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calves on cows all winter

Big Swede said:
If you put any stock in the fetal programming idea where if a pregnant cow loses a substantial amount of weight during her pregnancy the calf loses the ability to grade choice because the fat cells don't develop in the muscle of the calf, then late weaning would be a bad idea.

Personally, I think feed is more efficiently used to put weight on weaned calves than to feed the cow to produce milk to put weight on the calf. Besides I don't like to see skinny cows at any time of year. Skinny cows don't fare well in tough storms or tough winters.
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If there was a 'thumbs up' emoticon here, I'd use it in regard to Big Swedes post. Instead :agree: will have to do.

The other thing that keeps going around in my head; you can treat cows this way for only so long and they aren't going to be around for the long haul. Longevity in cows is an important efficiency factor. Just my opinion, of course.
 
There's a difference between cows losing some weight over winter and cows getting skinny. We had winters where we didn't act quick enough and some cows got skinny before we got them to better feed, but most winters we have been able to keep the cows very fat going into it, and if they lose 100-200lbs by April they're still a BCS of 2-2.5 out of 5. It takes the right type of cow also, and before anyone calls me Pharo, I'm not saying it has to be smaller cows. I have some Galloway cows that are 1400lbs fat, wean a good heavy calf year in-year out, and never dip below 1200lbs by March when that calf is weaned. I've also had some 1000lb cows that couldn't take it. They have to have guts and flesh.

We've got cows that are in their teens and haven't missed a beat in this system, and as long as we ensure good nutrition via supplemental feed or minerals we haven't had a drop in conception rates either.

It's simple - like anything else, if it's managed well it will work for some, not for everyone.
 
Really enjoyed your posts PureCountry. One of the things we have done is to provide creep pens for these calves as the weather gets colder. Sometimes these are nothing more then pens with some better quality hay and some protection. Calves start using these pens more and more as the milk production starts diminishing in their mothers. Weaning is often as simple as shutting the creep gates.
 
Faster horses said:
I have a lot of respect for you, PC, but I'm questioning the body score of 2-2.5 that you mentioned. That would designate emaciation. Perhaps you use different numbers for body scoring. Here, 6 is what you would like the cows condition to be going into the winter. If they lose 80 lbs. during the winter, that would put them at a 5 at calving time. (Spring calving). Anything less than that and things are at risk (milking ability, colostrum quality, etc). So, I don't understand the 2-2.5 Body condition scoring. If it is the same as what we use, we would never let cows get that thin. Would you please explain what you mean by 2-2.5?
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He did say "2 -2.5 out of 5." So 2 would not be considered thin, would it, like out of10?
 
Faster horses said:
I have a lot of respect for you, PC, but I'm questioning the body score of 2-2.5 that you mentioned. That would designate emaciation. Perhaps you use different numbers for body scoring. Here, 6 is what you would like the cows condition to be going into the winter. If they lose 80 lbs. during the winter, that would put them at a 5 at calving time. (Spring calving). Anything less than that and things are at risk (milking ability, colostrum quality, etc). So, I don't understand the 2-2.5 Body condition scoring. If it is the same as what we use, we would never let cows get that thin. Would you please explain what you mean by 2-2.5?
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FH, reread his post he said 2-2.5 out of five so a 5-5.5 BCS on what is normally used. At least that's how I understand what he said.
 
Thanks, guys. I thought it had to be a different scoring system than what I am familiar with. I was pretty sure PC wouldn't be for running cows with a BCS of 2-2.5 using our measure of scoring. I try not to assume anything, so I thought I would just ask.

What he is talking about would be a 5 on using our score of 1-10.
Works for me!!! :D
 
Faster horses said:
Thanks, guys. I thought it had to be a different scoring system than what I am familiar with. I was pretty sure PC wouldn't be for running cows with a BCS of 2-2.5 using our measure of scoring. I try not to assume anything, so I thought I would just ask.

What he is talking about would be a 5 on using our score of 1-10.
Works for me!!! :D
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Canadians use the Scottish system. It is the same as yours but uses 1-5 and half scores. The pictures even match up. Consider it the metric equivalent. You'll change one day :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
PureCountry said:
Well, since this is technically a You-All forum and I'm a Canucklehead playing in your sandbox, I should have anticipated the mix-up, so my apologies FH. Glad we're all sorted out. :lol:
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Better than that even. All's good!! :D :nod:
I've never met a Canuck I didn't like. :D I never thought of this place
as 'our sandbox'. I enjoy the posts our neighbors to the north make
and the humor they display.
 
This turned out to be quite a thread. When I posted it to start with, it was more out of questioning the thought process.
Like Soap said, I have seen lots of fall calves, run on the cow until they are 10 months old. Also seen a few summer calves that didn't fit in with any group run over on the cow.
Thanks for all the great comments.
 

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