Cattle Producers Urge Ottawa to Step Up with Programs

[TimH]

Sandhusker wrote-(more than once)

One thing to keep in mind that, depending on timing, 1000 trades might not move the market, but a single trade could trigger an avalanche of stops. The same princible applies to feeders. The real pushers are not always on the surface.

Good answer. Is it fresh or "canned"?

PS.- It's "principle". Not "princible".

 

[Econ101]

Sandhusker wrote-(more than once)

One thing to keep in mind that, depending on timing, 1000 trades might not move the market, but a single trade could trigger an avalanche of stops. The same princible applies to feeders. The real pushers are not always on the surface.

Good answer. Is it fresh or "canned"?

PS.- It's "principle". Not "princible".

TimH, absent a spellchecker, we were really trying to limit the secretarial duties to MRJ. If you want to share her salary, you will have to take it up with her.

 

[TimH]

Sandhusker wrote-(more than once)

One thing to keep in mind that, depending on timing, 1000 trades might not move the market, but a single trade could trigger an avalanche of stops. The same princible applies to feeders. The real pushers are not always on the surface.

Good answer. Is it fresh or "canned"?

PS.- It's "principle". Not "princible".

TimH, absent a spellchecker, we were really trying to limit the secretarial duties to MRJ. If you want to share her salary, you will have to take it up with her.

Point taken, Econ. I just found it a little a little odd that a banker would spell "principle" wrong in two separate posts. I would think that a banker should know how to spell principle properly, as well as principal(the stuff that bankers lend to ranchers with interest), and that he would know the difference between the two. :roll:

Perhaps you would be so kind as to put your superior knowledge of economics to use and expand on Sandhusker's canned answer for the benefit of of a layman like me........here is the quote....

"One thing to keep in mind that, depending on timing, 1000 trades might not move the market, but a single trade could trigger an avalanche of stops. The same princible applies to feeders. The real pushers are not always on the surface."

 

[Anonymous]

OT's speculative shortsighted "pearls of wisdom" on the Canadian border:

Border open= years of low or hohum prices (checkoff be damned)

Border closed= record high prices on calves, culls and fats

Border opened= prices back on the downswing into the hohum to low levels again

Fact:

In the fall of 2005 the Canadian border was opened and feeder calf prices were higher than they were in the fall of 2004 when the Canadian border was closed proving how shortsighted your shallow import blaming market analysis is.


~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Sandhusker wrote-(more than once)


Good answer. Is it fresh or "canned"?

PS.- It's "principle". Not "princible".

TimH, absent a spellchecker, we were really trying to limit the secretarial duties to MRJ. If you want to share her salary, you will have to take it up with her.

Point taken, Econ. I just found it a little a little odd that a banker would spell "principle" wrong in two separate posts. I would think that a banker should know how to spell principle properly, as well as principal(the stuff that bankers lend to ranchers with interest), and that he would know the difference between the two. :roll:

Perhaps you would be so kind as to put your superior knowledge of economics to use and expand on Sandhusker's canned answer for the benefit of of a layman like me........here is the quote....

"One thing to keep in mind that, depending on timing, 1000 trades might not move the market, but a single trade could trigger an avalanche of stops. The same princible applies to feeders. The real pushers are not always on the surface."

Tim, An easy way to remember which "principle" to use is that the one with the "pal" (principal) is a person, a friend, or a pal. The other one is not.

I don't like to get into the correct english thing because it limits people's thought processes to their correctness or their ability to type. I want to be able to read what someone like don thinks without having to correct his writing. Often you will notice i don't use capitals correctly, not because I don't know how, but I do not want to emphasize the grammer, but the thought. Besides that, i rarely proof read my posts and I know that my typing goes a lot slower than what i am thinking about.

If you were writing a technical paper, it would be a lot different.

The point Sandhusker brought up has more to do with the way the stock market works and how orders are executed on it than the economics behind it. I am sure Sandhusker will explain that to you and not hold it against you for not knowing.

 

[Anonymous]

You can imagine any reason you want- but the facts stand that since the Border opened the US cattle market has slowly dropped- and since this 3rd POST feedban Canadian cow was announced it has really dumped...

Fats futures below $80 all thru Oct- some feeders trading below $100 today....

Lots of producers that saw those record prices while the border was closed now can't even get a buyer to talk to them--They are having a hard time not believing that the closed border and imports didn't have a major impact on prices......

Even tho the courts don't want to look at the evidence- there are a lot of legislators out there getting an earful about USDA's policy making decisions.......

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

You can imagine any reason you want- but the facts stand that since the Border opened the US cattle market has slowly dropped- and since this 3rd POST feedban Canadian cow was announced it has really dumped...

Fats futures below $80 all thru Oct- some feeders trading below $100 today....

Lots of producers that saw those record prices while the border was closed now can't even get a buyer to talk to them--They are having a hard time not believing that the closed border and imports didn't have a major impact on prices......

Even tho the courts don't want to look at the evidence- there are a lot of legislators out there getting an earful about USDA's policy making decisions.......

What do you expect them to beleive, All they have heard from R-CALF since it's inception was" Blame the Canadians".
Has R-CALF told you about the 45% more chicken in cold storage?
About how heavier carcass wt. bring supplies up ?

 

[Anonymous]

You can imagine any reason you want- but the facts stand that since the Border opened the US cattle market has slowly dropped- and since this 3rd POST feedban Canadian cow was announced it has really dumped...

Fats futures below $80 all thru Oct- some feeders trading below $100 today....

Lots of producers that saw those record prices while the border was closed now can't even get a buyer to talk to them--They are having a hard time not believing that the closed border and imports didn't have a major impact on prices......

Even tho the courts don't want to look at the evidence- there are a lot of legislators out there getting an earful about USDA's policy making decisions.......

Has R-CALF told you about the 45% more chicken in cold storage?
About how heavier carcass wt. bring supplies up ?

Sure shouldn't be importing any more beef or meat of any kind then if we have a such a surplus.....We shouldn't import what we don't need.....

Oh thats right--- we have to let you guys up north ride the US shirttails at the expense to the US producer-- another government subsidize Canada and Mexico program called NAFTA.... Let them send down their cheap packer owned captive supply, don't mark it so consumers can choose, and lower the market prices..... :roll:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

You can imagine any reason you want- but the facts stand that since the Border opened the US cattle market has slowly dropped- and since this 3rd POST feedban Canadian cow was announced it has really dumped...

Fats futures below $80 all thru Oct- some feeders trading below $100 today....

Lots of producers that saw those record prices while the border was closed now can't even get a buyer to talk to them--They are having a hard time not believing that the closed border and imports didn't have a major impact on prices......

Even tho the courts don't want to look at the evidence- there are a lot of legislators out there getting an earful about USDA's policy making decisions.......

Has R-CALF told you about the 45% more chicken in cold storage?
About how heavier carcass wt. bring supplies up ?

Sure shouldn't be importing any more beef or meat of any kind then if we have a such a surplus.....We shouldn't import what we don't need.....

Oh thats right--- we have to let you guys up north ride the US shirttails at the expense to the US producer-- another government subsidize Canada and Mexico program called NAFTA.... Let them send down their cheap packer owned captive supply, don't mark it so consumers can choose, and lower the market prices..... :roll:

Why are our cattle so CHEAP? We have more winter in most of Canada then most of the US our feed bill should be higher. Freight is expensive so why are they hauling cattle all the way from up here? Maybe it's better cattle.

 

[TimH]

You can imagine any reason you want- but the facts stand that since the Border opened the US cattle market has slowly dropped- and since this 3rd POST feedban Canadian cow was announced it has really dumped...

Fats futures below $80 all thru Oct- some feeders trading below $100 today....

Lots of producers that saw those record prices while the border was closed now can't even get a buyer to talk to them--They are having a hard time not believing that the closed border and imports didn't have a major impact on prices......

Even tho the courts don't want to look at the evidence- there are a lot of legislators out there getting an earful about USDA's policy making decisions.......

Has R-CALF told you about the 45% more chicken in cold storage?
About how heavier carcass wt. bring supplies up ?

Sure shouldn't be importing any more beef or meat of any kind then if we have a such a surplus.....We shouldn't import what we don't need.....

Oh thats right--- we have to let you guys up north ride the US shirttails at the expense to the US producer-- another government subsidize Canada and Mexico program called NAFTA.... Let them send down their cheap packer owned captive supply, don't mark it so consumers can choose, and lower the market prices..... :roll:

There's that "shirtail" thing again!!! Hilarious!!!

Supplying a product of similar or superior quality at a competitive price is called competition. People who are afraid to compete globally are called protectionists. Plain and simple.
What subsidies Oldtimer???? Do you mean the USA's "export enhancement" on US corn that drives down the price of CDN barley and makes it cheap to feed cattle up here????

I was listening to 660 KEYZ out of Williston ND the other day and they were advertising a farm/ranch auction sale in Montana somewhere. Among the items listed were a Versatile and a Zetor tractor. I guess the Montana Rancher that originally bought those foreign pieces of equipment "forgot" to buy American, eh!!!!!!!!!!!
We've sold thousands of tons of hay into ND and Montana over the years. Why aren't these guys buying American hay?????
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it was YOU that mentioned buying round bales of barley straw out of Canada a while back!

Thanks once again for the chuckles!!!

LONG LIVE R-CALF!!!!

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Tim,


Whats say you, BMR and myself spring and get OT a shirt with no shirttails so nobody can ride on them........ maybe we could get him one of those little cowboy hats with the whilstle on a string...... :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

TimH

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it was YOU that mentioned buying round bales of barley straw out of Canada a while back!

Nope- wasn't me that bought some... It was Langen Feedlot that had them.... I fed them to the cattle I was feeding for them on the point...

I've never bought hay out of Canada- altho it was quite tempting after the guys north of us got paid to seed their fields back to hay and pasture and were selling hay for as little as $22 Ton :roll: .....Lot of those guys then became cattle producers on the new pasture which helped overglut the cattle supply- especially when you basically only had one export customer.......

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

OT- When did Canadian producers get paid to seed down their ground to grass? I know there was no programs offfered like that around here. I sure wish they would start some programs like that. A lot of the land that was broke up in Canada should have been left in native prairie.

 

[TimH]

TimH

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it was YOU that mentioned buying round bales of barley straw out of Canada a while back!

Nope- wasn't me that bought some... It was Langen Feedlot that had them.... I fed them to the cattle I was feeding for them on the point...

I've never bought hay out of Canada- altho it was quite tempting after the guys north of us got paid to seed their fields back to hay and pasture and were selling hay for as little as $22 Ton :roll: .....Lot of those guys then became cattle producers on the new pasture which helped overglut the cattle supply- especially when you basically only had one export customer.......

Ok. I stand corrected. It wasn't you but an American cattle producer none the less.

And the difference between "subsidised" $22/per ton hay and "export enhanced" US corn is...................?????????????

 

[Anonymous]

OT- When did Canadian producers get paid to seed down their ground to grass? I know there was no programs offfered like that around here. I sure wish they would start some programs like that. A lot of the land that was broke up in Canada should have been left in native prairie.

Some type of prairie program or prairie province program--I found the website once and posted it here-- after you guys lost the CROW-- they paid to reseed to hay and grass....Anyway according to the Canadian fellows selling hay they all got paid up to $85 an acre to put it back into hay or pasture...Ended up with an overglut of hay, so was selling for $40T Canadian which came out to be about $22T US.... Some of those guys hauled hay south all summer for a couple years- which in turn almost put some local hay producers out of business......
Several hauled hay all summer when not haying- then hooked onto the bullhaulers and hauled cattle the rest of the year...

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

OT- When did Canadian producers get paid to seed down their ground to grass? I know there was no programs offfered like that around here. I sure wish they would start some programs like that. A lot of the land that was broke up in Canada should have been left in native prairie.

Some type of prairie program or prairie province program--I found the website once and posted it here-- after you guys lost the CROW-- they paid to reseed to hay and grass....Anyway according to the Canadian fellows selling hay they all got paid up to $85 an acre to put it back into hay or pasture...Ended up with an overglut of hay, so was selling for $40T Canadian which came out to be about $22T US.... Some of those guys hauled hay south all summer for a couple years- which in turn almost put some local hay producers out of business......
Several hauled hay all summer when not haying- then hooked onto the bullhaulers and hauled cattle the rest of the year...

Ot could you try and find that info again? Im almost positive there has never been a program like that in Manitoba. There is a program that pays for the seed to sow down slaine spots but you cant hay it or graze it.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Anyway according to the Canadian fellows selling hay they all got paid up to $85 an acre to put it back into hay or pasture...Ended up with an overglut of hay, so was selling for $40T Canadian which came out to be about $22T US....

OT, you seem to get things confuzzled from time to time. The grass program you spoke of didn't come close to $85 an acre. Perhaps that was a maximum set out, but certainly no-one got it, based on the requirements of the program. I'll see if I can find the original paperwork for you and scan it in.

As far as the glut goes, that wasn't caused by the program. Actually, the program was a raging failure, as farmers took old grass/hay out of production, and sowed down new fields, then cropped the old ones. Total grass/hay acreage didn't go up. Or at least it didn't go up to the extent that we expanded our animal production.

Anyway, the glut was caused by the Japanese reducing imports of our alfalfa cubes. A few years ago, it was a heyday up here, with dehydration plants spouting up all over. Most of those plants are now closed, and with grain farming being what its not, most farmers have left their land in alfalfa and are simply taking the $20/ton. Also, a few wet years bumped our grass and alfalfa production through the roof in many areas, especially the north east. I had some old (15 yrs) ground spitting out 3 ton/acre.

I'm sorry to hear about your hay guys going under, but like someone else mentioned, its called competition. Canada has a leg up on production costs and we aren't subsidized near as heavily as most other countries (including the USA). I don't blame you for being angry about how difficult it is to make a living, but take out your frustrations on someone other than us. We're scrambling, trying to make a living and fighting the same forces that US producers are trying to fight. Its much better that we work together, not against one another.

Rod

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

OT did some of that CRP hay that got put up put any pressure on the hay market down there. I don't know how they fed a cow in Sheridan county Montana before CRP.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

OT- Just likes to complain. Have you found the info on this program yet OT?

 

[T3023]

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