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change to grass cattle

jodywy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,156
Location
Cabin Creek, Carlile,Wyoming
Having a fight with one of the other forest service permittees, really thinking with the long heavy snow cover here about cross fencing my mountain hay meadows and irrigate and try some intensive grazing of yearlings. Probably keep haying the dry farm upland alfalfa and small grain, would put some grain ground into grass. Keep my ewes, sell the permit and cows. Have always felt cow-calf spread out the risk, but the cost of fuel to hay and feed, would need to do a lot of new fencing.
Just asking for thoughts
 
Wow, that would be a big change! Could you run enough yearlings that way to make up the calf check? I really don't know anything about it...

How long does your water last? Ours is out by July 1st usually.
 
They say a change is as good as a rest. :D

If you can find a reputable outfit custom grazing can eliminate some risk but can also limit rewards of the market.

It could also cut the work load in the winter with less cattle around.
 
Nicky said:
Wow, that would be a big change! Could you run enough yearlings that way to make up the calf check? I really don't know anything about it...

How long does your water last? Ours is out by July 1st usually.

I take water off and after hay up water into early Oct.
 
Jody know your country pretty well I think you could do well running yearling up there. We are pretty much in the same climate as far as winter and the fourth of july. I keep tell my dad and uncle that are we are are hobby farmers we work twice as hard to put up one crop of hay than the folks in the mid west do putting up 4 or 5 crops. If I were you I would put everything in grass cut enough for you sheep and run yearlings in the summer and enjoy life. I know if we didn't have our desert premit we wouldn't be running cows it is to expensive to feed that much hay for 6 months of the year. Wish you the best on your decision.
 
Spent to day talking, e-mailing to 3 extension agents, one off in Argentina right now blasting doves, having lunch with a friend that dose some MIG and lot of electric fence, he also lent me Manage –Intensive Grazing by Jim Gerrish. My Daughter went and took maps of the ranch to her Range management Professor. Their take roughly a 600 Lb steer/ Acre/90 days. Some said the grass would get ahead and we have to clip, and leave or clip and bale , other was more pastures moving hot wire every where from once a day to 4 times a day, to 3-5 day in existing fields and pasture probably going over 2 to 3 times in the 90 days. One might even have the stockers but he was thinking $15/month/head, I told him more like fifty cents/ lb. gain. Then almost all said to fallow the steers with the sheep.
Banker talked loan if cattle were hedged or price insured
Still got some pencil to push to make this big of jump
 
Have you got a way to keep some of your own calves over and try it out with them first? Or maybe your country isn't conducive to wintering calves?

I know some guys who have always sold their calves at weaning, but then talk about buying some calves. I always tell them that the best way to get some experience is to run their own calves over as yearlings first. They've always got a health advantage over those that you ship in. If a guy can't get along making yearlings out of calves raised on his place, he's going to have even more trouble with the put-togethers.

Not to mention the fact that it gives you some more accurate figures to crunch than what you can get from a lot of the research/extension/county agent types. I've found that their budgets work real good if you have the college checkbook to help bail you out. Not so good if you're depending on real money.

Good luck, though. To me, there's not a more pleasant way to be in the cattle business than when you get a set of calves straightened out and watch 'em put their heads down and work their way into yearlings.
 
we used to run cow /calf /yearling, last year we ran yearling was the Summer Yellowstone burned. Been selling calves almost as big as the tearlings my Grand Dad used to but on the railroad to ship to Ill.
just looking at $4+ fuel and all that hay to put up then around 3 tons fed back to a cow thru the winter just to get a calf.
 
This ranch always ran grass cattle since 1937, about 20 years ago I switched over to cow calf. We have always wintered our own calves and sold some in the spring and put some out to custom graze for a few years. Because of the markets we didn't feel it was worth the risk to help pay for someone else' pasture. My son has since bought some grass and will custom graze yearlings for us. At least the pasture bill will help him out if we don't happen to make anything. :D
looks to me that with these higher grain prices.(If we are allowed to talk about grain) the gains on grass should be profitable.
 
Remember the cheque might be less, but the winters are free and the expenses are way less.
If you have grass getting ahead of you, could always take in some animals custom that don't require the forage quality (eg: pairs).
 
Is there a need custom grazing in your area? I was reading the thread on pasture rental rates in SD and decided at those rates I would make more money renting my pasture out than running cow calf pairs. Making/feeding hay is taking the bite out of the profits. I would suggest reading Stan Parsons (Ranching For Profit BLUE BOOK) and/or Allon Savory's Holistic Management a new framework for decision making plus his land planning handbook.

Parsons book is available at this site
http://www.ranchmanagement.com/index.html

Savory's books can be bought at Amazon or HMI's website

http://www.holisticmanagement.org./

Both sites are worth checking out for ideas.

Good luck with your future plans
 
jodywy said:
Spent to day talking, e-mailing to 3 extension agents, one off in Argentina right now blasting doves, having lunch with a friend that dose some MIG and lot of electric fence, he also lent me Manage –Intensive Grazing by Jim Gerrish. My Daughter went and took maps of the ranch to her Range management Professor. Their take roughly a 600 Lb steer/ Acre/90 days. Some said the grass would get ahead and we have to clip, and leave or clip and bale , other was more pastures moving hot wire every where from once a day to 4 times a day, to 3-5 day in existing fields and pasture probably going over 2 to 3 times in the 90 days. One might even have the stockers but he was thinking $15/month/head, I told him more like fifty cents/ lb. gain. Then almost all said to fallow the steers with the sheep.
Banker talked loan if cattle were hedged or price insured
Still got some pencil to push to make this big of jump

I am a huge fan of rotational grazing, but not so much of intensive grazing. In my opinion, if you have to baby sit beef cattle the same as you would a dairy, it is way to labor intensive. I would recommend getting someone out who can identify your plants, and help set up a grazing plan. Way back when, I spent alot of time range judging, in high school, and college, and all I ever heard was intensive grazing, the Savory system, and the likes. In the last 4 or 5 years, University of Nebraska, has come out saying that, in the Sandhills atleast, you get the same dollars out of large pasture grazing, as you do in paddock grazing.
Talk to some of the guys who are successful running grass cattle in your area, and find out what they are doing.
The other thing to consider are your fences. I know from experience, that fences better be in better shape with the grass cattle, then with cow calf.
 
The rate of rotation of cattle thru pastures depends on you land base, carrying capacity, forage species, moisture and how much management you are willing to supply for increase production. The area I live in grass can recover under 45 days and be ready for grazing again.

Savory and Parson's books are far more than pasture design and should be required reading in any university ag program.
 
[

I am a huge fan of rotational grazing, but not so much of intensive grazing. In my opinion, if you have to baby sit beef cattle the same as you would a dairy, it is way to labor intensive. I would recommend getting someone out who can identify your plants, and help set up a grazing plan. Way back when, I spent alot of time range judging, in high school, and college, and all I ever heard was intensive grazing, the Savory system, and the likes. In the last 4 or 5 years, University of Nebraska, has come out saying that, in the Sandhills atleast, you get the same dollars out of large pasture grazing, as you do in paddock grazing.
Talk to some of the guys who are successful running grass cattle in your area, and find out what they are doing.
The other thing to consider are your fences. I know from experience, that fences better be in better shape with the grass cattle, then with cow calf.[/quote]

I agree----so called 'management intensive grazing'?? 'intensive' is just a tad too 'intense' for me---and i can't hit it every 15 minutes in a brittle envirionment anyhow..

Savory, etal's, concepts seem to have evolved into a 'holism' concept and one in which all aspects--family, goals, personal satisfaction, lifestyle, etc are all considered--i like that.

Simple stuff helps a lot for us---calving later, changing/rotating the season of use, for starters. Feeding late. We probably subsidize our cows later than most---and start sooner---but feed less, if that makes any sense. We use best hay we got as protein supplement thru most of the winter---In the past, we have increased body condition substantially by 30# alf every 3rd day---everbody gets filled up, goes to water and comes back and cleans it up at this rate---it figures out to 300# a mo for feb. Not bad for this country. And feeding rate has decreased, since we're going onto more old grass in better condition than we used to and calving later. It's also a way to utilize rank rough fescue, it comes back better and gets more even utilization when you get rid of the wolfy stuff.

In spring, we figure every day we turn out to early will cost you about 3 days grass eventually and it's mostly water anyhow. We'll basically feed them about as much as they'll eat for as long as they'll eat it----right now pairs are ambling in to about 10#, every second or 3 rd day. But field hasn't been used for 3 yrs. It'll be pretty well nuked when I leave. Ya leave half--which half do they leave? With apr 1 calving and several easy past winters, other than storms---we probably havn't been on 'full feed' till late march.

On the storm deals, it's gonna take a cow so much energy to stay warm---we can throw than energy out there or the cow will take it off her back---it's gonna come from somewhere---as are all her requirements--every day. That's kinda our deal---meet their requirements at cheapest input cost----if she's got lotsa energy in front of her, but needs some protein to make it work, we better show up with that.

anyway, just rambling, beautiful morning in big sky country.
 
Soapweed said:
When everyone wants to run grassers, and no one wants to calve out cows, the grass deal won't be so rosy. :wink:

Good point, Soap! :wink: Though with the environment he lives in I do understand Jody's desire to get away from a lot of winter feeding and calving.

I'll just throw this idea out there as a goal I'm working toward myself. Probably wouldn't work for Jody though because it does not save feed, fuel, or chores. I would like to get to the point where I am able to keep all of my calves over and market as yearlings off grass the following year.

I sold my herd down drastically in the fall of '02 due to drought and health problems. I couldn't have sold at a worse time but did what I had to do. I have been rebuilding my herd since then by keeping my own replacements. I keep most all my heifers and cull after they have (or don't have) their first calf. Currently I still take in 60 pairs from a neighbor for summer pasture which helps with cash flow through the summer months. ($27/AUM for the other discussion)

My marketing strategy for last year's calves has consisted of putting together a package deal and taking the stock trailer to town every month or two through the winter. This has been successful the way the market has picked up since last fall. I intended to go yesterday with a load. Got the calves locked up in the corral and then this snow deal hit. Might still go on Monday.

I'm raising my own home grown yearlings so I don't have the unknowns of purchasing them, and no trucking charges against them until they leave the place. If I keep on keeping calves to yearlings, I won't be able to run as many cows as a cow/calf sell calves in the fall deal. But I will still have a lot of chores and feeding to do.

I realize this post is probably little help to Jody. I wish him well in whatever he decides to do.
 
There is no one size fits all in ranching. each ranch is different, each operaterator has different skills and different obectives.

Generaly speaking, I believe there is more profit in the cow calf business. You have to decide just what you are selling. In the yearling business you are mostly selling your grass. With the cow calf business you are selling your labor, your skills, and your expertise, as well as your grass, and also a need for a return on your investment.

You have to consider, your age, your health and your land ownership. Everyones financial situation is different, as well as their families goals.
 
Clarencen said:
There is no one size fits all in ranching. each ranch is different, each operaterator has different skills and different obectives.

Generaly speaking, I believe there is more profit in the cow calf business. You have to decide just what you are selling. In the yearling business you are mostly selling your grass. With the cow calf business you are selling your labor, your skills, and your expertise, as well as your grass, and also a need for a return on your investment.

You have to consider, your age, your health and your land ownership. Everyones financial situation is different, as well as their families goals.

You are so right Clarence, :D
The neat this about ranchers.net is we can all learn from other peoples experiences (mistakes) and see how things might work on our own place. :D :D
 
The permit seems to be the biggest issue. I know of one outfit that constantly battled the calving in the winter deal because they had to have calves big enough to follow the cows to the permit. Eventually they moved calving dates back which saved a lot of labor and quite a bit of hay. They kept fewer cows at home and ran their own yearlings on the permit. Dont have any idea if that might work but as has been said before there can be more than one solution to a problem.
 

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