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Can you guys help me out here?

W

Whitewing

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
5,855
Location
Venezuela
I've got a group of young animals (mostly Charolais) that flat refuse to gain weight. They look like hell.....skinny and long-haired for some reason. I think a significant part of the problem is genetics though I have no way to prove it.

They've been vaccinated, wormed, etc....have been given extra rations, have been pastured, have been corraled and fed....in other words, I've tried everything and, for the most part, they're not improving or are improving at a snail's pace.....and summer is approaching rapidly.

If I could get them fat enough I'd slaughter them all but I doubt anyone would touch them right now because they look so puny.

What do I do?
 
Sounds like you need to add some Ohlde/Emblazon/6807 or like genetics to your cattle that will allow them to efficiently convert feed to pounds....
 
Oldtimer said:
Sounds like you need to add some Ohlde/Emblazon/6807 or like genetics to your cattle that will allow them to convert feed to pounds....
Click to expand...

I've got some animals (Charolais) that are doing fine. As for the crosses I'm doing between Charolais and the mestizos, they're all growing like gang-busters....which leads me to believe this is a genetics problem.
 
Do you have access to vet services?

Do they have any sort of diarrhea like maybe BVD or Johnees?

Do you feed any mineral?

Some sort of resistant parasite?

Just some ideas. Hard to diagnose from the great white north. :D
 
I'm using a mineral mix in the sorghum/corn feed I'm preparing but really having seen any improvement.

What mineral underbalance or overbalance could lead to such symptoms?

And yes, I do have access to decent vet services.
 
What did you deworm with? Some dewormers are no longer effective.
Are these cattle penned with the others? Are they a lot
smaller than the others? Any chance they are getting pushed away
from the feed? At any rate, I would segregate them as soon as possible.

And oh yes, mineral. :wink:

Could they have possibly gotten re-infected after you wormed them?
It takes temperature and moisture for worms to propagate. Maybe
these were put in a lot and it rained (just as a scenerio) and they
were reinfected. Believe me, it does happen.
 
Faster horses said:
What did you deworm with? Some dewormers are no longer effective.
Are these cattle penned with the others? Are they a lot
smaller than the others? Any chance they are getting pushed away
from the feed? At any rate, I would segregate them as soon as possible.

And oh yes, mineral. :wink:

Could they have possibly gotten re-infected after you wormed them?
It takes temperature and moisture for worms to propagate. Maybe
these were put in a lot and it rained (just as a scenerio) and they
were reinfected. Believe me, it does happen.
Click to expand...

There's no competion for feed, either in the pastures or in the corrals. They're all roughly the same size and when they were corraled, there were plenty of feed stations that all the animals had equal opportunity to feed.

I'll check on the worming program tomorrow and also ask the vet when we can worm again. I recall that most the whitewing pigeons I've shot on the place have tapeworms so perhaps that's part of the problem, though I'm really at a loss to explain the situation with just this group of animals.
 
WW, only two dewormers get tapeworms. And more than likely your
vet will tell you tapeworms are not of economic consequence. I disagree.
We dewormed our cows, which we ran a fecal on for two or three years,
as I didn't believe in deworming back then--anyhow the fecals always came
back indicating tapeworms. We wormed them with double dose of Safeguard in a drench. (Safeguard is only one of two dewormers that will get tapes).
Anyhow, the cows picked up condition and always looked better after
we eliminated the tapeworms.

BTW, Valbazon is the only other dewormer that gets tapeworms.
But you can only use it for a short window of time. The time is on the
directions on the bottle.

Good Luck!

Why don't you show us pictures of them and of the ones who are doing fine?
Also, did they all come from the same place? That would be interesting to know.
 
I'm in the city right now but will get some decent pics of the not-so-decent cattle when I get back to the ranch. I'll also get some pics of other calves (Charolais) that appear to be doing fine.

Genetically speaking, the Charolais all come from the same place.
 
I just ran this by a good stockman friend of ours. He is wondering
if these cattle had coccsidios when they were younger.

They got
into a deal like this and the cattle that were sick, never did gain.
They kept them til they were two-years olds and they never did
gain weight. BVD at a young age could cause this as well.
If you lose one, run an autopsy on it, for sure.
 
i would at least draw a blood sample and have it tested.
how long have u had these cattle?

new a guy who purchased some anemic cattle.they don't gain well.
 
Whitewing said:
I'm in the city right now but will get some decent pics of the not-so-decent cattle when I get back to the ranch. I'll also get some pics of other calves (Charolais) that appear to be doing fine.

Genetically speaking, the Charolais all come from the same place.
Click to expand...

Phenotype and genotype explains 99% of your type troubles. You could have some parasites, mineral problems, anemia problems etc but I'd say they are just sorry cattle compared to the others. I had a fellow working for me that when a puzzling thing came about, he'd get pretty wild with his guesses, I told him when you hear hoof beats, think quarter horses, not zebra. I can't remember where I heard the quote but it's not original with me but it applies in this case IMO.
 
Denny said:
If their thin I would'nt post a picture on the site you'll get hung by the balls.
Click to expand...

Understand your concern but it'd be a small mind that would attack me, especially after explaining that I'm looking for help to make these animals better. I've got plenty of fat, happy, progressing animals so it'd be illogical that I'd abuse or otherwise neglect a select group.

They're very thin for the most part and I've thrown about everything I have at them and it's still not helping....at least for the majority.
 
Whitewing said:
I've got a group of young animals (mostly Charolais) that flat refuse to gain weight. They look like hell.....skinny and long-haired for some reason. I think a significant part of the problem is genetics though I have no way to prove it.

They've been vaccinated, wormed, etc....have been given extra rations, have been pastured, have been corraled and fed....in other words, I've tried everything and, for the most part, they're not improving or are improving at a snail's pace.....and summer is approaching rapidly.

If I could get them fat enough I'd slaughter them all but I doubt anyone would touch them right now because they look so puny.

What do I do?
Click to expand...

I think that's your answer........"mostly" if they are genetically similar to the "mostly" stock Ive seen south of the Rio,you are being unrealistic comparin them to cattle that you know are genetically
superior,but alot of good ideas being bounced around,get a vet to look at them.
good luck
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
Are these calves you bought? or calves that were born on your place?
Click to expand...

They're a mix of animals I bought with some born on my place.

I've been thinking its genetics but this afternoon I visited with a vet at one of the local "agropecuarias" and she told me it sounds like a blood problem, possibly something tick-borne. When I started to describe the condition of the animals, she asked if their fur appears longer and shaggier than my other animals. It does.

Anyway, she gave a treatment regime which we'll start tomorrow or the next day. If this treatment works, I'll post some before and after photos for you guys.

Thanks for the help all.
 
Faster horses said:
WW, only two dewormers get tapeworms. And more than likely your
vet will tell you tapeworms are not of economic consequence. I disagree.
We dewormed our cows, which we ran a fecal on for two or three years,
as I didn't believe in deworming back then--anyhow the fecals always came
back indicating tapeworms. We wormed them with double dose of Safeguard in a drench. (Safeguard is only one of two dewormers that will get tapes).
Anyhow, the cows picked up condition and always looked better after
we eliminated the tapeworms.

BTW, Valbazon is the only other dewormer that gets tapeworms.
But you can only use it for a short window of time. The time is on the
directions on the bottle.

Good Luck!

Why don't you show us pictures of them and of the ones who are doing fine?
Also, did they all come from the same place? That would be interesting to know.
Click to expand...

Bingo!!!! The right worming product and at the right times. Not every vet observers this.
 

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