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Carbon Credits

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Faster horses said:
Can we have a discussion on this, please?
I don't understand how it works.

Thanks.
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say a business man such as Al Gore has alot of land..
you give him money, and he plants trees to "offset" your use of fuel or your carbon footprint.. then when the trees mature, he harvests them and they are used as renewable resources (lumber), and then he can plant more trees to offset more carbon... and you can give him more money...

in the old days we would have just called it a tree farm, and all Al's profit would have been from the lumber... today you can erase your guilt and give him money to plant the trees... so he can harvest them... (and make more money)
 
Heck, I have absolutely no clue. It is all a big shell game to me. Either we all have to pay attention and take care of our stewardship or just say to heck with it! But setting up a system run by government to dictate who gets what and a dollar figure attached to each is worse than idiotic! :roll: Nothing will change except money changing hands.
 
heres my best explanation FH-

the stock exchange will buy your carbon credits for the carbon your grass sequesters, say for $0.25/ acre . (made up number, hard formula to figure out)

then they will turn around and sell these credits to a "polluter" who has higher than the set limit of carbon emissions for say $5.00/ per credit. (another made up number)

the exchange will then pocket the $4.75, see who the big winner is.

the "polluter" then has to charge more for his product. charging the consumer more. see who the big loser is. Official estimates to cost the consumer on average an additional $3000.00 per year.

This is the essence of "cap and trade"
cap the carbon emmisions, trade credits on the exchange.
this is also why it is the largest single tax ever proposed on the American people. We the consumers pay for it all, while people like Al Gore and company are stting themselves up to pocket the money.

Now some in agriculture think this is ok, because they will be getting a check, untill the emissions on tractors and cows are capped and we have to buy the credits.

Now think about this, our grass etc. is not going to sequester any more carbon than it already naturally does. so we in Ag are selling nothing.
the companies that buy these credits are buying nothing. this does nothing but make the exchange people rich.
BUT, they can't do it if we won't sell. and if you sell then you won't have any credits from your own grass for you to use. and I'm sure our own credits won't officially count unless they are handled through the exchange. for a Handling fee of course.

Cap and trade must be stopped.
 
Al Gore's mansion can use twenty times the electricity of a normal household, and he can "justify" acting stupid because he is buying the "extra" carbon credits that he is using. What an unfunny joke. How can a man of his principles live with himself?
 
I know of several local folks that have been bringing in additional farm and ranch income for years by selling their carbon credits generated by their low till/no till farming and by their having put borderline farmland back into improved pasture...

From what they have told me- the current major drawback is the few exchanges handling carbon credits- and so far the demand is limited..
 
Faster, don't get me started. Too late. :mad: Carbon trading is a method which will allow polluters to pollute with a good conscience. It is also a way of transferring money from developed weather countries to less developed poorer countries. It is the ultimate welfare wealth redistribution scheme. Let's not forget that carbon is the basis for life. We are Carbon based life forms. Carbon is Plant food. :?

I could go on all day long from many different directions here but maybe it would be better if someone else piped in and I'll sit on my hands. :wink: :!:
 
We are signed up for the program by using one pass seeding. Last year my check was $1279 and this year it was $51. Not really worth the hassle for that.
 
I would have to plant all my land to corn so I could let the carbon go up in the air, then I could get paid to sequester it.

I could likely profit off of Cap and Trade, but I am 100% opposed to it.
 
Faster horses said:
Hey, I think I got it!! :shock:

No wonder I didn't sign up.

Darn, where's the puke emoticon when I need it.

Thanks everyone...whew... :shock:
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:gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag:

Somebody please hand me another barf bag . . .

:gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag:


There ya go FH!

(Yanuck prolly has a better one!)
 
Those who have purchased carbon credits will not be sending Professor Weaver of U Vic a bouquet of roses for jumping off of the Good Shi! Global Warming.

He is now saying that the IPCC needs to be restructured because it has become and advocacy group for AGW rather than an unbiased committee.

HELLO?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/01/26/terence-corcoran-heat-wave-closes-in-on-the-ipcc.aspx
 
I think the rest of the guys covered it pretty well. The only place to trade credits that I know is the Chicago Climate Exchange. The price of a tonne of Carbon has come down . I idea of selling credits for zero till or enhanced grass management or even tree planting wouldn't be so bad for the producers that practice good stewardship but it is not reducing any pollution because the purchaser can still pollute.
As the others said farming and ranching has been exempt but that will probably change. (methane and cows) :?
I don't see how agriculture can come out winners in the long run.
A Ecological Goods and Services payment for good stewardship, protection of endangered species and watershed and riparian protection would be nice but i am afraid the NGO's DU and NCC for eg. would find a way to farm it before it got to the real producers/protector on the land.
 
I think perhaps most of you are taking a more cynical view of this than I am. What would make this work better is if the price of carbon credits rises substantially. Then it would provide a real incentive to grassland managers to manage better which would be good for the environment even if you disregard the C02 issue. Equally if carbon credits traded a lot dearer it would start to cost the polluters a lot more money and they would start to reconsider their practices. I think this can be a win:win for ag producers, the environment and the planet. We are just not there yet in terms of a realistic carbon credit value.
I followed this a couple of years ago and saw some very interesting work out of Australia and the values they were predicting would equate to $40/acre/year on intensely managed pasture in my part of the world. I might be wrong but I wouldn't dismiss carbon trading just yet - and I wouldn't sign up for it either as long as the money is so poor.
 
Grassfarmer said:
I think perhaps most of you are taking a more cynical view of this than I am. What would make this work better is if the price of carbon credits rises substantially. Then it would provide a real incentive to grassland managers to manage better which would be good for the environment even if you disregard the C02 issue. Equally if carbon credits traded a lot dearer it would start to cost the polluters a lot more money and they would start to reconsider their practices. I think this can be a win:win for ag producers, the environment and the planet. We are just not there yet in terms of a realistic carbon credit value.
I followed this a couple of years ago and saw some very interesting work out of Australia and the values they were predicting would equate to $40/acre/year on intensely managed pasture in my part of the world. I might be wrong but I wouldn't dismiss carbon trading just yet - and I wouldn't sign up for it either as long as the money is so poor.
Click to expand...

But when the check comes for $40 bucks an acre just be ready to write one double that size for the "tax" of all those diesel tractors, trucks, and methane spewing bovines you have at your place. There's no such thing as a free lunch. :wink:
 
Grassfarmer, you can't get paid for the carbon you already have sequestered. Only for what you increase, seeing that you already manage your grass well, I don't think you can have much more of an increase.
 

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