thread starter 3 M L & C
- Start date
is this the raw ethanol by product?? if so, try Nesika Energy in Scandia KS.... everyone I have talked to said it is one of the few that will load less than a semi load..... a lot of guys take trailers or farm trucks in there to load out.
3 M L & C
Well-known member
Either that or cubes. I just don't know where to look and get good quality and a decent price.
3 M L & C
Well-known member
I just remembered I think it was last year someone posted a link to prices for different cubes pellets or ddg on here. I did a few searches and can't find it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
loomixguy
Well-known member
3 M L & C said:
ADM makes the best cubes with the least amount of fines. Your closest mill is likely the ADM mill in Cozad, Nebraska. If you need more info PM me. I should be able to arrange trucking, etc. Bagged or bulk? Makes a difference in cost.
We got 8 inches of snow last Saturday night. Between the severe cold and the snow, I've noticed the cattle belonging to the more frugal types (not customers of mine) have lost almost a full body condition score.
Moorman's makes a mighty fine 35% Roughage Buster tub that they won't overeat, and I've had awful good luck with their Mintrate blocks. I'm not a fan of cubes at all...too many hidden costs associated with them...unless you get them with Safe Guard wormer so you can worm without running them through a chute.....or using them to get them to follow you.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Just talked to my local feed salesman in town today. $160/MT for screening pellets 14%. Having trouble getting lentil screens so think they will go up. Barley is $120/MT but he doesn't think anybody will sell at that price.
$4 corn could be fed whole on the ground if it's not muddy.
$4 corn could be fed whole on the ground if it's not muddy.
burnt
Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Not sure that one gets the value out of corn feeding it whole whether the ground is muddy or frozen!
I know that processing costs $ and has a lot of other demands, but when feeding whole corn with roughage, there is a lot goes through whole.
3M, here's a link to prices that I use:
http://agebb.missouri.edu/dairy/byprod/bplist.asp
I bought some cubes last week from a neighbor kid. He's trying to put a few extra $$ in his pocket by selling cubes. These are made from distillers grain, 31% protein. They're a bigger cube with no crumbling. $400/ton
Cows love 'em and so do the dogs! His come out of a plant at Lyons, Ks.
http://agebb.missouri.edu/dairy/byprod/bplist.asp
I bought some cubes last week from a neighbor kid. He's trying to put a few extra $$ in his pocket by selling cubes. These are made from distillers grain, 31% protein. They're a bigger cube with no crumbling. $400/ton
Cows love 'em and so do the dogs! His come out of a plant at Lyons, Ks.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
burnt said:
Like it whole when feeding on the ground. They clean it up better then pellets.
I bet there is not much left in the kernels after being put through a cow unless she is really fed quite a bit.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
New recipe developed for turning corn stover into feed
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Can I feed whole shell corn to my ruminants?
By Michael Fisher
CSU Area Livestock Extension Agent, Golden Plains Area
Colorado
Recently, I was one of the invited speakers for a feedlot management program. The topic that I was asked to discuss was feed ingredient maintenance. Here is a topic that is referred to often and a lot of people have ideas about it; however, scientific evidence on appropriate ingredient maintenance can be scant. Mostly, we take the whole subject for granted.
While conducting my literature review on the subject, I was interrupted by a phone call from an old friend who opened the phone conversation with: "Fisher, what are you doing?" My response was: "Researching the pros and cons of feeding whole corn vs. cracked corn." To which my friend immediately followed with: "Well, you can forget about the whole corn. Even Jimmy knew to crack corn."
Of course, my friend was referring to "Blue Tail Fly," a slave song credited to Daniel Emmet in the mid-1840s. More specifically, he was referring to the line of the chorus that gets repeated over and over again: "Jimmy crack corn and I don't care." Historians have several ideas of what Jimmy may have been doing when he cracked corn; ranging from opening a jug of corn liquor to being whipped. Yet, none of these support my friend's theory that Jimmy was grinding feed.
Let's take a couple of minutes and play devil's advocate to my friend's opinion that corn must be cracked before we feed it.
Whole shell corn can be fed as an unprocessed product. In fact, there are some researchers who believe that when cattle are on extremely high concentrate diets (less than 20 percent roughage) the whole shell corn diet can have slight advantages over cracked corn. One obvious advantage is that we can save the cost of processing when we feed corn as a whole kernel. Another advantage is that whole shell corn can be utilized as "scratch factor," which is usually associated with roughages. The rumen is lined with thousands of small, finger-like, structures called papillae. The papillae absorb volatile fatty acids that are given off as byproduct when the rumen's microbial population breaks down the feedstuffs that the animal consumes. These VFA's are essential to the ruminant animal's nutrition and survival. The papillae require some kind of scratching action to grow and remain healthy. Theoretically, the better the scratch, the better the VFA's are absorbed, and the better the animal's performance.
As ruminants chew corn, they will break open the bran of some of the kernels and swallow others whole. Some of the kernels will receive further breakage when the animal chews its cud. However, many of the kernels will remain a whole kernel. This creates a harder job for the microbial population. They have to get through the bran to enter the kernel and digest the starch from inside. By having lots of unbroken kernels in the rumen, digestion and utilization is slowed. While this may lessen the chance of acidosis, bloat, or liver abscesses; it may also lessen performance and will reduce both dry matter intake and feed conversions. This problem can be amplified when animals are hungry or there is a lot of competition for space at the feed bunk. These hungrier and more competitive animals are prone to gulping the shell corn without chewing much of it.
Many producers who have fed whole shell corn have complained of the number of whole kernels that are excreted in the manure. Canadian researchers examined this and determined that 11 percent of the kernels that appeared to be whole in the feces were actually hollow. It would seem that the microbial population was able to find entry through the bran layer and digest the internal starch of the corn. Another research study in Ohio ascertained the number of corn kernels that were fed to cattle and compared this to the number excreted. Further analysis determined how many excreted kernels were hollow versus starch filled. These researchers determined that 88 percent of the whole shell corn that was fed was utilized by the animal.
One of the places that we see whole shell corn as being successful is when fed to cattle on a self-feeder system. A supplement pellet is mixed with the whole shell corn and placed in the self-feeder. The feed flow doors are set at a narrow flow so as to have a consistent stockpile of corn and supplement pellets present in the bunk without an overflow. Assuming that the producer has not overstocked the lot, this should limit competition and feed gulping. While 5 to 10 inches of bunk space per head is recommended for the self-feeder, some have shown this technique to be successful down to 3 inches of bunk space per head.
If you are going to feed whole shell corn, there are a couple of other cautions that you should be aware of. Small feed ingredients, such as salt and mineral do not mix well with whole shell corn. The small particles will sift through the feed and work their way to the bottom. These should be fed separately and at free choice.
Also, extremely dry or "flinty" corn requires some attention before feeding. Whole shell corn works best at 13 to 15 percent moisture. When it is at 12 percent moisture or less you should consider either processing or moistening it. By adding 3 to 5 percent water to the corn, while mixing it, we can help to increase the moisture level. Some producers will use a mixture of water and surfactant. The surfactant dissolves the outer, wax-like layer of the grain, allowing it to absorb moisture.
Under proper management, whole shell corn can be utilized as an effective feed source for ruminant animals. If you wish to discuss this subject further, Michael Fisher can be reached through the Yuma County Extension office at 970-332-4151 or by e-mail at [email protected]..
1/28/08
3 Star CO\18-B
http://www.hpj.com/archives/2008/jan08/jan28/CanIfeedwholeshellcorntomyr.cfm
High Plains Journal online classifieds
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Reader Comment:
by Greater Franklin County
"Thanks for picking up the story about our Buy One Product Local campaign --- we're"....Read the story... Join other discussions.
Home >> Archives >> Stories
2
Can I feed whole shell corn to my ruminants?
By Michael Fisher
CSU Area Livestock Extension Agent, Golden Plains Area
Colorado
Recently, I was one of the invited speakers for a feedlot management program. The topic that I was asked to discuss was feed ingredient maintenance. Here is a topic that is referred to often and a lot of people have ideas about it; however, scientific evidence on appropriate ingredient maintenance can be scant. Mostly, we take the whole subject for granted.
While conducting my literature review on the subject, I was interrupted by a phone call from an old friend who opened the phone conversation with: "Fisher, what are you doing?" My response was: "Researching the pros and cons of feeding whole corn vs. cracked corn." To which my friend immediately followed with: "Well, you can forget about the whole corn. Even Jimmy knew to crack corn."
Of course, my friend was referring to "Blue Tail Fly," a slave song credited to Daniel Emmet in the mid-1840s. More specifically, he was referring to the line of the chorus that gets repeated over and over again: "Jimmy crack corn and I don't care." Historians have several ideas of what Jimmy may have been doing when he cracked corn; ranging from opening a jug of corn liquor to being whipped. Yet, none of these support my friend's theory that Jimmy was grinding feed.
Let's take a couple of minutes and play devil's advocate to my friend's opinion that corn must be cracked before we feed it.
Whole shell corn can be fed as an unprocessed product. In fact, there are some researchers who believe that when cattle are on extremely high concentrate diets (less than 20 percent roughage) the whole shell corn diet can have slight advantages over cracked corn. One obvious advantage is that we can save the cost of processing when we feed corn as a whole kernel. Another advantage is that whole shell corn can be utilized as "scratch factor," which is usually associated with roughages. The rumen is lined with thousands of small, finger-like, structures called papillae. The papillae absorb volatile fatty acids that are given off as byproduct when the rumen's microbial population breaks down the feedstuffs that the animal consumes. These VFA's are essential to the ruminant animal's nutrition and survival. The papillae require some kind of scratching action to grow and remain healthy. Theoretically, the better the scratch, the better the VFA's are absorbed, and the better the animal's performance.
As ruminants chew corn, they will break open the bran of some of the kernels and swallow others whole. Some of the kernels will receive further breakage when the animal chews its cud. However, many of the kernels will remain a whole kernel. This creates a harder job for the microbial population. They have to get through the bran to enter the kernel and digest the starch from inside. By having lots of unbroken kernels in the rumen, digestion and utilization is slowed. While this may lessen the chance of acidosis, bloat, or liver abscesses; it may also lessen performance and will reduce both dry matter intake and feed conversions. This problem can be amplified when animals are hungry or there is a lot of competition for space at the feed bunk. These hungrier and more competitive animals are prone to gulping the shell corn without chewing much of it.
Many producers who have fed whole shell corn have complained of the number of whole kernels that are excreted in the manure. Canadian researchers examined this and determined that 11 percent of the kernels that appeared to be whole in the feces were actually hollow. It would seem that the microbial population was able to find entry through the bran layer and digest the internal starch of the corn. Another research study in Ohio ascertained the number of corn kernels that were fed to cattle and compared this to the number excreted. Further analysis determined how many excreted kernels were hollow versus starch filled. These researchers determined that 88 percent of the whole shell corn that was fed was utilized by the animal.
One of the places that we see whole shell corn as being successful is when fed to cattle on a self-feeder system. A supplement pellet is mixed with the whole shell corn and placed in the self-feeder. The feed flow doors are set at a narrow flow so as to have a consistent stockpile of corn and supplement pellets present in the bunk without an overflow. Assuming that the producer has not overstocked the lot, this should limit competition and feed gulping. While 5 to 10 inches of bunk space per head is recommended for the self-feeder, some have shown this technique to be successful down to 3 inches of bunk space per head.
If you are going to feed whole shell corn, there are a couple of other cautions that you should be aware of. Small feed ingredients, such as salt and mineral do not mix well with whole shell corn. The small particles will sift through the feed and work their way to the bottom. These should be fed separately and at free choice.
Also, extremely dry or "flinty" corn requires some attention before feeding. Whole shell corn works best at 13 to 15 percent moisture. When it is at 12 percent moisture or less you should consider either processing or moistening it. By adding 3 to 5 percent water to the corn, while mixing it, we can help to increase the moisture level. Some producers will use a mixture of water and surfactant. The surfactant dissolves the outer, wax-like layer of the grain, allowing it to absorb moisture.
Under proper management, whole shell corn can be utilized as an effective feed source for ruminant animals. If you wish to discuss this subject further, Michael Fisher can be reached through the Yuma County Extension office at 970-332-4151 or by e-mail at [email protected]..
1/28/08
3 Star CO\18-B
http://www.hpj.com/archives/2008/jan08/jan28/CanIfeedwholeshellcorntomyr.cfm
I priced out a mixture of 1360#s of soybean meal, 600#s of salt and 40#s of vegatable oil mixture will cost $423 a ton. Thinking I should have mineral blended right in with it what do you guys think it will be fed free choice in tubs.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Denny said:
Sounds like Big Muddy Bossy Bloomer with Soy instead of Canola meal.
I used to just drop a bag of mineral in the tub then fill with Bloomer but could probably make a better product with mineral mixed.
I was quoted $361/MT plus frieght for that mix with Canola meal this fall.
The ton will cost what 750 lbs of tubs will cost and you will have higher protien.
burnt said:
There have been all kinds of studies about feeding whole corn. I am to lazy this morning to look them up, but in essence the critter gets the same nutritional value out of whole corn, as they do ground.
I won't feed whole corn, 'cause I don't like to see kernels laying on the ground. At least when I crack it, it isn't quite so obvious.
Big Muddy rancher said:Denny said:
Sounds like Big Muddy Bossy Bloomer with Soy instead of Canola meal.
I used to just drop a bag of mineral in the tub then fill with Bloomer but could probably make a better product with mineral mixed.
I was quoted $361/MT plus frieght for that mix with Canola meal this fall.
The ton will cost what 750 lbs of tubs will cost and you will have higher protien.
It was your Bossy Bloomer that I used as a recipe. I can get a ton of this for the price of 1000#s of tubs.
Faster horses
Well-known member
LazyWP said:
We didn't like feeding whole corn for the same reason, burnt. BUT, we were wrong. If you look at that kernel after it has passed through the cow, there is a hole in it where the nutrients were used, what was left was the shell of the kernel. FWIW It is discouraging to see the kernels that are passed, however. I do think cracked corn is better, but when you compare cost, the whole kernel wins out. FWIW
littlejoe
Well-known member
I priced out a mixture of 1360#s of soybean meal, 600#s of salt and 40#s of vegatable oil mixture will cost $423 a ton. Thinking I should have mineral blended right in with it what do you guys think it will be fed free choice in tubs.
a thought on using salt to control:
a cow will choke down about all of this she can stand.
then drink a bunch of extra water, to dilute her blood, etc, to about same % of salt as seawater.
then her body uses energy to warm the water up to body temp.
(coincidentally enuf, this is how we measure energy--a btu is amount it takes to raise a pound of h20 a deg F, a calorie to raise a gram a degree C)
then she'll pee it out the back. on a cold day---see that steam?--you paid for it.
a thought on using salt to control:
a cow will choke down about all of this she can stand.
then drink a bunch of extra water, to dilute her blood, etc, to about same % of salt as seawater.
then her body uses energy to warm the water up to body temp.
(coincidentally enuf, this is how we measure energy--a btu is amount it takes to raise a pound of h20 a deg F, a calorie to raise a gram a degree C)
then she'll pee it out the back. on a cold day---see that steam?--you paid for it.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
littlejoe said:
But the cows on Bossy Bloomer sure looked good and all they were eating besides was winter graze in the badlands. They would come bouncing over the hills and you could see your reflection on their sides. Most of mine were eating snow.
littlejoe
Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
I believe ya---and it takes protein to digest the energy---and I synced (mga) heifers with 2# of meal that had 1/2 # of soy in it and cattle looked like they'd been oiled. Might be just what the winter graze needed to balance it out---I'm feeding bovatec in my mineral now, seems to make winter grass work better and stools looser