Cattle dogs

[Faster horses]

Most Stock dog trainers advise not to use a pup on cattle til they are at
least a year old. They stand a good chance of getting hurt and losing
their confidence if worked on cattle earlier.

Our dog we have now doesn't amount to much. He is probably the
most worthless dog as far as livestock is concerned than any we have
ever had. He's a male and we always have females. Anyway,
Mr. FH was stacking hay and wasn't watching the dog and the dog
went down to the creek where the cows were...and when he came
back he was pushing his nose on the ground and making noises as if in pain.
We checked his mouth...all his top teeth had been kicked, but not
out--they were pointing to the outside of his mouth and were very
painful. We had to take him in and get them pulled. He has been
a chicken ever since.

He does mind good and Mr. FH likes him. He says he is better than
no dog (not sure I agree :wink: ) so we still have him...

 

[Howdy1]

I have been training a dog this fall. She is around 3/4 Border colle and 1/4 Blue Heeler. We like to have a little heeler in them for more aggretion, especially movining bulls. This is the first dog I have trained by myself. She will be a year old in the end of March. I started working her commands at just 2-3 months old in the yard. Learned sit, stay, come, down. I never lost my patience with her and tried to make it fun. I started working her on weaned calves this last October (7 months old) and she has become wonderful. The cavles are good starters because even if she gets kicked or so on it isn't too painful or serious. I have just started her working the cows but I make sure to keep her distance from the hind legs for fear of getting her hurt (there is plenty of time for working bigger livestock). She is going to be awesome! Her only limiting factor will be me and my lack of knowledge in training her even more. She is used primarily for help in driving livestock away from us.

But my next dog I would like to get a pure Border Colle that can be sent away and bring the stock to me. Between the two of them I think I would really have a good team. Any opinions on that idea? Would they be able to work together.

Also does anybody have any recommendation of books or video's to buy that are really great in furthering my own education it training stock dogs.

Thanks
Howdy

 

[WyomingRancher]

This is a great book, and the cartoons of what the dog is "thinking" when you're asking him to do something are hilarious .

Looks like there's only one left in stock:

http://www.amazon.com/Herding-Dogs-Progressive-Vergil-Holland/dp/0876056443

 

[turkey track]

I agree with starting dogs at around 12 months of age on bigger or fresh stock, they are more mature mentaly and physically. I have some sheep just for training and 4 dink steers, all well dog broke. This is a safe environment to play with a young pup. I totally agree you don't want to put a young dog in a bad situation, i should have been more clear on this.

 

[Bootheel]

I have been training a dog this fall. She is around 3/4 Border colle and 1/4 Blue Heeler. We like to have a little heeler in them for more aggretion, especially movining bulls. This is the first dog I have trained by myself. She will be a year old in the end of March. I started working her commands at just 2-3 months old in the yard. Learned sit, stay, come, down. I never lost my patience with her and tried to make it fun. I started working her on weaned calves this last October (7 months old) and she has become wonderful. The cavles are good starters because even if she gets kicked or so on it isn't too painful or serious. I have just started her working the cows but I make sure to keep her distance from the hind legs for fear of getting her hurt (there is plenty of time for working bigger livestock). She is going to be awesome! Her only limiting factor will be me and my lack of knowledge in training her even more. She is used primarily for help in driving livestock away from us.

But my next dog I would like to get a pure Border Colle that can be sent away and bring the stock to me. Between the two of them I think I would really have a good team. Any opinions on that idea? Would they be able to work together.

Also does anybody have any recommendation of books or video's to buy that are really great in furthering my own education it training stock dogs.

Thanks
Howdy

I do not think you will have much luck using them together in a pasture situation, as you have your Healer trained to take stock away from you, the border will want to bring them to you. Hence you will never be in the right spot, your dogs will be doing exactly what you asked of them, but they will never be right, and you will not be happy with the results.


One of my biggest mistakes with dogs, was teaching them to drive, first, if the dog is always bringing them too you, it is much easier for them to grasp what you are expecting. Only after he is fully proficient at this, will I begin to drive with them. If I do need to drive, they expected to stay behind me and let me work, then when I mess up, I send the dogs, and I go to the front like I should have done in the first place. But seriously, they do need to master fetching, before driving is added.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I agree with starting dogs at around 12 months of age on bigger or fresh stock, they are more mature mentaly and physically. I have some sheep just for training and 4 dink steers, all well dog broke. This is a safe environment to play with a young pup. I totally agree you don't want to put a young dog in a bad situation, i should have been more clear on this.

I think overall this is a good approach.

It is interesting though the difference between individual dogs of the same age, even full sibs, in terms of how they respond to being kicked.
One dog will have his confidence shaken by it, another will just shake it off and carry on and then another will get made and go in for revenge. Some dogs just seem to have inate rock solid confidence and others don't.

But with a young dog the last thing you want to risk upsetting is their confidence.

 

[George]

Sorry I can't take the credit I was saying "old dogs / new tricks " had it right.

Being as I use German Shepherds I need to keep them in sight when working cattle as if not they want to move them to fast. As long as I can keep telling them "easy" everything works well.

I can send the dogs to the back of the field and have them bring to me but mostly they are just keeping the straglers up with the group as I call the cattle and they start to come. That makes it easy to train the dogs as the cattle are already wanting to do what the dogs want them to do.

Then after they get used to it they will bring up any cattle that have been added to the herd and don't know the rutine.

The German Shepherds as a rule do an acceptable job. But I'm sure a more dedicated breed like a Border Collie would do better, but then my dogs sure know how to make a stranger stay in the car when they pull up. It seems noone wants to try and open the door untill I walk out and tell the dogs its OK. I normally have 3 to 5 adults and a few pups around and they will surround a car as soon as it comes to a stop.

 

[turkey track]

Howdy 1 was asking about books on dog training, The Perfect Stock Dog by Ben Means, I borrowed from a friend is the first book i've used and was the main sorce of reference for me when i wanted to train my first dog 20 sum od years ago. I have no idea if its available any where anymore, hope so, and if not, must be somthing out in that big internet world.
Also Dylan you again are right. About age and personality of each individual dog from the same litter. One thing Ben Means says about a new dog is to never compare him to your old dog, he may be better in some things and not so in others, that way you won't be expecting to much to soon. [Sometimes that is hard to do, if you just lost a good one]

 

[WyomingRancher]

One of my biggest mistakes with dogs, was teaching them to drive, first, if the dog is always bringing them too you, it is much easier for them to grasp what you are expecting. Only after he is fully proficient at this, will I begin to drive with them. If I do need to drive, they expected to stay behind me and let me work, then when I mess up, I send the dogs, and I go to the front like I should have done in the first place. But seriously, they do need to master fetching, before driving is added.

One of my biggest mistakes was trying to work a sensitive dog with a hard dog :roll:. Eventually, over time we were able to get along okay, but it wasn't very smooth going at first. I know it isn't generally recommended, but it's what I had in dogs, and I had to make the best of it.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

 

[Bootheel]

One of my biggest mistakes with dogs, was teaching them to drive, first, if the dog is always bringing them too you, it is much easier for them to grasp what you are expecting. Only after he is fully proficient at this, will I begin to drive with them. If I do need to drive, they expected to stay behind me and let me work, then when I mess up, I send the dogs, and I go to the front like I should have done in the first place. But seriously, they do need to master fetching, before driving is added.

One of my biggest mistakes was trying to work a sensitive dog with a hard dog :roll:. Eventually, over time we were able to get along okay, but it wasn't very smooth going at first. I know it isn't generally recommended, but it's what I had in dogs, and I had to make the best of it.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

WR, I fight the same thing, Lefty needs a little harder handle than the rest of my dogs, and it fouls them up a bit. I do not have a good answer, but I still get the job done even if I if it slows the development of one or both a bit. If the job requires two dogs, use them, if not, your probably making harder on all involved.

 

[turkey track]

WR I also have had this situation, not ideal at all but both dogs were trained seperatly.So when i started to work them together some confussion, when i was been tough on my hard headed dog the more timid dog would think she also doing something wrong. I would always have to reinforce the timed dog she was doing a good job. I guess in time she got used to my sterner voice with the other dog, and thats' probably where you are at also.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

OH I like him.

He has a tip on his tail so you could call him Tip

Tippy for short. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I got looking back at old dog posts and had a laugh at this 10 year old post.
I got a new pup last spring and called him Tippy. I must like that name.

 

[Mountain Cowgirl]

Border Collies are the #1 dog used for herding cattle on ranches around these parts with Great Pyrenees the #1 choice for sheep ranchers. I have witnessed the Pyrenees running down coyotes with a 100-yard lead. If sheared they look like a Greyhound. I haven't been to a Border Collie exposition contest for years. A well-trained pair is a joy to watch.

 

[Leilani]

I recently saw an amazing display of what a dog can do. How many ranches use working dogs as part of their cattle handling? What breed and where did you get your dog(s)? Male or female - fully trained or started or as a pup?
Thank you

I use dogs for our cattle heres Cassie female German Shepard trained as a pup one of the few cattle dogs on our farm these photos were taken at our old house now we live in the country where we can live a lot closer to all our animals

 

[Faster horses]

Beautiful dog!!!
We used Blue Heeler FEMALES or Blue Heeler cross. Our last dog was the best dog we ever had.
We were never sure what she was......they were called "the Birrer dogs" and had quite a good reputation in SW Montana. We were lucky to get one and she was the BEST! I swear that dog could count. What a partner she was. Mr. FH is very good with dogs and he had her trained so that she listened and she minded. Her biggest fault is that she was protective of HER stuff be it her people, her vehicles or her house. We loved her for years. Good dogs don't live long enough.

 

[Leilani]

Beautiful dog!!!
We used Blue Heeler FEMALES or Blue Heeler cross. Our last dog was the best dog we ever had.
We were never sure what she was......they were called "the Birrer dogs" and had quite a good reputation in SW Montana. We were lucky to get one and she was the BEST! I swear that dog could count. What a partner she was. Mr. FH is very good with dogs and he had her trained so that she listened and she minded. Her biggest fault is that she was protective of HER stuff be it her people, her vehicles or her house. We loved her for years. Good dogs don't live long enough.

She's beautiful !

 

[Faster horses]

She's beautiful !

Thank you! She was yellow and white, with very coarse hair and was natural bob-tailed. We were told she was Yellow McNab cross, but I never could find a breed called Yellow McNab. Maybe some black mouth cur way back. We never could find out. Birrers raised them for so long, they said they forgot. They just waited to find a male that looked like their dogs and then bred their females to him. Interesting, huh?