HAY MAKER said:Frenchie with all the violations you posted ,how would you explain the fact Canada has had 4 confirmed cases of BSE,the US has none........good luck
HAY MAKER said:Frenchie with all the violations you posted ,how would you explain the fact Canada has had 4 confirmed cases of BSE,the US has none........good luck
Tam said:Miss TAM if you are refering to the bar stool pony and dog show that some packer employees dreamed up a while back, I dont think thats adequate,not a damn one of them knew what they were looking at..........good luck
So you are saying that not a damn one in the USDA knows what a complying feed mill looks like or a record of a complying feed mill looks like. Don't forget Haymaker your Governement officials were also in Canada :lol: :lol: :lol: No wonder you have a problem with your feed bans Haymaker the USDA doesn't know what to look for. :wink:
frenchie said:HAY MAKER said:Frenchie with all the violations you posted ,how would you explain the fact Canada has had 4 confirmed cases of BSE,the US has none........good luck
Hay Maker..I don,t know Maybe they bought U.S feed ingredients? :wink:
Or maybe they are actually testing the highest risk cattle the 4 Ds
HAY MAKER said:frenchie said:HAY MAKER said:Frenchie with all the violations you posted ,how would you explain the fact Canada has had 4 confirmed cases of BSE,the US has none........good luck
Hay Maker..I don,t know Maybe they bought U.S feed ingredients? :wink:
Or maybe they are actually testing the highest risk cattle the 4 Ds
MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE......aint gonna get you a Damn thang,undeniable indisputable facts is what you need to attain positive results.As I look at the list of violators of the US feed ban that you posted it s obvious to me that with the US at zero cases of BSE and canada at four,I would logically have to multiply the list you posted x4 to get close to your violations since you have 4 times as many as the US.I would also say the people on this list have been reprimanded and or fined and brought back into compliance.Now for these thangs called facts that I was refering to,where is your list?.......good luck
reader (the Second) said:Haymaker - I am impressed by how you keep your temper and stay steady with your responses to attacks and emotional claims.
HAY MAKER said:reader (the Second) said:Haymaker - I am impressed by how you keep your temper and stay steady with your responses to attacks and emotional claims.
Thank you...............good luck,PS I believe you are the expert on BSE,if the feed bans are one and the same in canada and the US,why the big difference in cases?
Oldtimer said:frenchie-
...If what you say is true about the US feed companies being in violation, I would say the firewalls have a hole in them which could endanger the US cattle herd.....
frenchie said:Oldtimer said:frenchie-
...If what you say is true about the US feed companies being in violation, I would say the firewalls have a hole in them which could endanger the US cattle herd.....
geez Ot ...whatcha gonna say when your holes reach up and bite yer R-calf......
Oldtimer said:agman said:Oldtimer said:Response....OT, you really are not this ignorant or so biased that you actually beleive this total unadultraded crap?
So this is unadulterated crap and the propoganda printed by the NCBA, AMI, and your buddy Dittmer is the Gospel :???: :lol: Whole thing has turned into a battle of words , semantics, and statistics-- Instead it
should go to trial and let a judge decide.......
Oldtimer said:Tam said:who believe that Canada still lags behind the US in BSE testing
"Statistically, the detection sensitivity of a testing programme is driven by the number of cattle tested per month, not the size of the herd," said nationally renowned disease risk-assessment expert Louis Anthony Cox of Cox Associates. "Canada would have to double its testing rate, then double it again, then double it yet a third time to reach parity with the US in the level of scrutiny being given to cattle to protect consumers and the cattle industry against BSE."
Tam- ask Mr. Cox--He is the statistician/scientist that is saying that you haven't came close to reaching parity with the US or to a level of scrutiny to protect consumers or the US cattle industry.......I would imagine the answer would come down to the fact Canada has 4 BSE origin cows and
the US has none..........
Oldtimer said:frenchie said:Oldtimer said:frenchie-
...If what you say is true about the US feed companies being in violation, I would say the firewalls have a hole in them which could endanger the US cattle herd.....
geez Ot ...whatcha gonna say when your holes reach up and bite yer R-calf......
I hope the holes aren't there and the firewalls have been and are adequate-- but I haven't seen good enough proof of that to want to take the risk yet at this time........
HAY MAKER said:reader (the Second) said:Haymaker - I am impressed by how you keep your temper and stay steady with your responses to attacks and emotional claims.
Thank you...............good luck,PS I believe you are the expert on BSE,if the feed bans are one and the same in canada and the US,why the big difference in cases?
I've said before that my view on Canada is that we have BSE in North America. Now, I agree that with 4 cows with BSE, it's worth taking a closer look at the situation. However I have agreed with y'all that as far as I have read, you have had the same or even better surveillance -- I believe you are testing more of the high risk cattle than the U.S. I'm not sure about the feed ban and CIFA but the U.S. and the FDA have their own skeletons in the closet.
frenchie said:Oldtimer said:frenchie said:geez Ot ...whatcha gonna say when your holes reach up and bite yer R-calf......
I hope the holes aren't there and the firewalls have been and are adequate-- but I haven't seen good enough proof of that to want to take the risk yet at this time........
Ahh but Oldtimer this a health issue right :wink: .... where is the troops..
more problems..Weaknesses Found in U.S. Mad Cow Feed Ban
WASHINGTON, DC, March 15, 2005 (ENS) - U.S. cattle are "at risk of spreading" mad cow disease because of weaknesses in a federal government program to keep certain kinds of banned animal protein out of cattle feed, Congressional investigators said in a report made public today.
More than five million cattle across Europe have been killed to stop the spread of mad cow disease, formally called bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). Found in 26 countries, including Canada and the United States, BSE is believed to spread through animal feed that contains protein from BSE infected animals. Consuming meat from infected cattle has also been linked to the deaths of about 150 people worldwide.
The feed given to cattle is not supposed to contain the nervous system tissue of other ruminant animals. (Photo courtesy Newaygo County MSU Extension) In its report, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) said weaknesses in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) program for keeping nervous system tissue of ruminant animals out of cattle feed "continue to limit the effectiveness" of a 1997 ban on feeding this material to cattle.
In a February 25 letter to the Congressmen and Senators who requested the report, GAO Managing Director, Natural Resources and Environment, Robert Robinson acknowledged that the FDA does not agree with many of the conclusions of his report and warned against taking FDA reports to mean that the industry is in compliance with the feed ban.
"FDA believes that it already reports inspection results in a complete and accurate context, as we recommend. We disagree," wrote Robinson. "As noted above, given the data concerns and compliance unknowns raised in this report, FDA¹s data should not be used to project industry compliance."
The ban was established to keep infectious prions out of cattle feed. Known to cause BSE, these prions are misfolded proteins most likely to be found in the brain, spinal cord and small intestines of infected animals.
The FDA has made needed improvements to its management and oversight of the feed-ban rule in response to GAO's 2002 report, but the Congressional investigators say, program weaknesses "continue to undermine the nation¹s firewall against BSE," the GAO reports.
? FDA acknowledges that there are more feed manufacturers and transporters, on-farm mixers, and other feed industry businesses that are subject to the feed ban than the approximately 14,800 firms inspected to date; however, it has no uniform approach for identifying additional firms. .
? FDA has not reinspected approximately 2,800, or about 19 percent, of those businesses, in five or more years; several hundred are potentially high risk. FDA does not know whether those businesses now use prohibited material in their feed.
? FDA's feed-ban inspection guidance does not include instructions to routinely sample cattle feed to test for potentially prohibited material as part of the compliance inspection. Instead, it includes guidance for inspectors to visually examine facilities and equipment and review invoices and other documents.
... ? Feed intended for export is not required to carry a caution label "Do not feed to cattle or other ruminants," when the label would be required if the feed were sold domestically. Without that statement, feed containing prohibited material could be inadvertently or intentionally diverted back to U.S. cattle or given to foreign cattle.
? FDA has not always alerted the U.S. Department of Agriculture and states when it learned that cattle may have been given feed that contained prohibited material. This lapse has been occurring even though FDA's guidance calls for such communication.
...? Although research suggests that cattle can get BSE from ingesting even a small amount of infected material, inspectors do not routinely inspect or review cleanout procedures for vehicles used to haul cattle feed.
On the positive side, the FDA has established a uniform method of conducting compliance inspections and training FDA inspectors, as well as state inspectors who carry out inspections under agreements with FDA, on the new method.
Senator Saxby Chambliss chairs the Senate Agriculture Committee and was one of the legislators who requested this GAO report. (Photo courtesy Office of the Senator) The FDA has also implemented new data-entry procedures that are designed to more reliably track feed-ban inspection results.
Consequently, the GAO says, the Food and Drug Administration has a better management tool for overseeing compliance with the feed-ban rule and a data system that better conforms to standard database management practices.
The Congressional investigators recommend that the FDA, among other things, develop procedures for finding additional firms subject to the feed-ban and using tests to augment inspections.
The FDA responded that the study was thorough but disagreed on four of nine recommendations.
The GAO said it "continues to believe that, given the discovery of BSE in North America and the oversight gaps described in the report, the recommended actions are needed to protect U.S. cattle from BSE.
Health Issues :wink: Oldtimer is,nt that R-calfs claim to fame.
Oldtimer said:frenchie said:Oldtimer said:I hope the holes aren't there and the firewalls have been and are adequate-- but I haven't seen good enough proof of that to want to take the risk yet at this time........
Ahh but Oldtimer this a health issue right :wink: .... where is the troops..
more problems..Weaknesses Found in U.S. Mad Cow Feed Ban
WASHINGTON, DC, March 15, 2005 (ENS) - U.S. cattle are "at risk of spreading" mad cow disease because of weaknesses in a federal government program to keep certain kinds of banned animal protein out of cattle feed, Congressional investigators said in a report made public today.
More than five million cattle across Europe have been killed to stop the spread of mad cow disease, formally called bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). Found in 26 countries, including Canada and the United States, BSE is believed to spread through animal feed that contains protein from BSE infected animals. Consuming meat from infected cattle has also been linked to the deaths of about 150 people worldwide.
The feed given to cattle is not supposed to contain the nervous system tissue of other ruminant animals. (Photo courtesy Newaygo County MSU Extension) In its report, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) said weaknesses in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) program for keeping nervous system tissue of ruminant animals out of cattle feed "continue to limit the effectiveness" of a 1997 ban on feeding this material to cattle.
In a February 25 letter to the Congressmen and Senators who requested the report, GAO Managing Director, Natural Resources and Environment, Robert Robinson acknowledged that the FDA does not agree with many of the conclusions of his report and warned against taking FDA reports to mean that the industry is in compliance with the feed ban.
"FDA believes that it already reports inspection results in a complete and accurate context, as we recommend. We disagree," wrote Robinson. "As noted above, given the data concerns and compliance unknowns raised in this report, FDA¹s data should not be used to project industry compliance."
The ban was established to keep infectious prions out of cattle feed. Known to cause BSE, these prions are misfolded proteins most likely to be found in the brain, spinal cord and small intestines of infected animals.
The FDA has made needed improvements to its management and oversight of the feed-ban rule in response to GAO's 2002 report, but the Congressional investigators say, program weaknesses "continue to undermine the nation¹s firewall against BSE," the GAO reports.
? FDA acknowledges that there are more feed manufacturers and transporters, on-farm mixers, and other feed industry businesses that are subject to the feed ban than the approximately 14,800 firms inspected to date; however, it has no uniform approach for identifying additional firms. .
? FDA has not reinspected approximately 2,800, or about 19 percent, of those businesses, in five or more years; several hundred are potentially high risk. FDA does not know whether those businesses now use prohibited material in their feed.
? FDA's feed-ban inspection guidance does not include instructions to routinely sample cattle feed to test for potentially prohibited material as part of the compliance inspection. Instead, it includes guidance for inspectors to visually examine facilities and equipment and review invoices and other documents.
... ? Feed intended for export is not required to carry a caution label "Do not feed to cattle or other ruminants," when the label would be required if the feed were sold domestically. Without that statement, feed containing prohibited material could be inadvertently or intentionally diverted back to U.S. cattle or given to foreign cattle.
? FDA has not always alerted the U.S. Department of Agriculture and states when it learned that cattle may have been given feed that contained prohibited material. This lapse has been occurring even though FDA's guidance calls for such communication.
...? Although research suggests that cattle can get BSE from ingesting even a small amount of infected material, inspectors do not routinely inspect or review cleanout procedures for vehicles used to haul cattle feed.
On the positive side, the FDA has established a uniform method of conducting compliance inspections and training FDA inspectors, as well as state inspectors who carry out inspections under agreements with FDA, on the new method.
Senator Saxby Chambliss chairs the Senate Agriculture Committee and was one of the legislators who requested this GAO report. (Photo courtesy Office of the Senator) The FDA has also implemented new data-entry procedures that are designed to more reliably track feed-ban inspection results.
Consequently, the GAO says, the Food and Drug Administration has a better management tool for overseeing compliance with the feed-ban rule and a data system that better conforms to standard database management practices.
The Congressional investigators recommend that the FDA, among other things, develop procedures for finding additional firms subject to the feed-ban and using tests to augment inspections.
The FDA responded that the study was thorough but disagreed on four of nine recommendations.
The GAO said it "continues to believe that, given the discovery of BSE in North America and the oversight gaps described in the report, the recommended actions are needed to protect U.S. cattle from BSE.
Health Issues :wink: Oldtimer is,nt that R-calfs claim to fame.
Yeah frenchie--This is the same FDA that is now arresting little old ladies who try to buy their prescription drugs from Canada--since Canadian drugs are unsafe....Who do you believe anymore? :?
Wow, Agman, calm and analytical as always. Breathe deep now and come up with facts versus insults
