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Can you help me as a new land owner - how do hay leases work

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yancimator

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My father had 50 head of cattle, but passes away a few years ago. I have 500 acres in SouthWest Missouri with about 200 acres of pasture. I do not farm this pasture at all and only use the farm to hunt. I'm wondering what is a normal kind of arrangement that might be made with a cattle farmer to cut, rake and bail the hay in the fields on an annual basis? I'm certain this is not top notch hay, but the fields have been made into hay for dozens of years, so I know it's decent hay.

Can any of you that have arrangements like that tell me what I should expect? Is it easy or hard to find somebody to partner with? What's the normal small print in the arrangements? What do I need to look out for? What do I normally need to concede? And, most importantly, can you give me a conservative estimate on what a reasonable price might be to expect or charge somebody that would take all my hay?

Thank you very much for ANY information? I'm new at all of this, I'm not looking to make a big profit, just don't have a clue what to expect or what is normal.
 
I cut, raked , baled and hauled my share usually 70 to 80%, I done some deals at 60%-40% but that was usually the land owner had more input like he fertilized and irrigated.
 
In my area it is normally 1/3, 2/3 with the 1/3 going to the landlord. Oftentimes the tenant purchases the 1/3 for cash at the going rate for that kind of hay that year. I use the Kansas Hay Market News as a source of prices as it is easy to prove how you arrived at the price and I think it is fair to both parties. Some years that published price is the same as local prices and some years it is a little different. This year it is higher than our local prices as we had a really big hay crop. Any fertilizer applied is paid for in the same ratio as the crop is divided.
 
I have no animals or use for hay. Do some of you just pay cash annually and take 100% of the hay you've worked? Is trying to get $15 an acre or something like that a normal thing?? I have no equipment and no cattle. Just several big hay fields that I know my dad could get a couple hundred good round bails off of each year. So, that's more what I'm asking about versus sharecropping. I'd have no way to sell those bails or move them and sure don't need to feed them.

Thanks again!
 
If you get partnered up with the right guy, he will write you a check for your share and you'll never have to lift a finger...he will either buy your share or sell it for you when or if he sells his share.
I put up a lot of hay years ago for 50%. Around here now the going rate seems to be either 60-40 or 2/3-1/3. As the landowner now, I would not go for any less than the 1/3 share. Your eyes will open up when you get your real estate taxes. 60-40 seems about right to me these days.
 
My neighbor does what you're wanting to do. He never keeps or touches a bale. It costs him $18 a bale to have to mowed, raked and baled. He was selling it for only 28 dollars a bale....not sure now, that was 3 years ago. Nothing seems to be sold around here anymore for less than $35 a bale, so that is low and was only getting $10 a bale in money from who did it.

I bet you could get at least $15, $20, somewhere per bale in your pocket all said and done from who baled it all up???
 
That's what I'm hoping to arrange. Any suggestions on the best way to find somebody without getting myself into a bad situation? Are these things usually contracted or handshakes? My ultimate goal would be to get about $2500 or $3000 per year to help with the real estate taxes and insurance on the place so I can break even and just hunt. I'm not fully sure how many acres I have in pasture, but it's at least 200, could be 250.

Is there a place you can market this kind of thing? And, when you do, is it like Craigslist where you end up talking to 5 pyscho's for every stand up guy you meet?

Thanks again!
 
I guess, let me ask it this way...............if I decided to stop by some of the cattle farms nearby and ask them if they find themselves needing/wanting more hay and want to discuss a "deal" or "arrangement", am I a pain to you guys or is that a welcome and positive conversation? What's the culture with cattle farmers like on that topic?

Thanks!
 
yancimator said:
I guess, let me ask it this way...............if I decided to stop by some of the cattle farms nearby and ask them if they find themselves needing/wanting more hay and want to discuss a "deal" or "arrangement", am I a pain to you guys or is that a welcome and positive conversation? What's the culture with cattle farmers like on that topic?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Do a little research and find out who is successful in cattle in the area and contact them.

I'm sure there will be a need for your pasture and hay - - - make sure you check with an area banker, or sale barn to make sure you are dealing with a good person.

See if you can get a long term agreement started that will benefit the cattle producer and you should benefit as well.

I would not object to you stopping by to see me.
 
Thanks George! Can I ask for a follow up, is my thought of asking or hoping for $2500 or $3000 per year, regardless of hay production or what they want to do to the fields, reasonable or does that seem high? From what I've read I'm hoping it's like half what is reasonable. I'm not trying to be competetive, but if my thinking is not right and my offer is not actually good, I'd like to know ahead of time. From what I've been reading, if I really do have 200-250 acres of pretty good or at least decent hay fields that have been mowed every year for 20 years, so no trees or brush, I'm thinking that if I really cared about profit, it may be worth twice or three times that. Is that crazy thinking? Regardless of what you say, I'm not trying to get any more than $3000. That covers all my farm costs (taxes and insurance)
 
If it were here and would run 50 cows and put up a 200 bales of hay and you'd let me manage it to insure I made money you'd end up with $7000 to $10,000 a year. Put an add up in your area and see how much interest their is maybe find a young rancher couple that needs a little help finding land instead of some older established rancher those that are here tend to be greedy more than needy.

Having re-read your above post I think if I were you I would definitely try and find a younger start up rancher. You sound like the type a guy that would be a benefit to a younger rancher trying to make a go of things. Local Vo-Ag teacher may have a former FFA student looking for a guy like you that wasn't trying to fleece him for every last penny.
 
I feel you could get 2 or 3 times $3000 easily, so not crazy thinking. I got 98 net wrapped big bales off of my tiny little hay field one year.....usually around 75 though. You have 6 to 7 times as much hay ground as I.
 
I guess we are in a different market than you. We pay $5,000 per year to rent a small ranch that is comprised of 6 quarters. We hay about 200 acres of it, and pasture the rest.
I would not dream of rejuvenating the hay land unless the renter helped out (ie. deducted a portion of our costs from rent).
I guess my point is that if you want to keep the place rentable you need to consider who is going to do this type of work and who is going to pay for it. If that ground is 20 yrs. old I would assume it's long past due, although your country may well be much different than ours in that regard. If you are going to do this work then the rent will need pay well enough to allow you to do it, and if you expect your renters to do it then you will need to adjust accordingly.
 
Yea, I never paid close attention to the numbers of bails, but I think he'd have around 25-30 cows and then would end up with another 20 calves that he'd sell ever year. Kept them in one huge field and then cut and bailed all the others. He'd get two cuts and sometimes three. Seems to me that the numbers would be like 75 bails, then 50, then 25. But, I can't remember. As I kid, I just didn't care all that much.

You guys have been very helpful. I really appreciate it. Need to figure some kind of plan out.
 
Oh, sorry silver, didn't realize it went to page 2. I have no idea what kind of grass is in the field or what's been done to it lately. I know my dad had done some things to enhance it years ago. But, I just have no clue. I'm certain you'd all put me in the "city boy" category even though I've spent my entire life hunting. I just like stuff that runs through the woods, not grows in the fields!! :D
 
Location is very important--we figure 3 to 5 acres, per pair, per mo on summer grazing.

I'd put up any hay offered, that was worth cutting, for no more than half and be glad to get it.

I've got friends other places that talk cows per acre and basically never get done haying, they just quit. And they get the hay for free---small agreages, owners want them tidy and cut to keep brush out.

So--to determine value, you gotta talk locally.

There's extension agents, etc, that should be both knowledgeable and arms length.

As far as driving into a guys yard, representing yourself as stated and looking for knowledge, I'd say 19 guys outa 2o would be happy to talk your ear off.

Are you familiar with the concept of 'holism'? Basically look at the whole picture. Grass evolved under grazing---so many 'enviros' and nature freaks think cows are bad--it's quite the opposite---good for both plants and soils, if properly managed.

Some management practices---taking off grain and selling it for cash, taking hay off ground that raised it---are basically extractive---mining the soil of nutrients and not replacing them---or replacing them with artificial fertilyers.

I think it would be very possible to perhaps find a young guy or couple, have an overall plan in place, manage grass, brush, etc as a 'mozaic', improve the hunting and habitat, keep soils and plants in a stable or improving condition, he makes a buck, you pay some bills, and the place is left better shape than it was when you got it. I like your attitude.
 
I agree with Denny. you have a situation that could REALLY benefit a young person trying to get started.... please seek out a young family that needs a few more acres it will be appreciated far more, and you will benefit greater in the long run
 
First thing I would do is have an intensive soil sample study on your hay/pasture ground to have a basis for the future.

Pasturing cows doesn't deplete the soil of nutrients nearly as much as haying does.

There are people who will rent hay land and use it until they use it up and move on. Leaving the owner with a nutrient depleted piece of ground that NOBODY wants to tackle.......................
 
Really interesting about the whole "partner with a young couple" idea. Not sure I'll easily be able to find one in that area, but I'm gonna look. I have some fear about putting much in the paper as I don't want to advertise that my dad is no longer looking over the place. Got alot of meth heads in that area!!

Would the fact that all the fence is down be a huge deterant to somebody or is that no big deal to a cattle farmer to have to fence the fields? I think my dad kept his cattle in with prayer! :)

I'm not really sure I want cattle on the place again, just because it adds more risk about them getting out, adds gates and fences in between me and the deer, etc. But, I'm sure wondering about it now.

Great stuff guys!
 

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