Canada and US. Pork / Poultry Sales are Done,Tyson Worried

[PORKER]

December 28, 2005
Canada and US Pork / Poultry Sales are Done,Tyson Worried

The Eu will on Sunday outlaw the last four remaining antibiotics that are still allowed to be used as growth promoters in livestock feeds. The ban is the final step in phasing out antibiotics used for non-medicinal purposes and aims to address concerns about growing human resistance to some medication. Europe's health and consumer protection commissioner, Markos Kyprianou, said: "We need to greatly reduce the non-essential use of antibiotics if we are to effectively address the problem of micro-organisms becoming resistant to treatments that we have relied on for years." Antibiotics have been widely used in animal production for decades worldwide. Added in low doses to the feed of farm animals, they improve their growth performance. But there are growing concerns at the resistance problems they are causing in humans.

 

[mwj]

Since Tyson has a little exp. in the beef buisness they probably had a good idea what the outcome would be. It is pretty hard to ''tell'' the customer what they want. There are still people waiting for them to come around on there beef thinking :shock:

 

[Econ101]

MWJ, Tyson's business model and way of operating is one that allows it to put the costs of production off on somebody else other than themselves. Antibiotic resistence is a real issue, not just a percieved one. I posted an email from someone in the poultry business who thought they were poisoned with one of these "super bugs". She thought the super bug came from a box of court papers as it was the common link in time and space between two seperate outbreaks of the bacteria. Her husband almost died from the experience.

Why are you so quick to taking a packer stance on this issue? Should the U.S. (and its businesses) tell everyone in the world how to do everything?

 

[Kato]

I have a question. Has anyone here ever added a low level of antibiotic to function as a growth promotant? :???:

We have never done it, ever, and don't know anyone who does. Especially in cattle.

Can't speak for big chicken producers, but I do know from talking to neighbours who buy chicks to raise for home use that they are a lot harder to raise than they used to be. We raised our own chickens for many years, and never had a problem that required antibiotics. The only thing we ever had to add to their water was vitamin supplement, and they had amprol (which is not an antibiotic) in their chick starter to prevent coccidiosis. Now it seems that if they don't get some kind of antibiotic at least in the first week or two they are dying from yolk sac infections and peritonitis.

Maybe this is the first sign of the non sustainability of industrial style livestock production???

 

[Mike]

I sorta get from the problems I read on here that scours is a big problem during calving season north of me. Almost everyone? has posted about using scour guards and antibiotics. These are problems I just don't have down this way and was wondering if it was as rampant as I take it to be.

If it is so, antibiotics are for sure used as a growth promotant, as they are needed to merely keep calves alive, thus insuring growth.

I had a conversation with a vet not long ago and he was saying we are in the process of ruining the natural disease resistances in cattle.

 

[Faster horses]

I know that CTC was first designed as a growth promotant. I know it is very successful fed at low levels when used for a window of time precalving until you turn the bulls out. Helps with health, gets the cow ready internally for rebreeding, etc.

I know there is a lot of misconception out there on antibiotics.

I know that vets prescribe antibiotics wayyyyy to much without taking a look at the real problem.

Case in point: We had a customer that was experiencing a lot of hoof rot. Or so he thought. He called two or three vets, they told him to treat with LA-200 and sulfa boluses. So he did that. Didn't help. He called us and we went to his ranch and took a look. The problem was not hoof rot. It was poor feet and the conditions were such that the cows with poorer feet showed up. We had some snow, some melt and turned to ice. He was feeding cake and those cows were running across the frozen icy ground to the cake. Then they had quite a trek to water. Bingo! The cows with long toes, cracked feet, etc. could not handle it. Every cow we looked at that had been treated or were sore-footed had these type of feet. Did any vet go out and look at the situation? NO. Did any vet ever tell him that a cow with hoof rot will run a temperature? No. He treated several cows, cost him alot of time and money to no avail. Put all that antibiotic in them for no reason. We gave him a thermometer to take the temps on the rest of the problem cows. Guess what? No temp's. Not on one. He kept those cows up so they didn't have to travel, did the same with others that showed up and got by just fine without doctoring anything. (I think there should be an EPD or a rating on FEET in cattle.)

It is no wonder we have a potential antibiotic problem. But make no mistake about it. Antibiotics do much more good than harm. If they are banned, then what? Hmmmmm?

 

[mrj]

Granted, EVERYONE needs to be more pro-active in using and demanding use of antibiotics when there is a real NEED for them, rather than as a perceived "quick cure" for something they are useless against, whether for ourselves or our animals.

How many people demand their doctors prescribe antibiotics for maladies that cannot respond to antibiotics?

How much does the antibacterial soaps add to the problem when ordinary soaps properly used will do what needs to be done on people?

How much of antibiotics claimed to be found in our water and blamed on animal usage is really from humans shedding the antibiotics and going through the sewer systems?

MRJ

 

[rancher]

How much does the antibacterial soaps add to the problem when ordinary soaps properly used will do what needs to be done on people?

It is proven that antibacterial soaps do no more than regular soaps.

 

[mwj]

MWJ, Tyson's business model and way of operating is one that allows it to put the costs of production off on somebody else other than themselves. Antibiotic resistence is a real issue, not just a percieved one. I posted an email from someone in the poultry business who thought they were poisoned with one of these "super bugs". She thought the super bug came from a box of court papers as it was the common link in time and space between two seperate outbreaks of the bacteria. Her husband almost died from the experience.

Why are you so quick to taking a packer stance on this issue? Should the U.S. (and its businesses) tell everyone in the world how to do everything?

I think if you will check back a few years you will grasp what I was talking about! Do you remember the goround about hormones and implants in beef going to europe? How much of that mkt. did we get back after ''telling them'' what was best! If you donot listen to the customer you have no mkt. so I do not think Tyson or anyone else trying to sell a product will ignore customer requests.

 

[Jason]

Low level antibiotics for feed conversion in cattle are things like Rumensin or Bovatech. They are considered antibiotics by the strictest definition but most people (ranchers) don't understand that, including me, they are an ionophore to regulate the ph of the rumen.

I used to feed Rumensin, especially the years I had to feed any and everything to survive. I never saw any adverse effect, no difference in the meat and the better feed conversion wasn't visible to me.

With chicken and pork they get medicated feed with a more traditional antibiotic. Raised in confinement they tend to get more diseases. My father-in-law raises chicks and ducks in free range conditions and he is against most any chemical but he uses medicated starter feed as the birds will die without it.

As for the EU, they will use anything to stop imports valid or not.

 

[Econ101]

MWJ, Tyson's business model and way of operating is one that allows it to put the costs of production off on somebody else other than themselves. Antibiotic resistence is a real issue, not just a percieved one. I posted an email from someone in the poultry business who thought they were poisoned with one of these "super bugs". She thought the super bug came from a box of court papers as it was the common link in time and space between two seperate outbreaks of the bacteria. Her husband almost died from the experience.

Why are you so quick to taking a packer stance on this issue? Should the U.S. (and its businesses) tell everyone in the world how to do everything?

I think if you will check back a few years you will grasp what I was talking about! Do you remember the goround about hormones and implants in beef going to europe? How much of that mkt. did we get back after ''telling them'' what was best! If you donot listen to the customer you have no mkt. so I do not think Tyson or anyone else trying to sell a product will ignore customer requests.

Good points, mwj. Tyson has already claimed that they could not raise chickens the way they do without antibiotics. That is the point. They probably should not. The fastest growing segment of chicken niche is antibiotic free chickens.

 

[Econ101]

Low level antibiotics for feed conversion in cattle are things like Rumensin or Bovatech. They are considered antibiotics by the strictest definition but most people (ranchers) don't understand that, including me, they are an ionophore to regulate the ph of the rumen.

I used to feed Rumensin, especially the years I had to feed any and everything to survive. I never saw any adverse effect, no difference in the meat and the better feed conversion wasn't visible to me.

With chicken and pork they get medicated feed with a more traditional antibiotic. Raised in confinement they tend to get more diseases. My father-in-law raises chicks and ducks in free range conditions and he is against most any chemical but he uses medicated starter feed as the birds will die without it.

As for the EU, they will use anything to stop imports valid or not.

Jason, in poultry, the antibiotics in question were the flouroquinalones (sp?). These are in the same family as Cipro, the antibiotic that was given when the mail anthrax scare happened. The problem is that the widescale use of these drugs in poultry is creating these "superbugs" that have antibiotic resistence to that level of antibiotics. There are not a whole lot more levels for human therapy.

There are other companies that do have antibiotic free chickens. It can be done. Tyson just may not be the low cost producer in chickens if this happens. They may have more competition that they do not want. They may have to pay their farmers more per lb. and they don't want to do that.

Think about it, the price of chicken may go up. What would that do to the beef industry?

Pointrider, your solution to the chicken be a lower cost than beef and the market share it gets from beef because of this may be found in part here. Tyson should not be the only ones who benefit from the other hand of the illusion tricks they employ.

 

[PORKER]

The Eu will on Sunday outlaw the last four remaining antibiotics that are still allowed to be used as growth promoters in livestock feeds.*******You ought to hear the hollar in French ,German,English, and Dutch.Same hollaring when Low level antibiotics for feed conversion in cattle like Rumensin or Bovatech was removed in the late 90's.

 

[mrj]

How much does the antibacterial soaps add to the problem when ordinary soaps properly used will do what needs to be done on people?

It is proven that antibacterial soaps do no more than regular soaps.

We agree on that! And it sure isn't easy finding soaps that are NOT anti-bacterial.

MRJ