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Changing calving seasons

I pretty much spoke my piece on later calving in Big Swede's "Calving later?" thread. Here it is easy to click on. http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24616

At this point I would not go back to early calving Cetainly not much fun today with knee deep snow and below 0 temps around here, but there are guys out there doing it.

I just can't do stuff like I did when I was younger. Last summer during hay season I found out that a relatively simple electrical glitch with my pacemaker can put me on the sidelines real fast. My later calving season makes it so the cows can calve with minimal supervison or assistance if I go haywire.

I haven't even touched the calf puller for a couple years. I'm not sure if that is a side benefit of the later calving, or better selection of bulls and replacement heifers.

I do believe early calvers have bigger calves due to the increased circulation during the last trimester of calf development because of cold weather. Those cows out there in the weather today must have their internal furnaces cranked up on high. :wink:
 
I don't know which is better, as we do both. I know the labor is less with the later calvers. But, as a seedstock supplier, our heifer market has pretty much dried up, as no one in our market wants a May or June heifer as it doesn't fit their program. What we did last year and will from here on out, to fill the income hole of the heifers is sort off cows that didn't quite fit our program and breed them a little earlier and sell bred cows, and keep more heifers back. We bred them to start calving in April and this time frame fits alot of people in both the commercial and registered ranches. As far as the bulls go, ussually the yearling bulls out sell the coming two's, but this year the two's outsold the yearlings by quite a lot. Their are positives for both seasons, you just have to decide which fits your labor, time, marketing and resources better.
 
I don't think I've ever bought him a bull over 85 pounds BW and always around not sure if any under a 100 index at weaning-they are usually mid 600's. Don't pay much attention to it as it's not the main selection focus. If there was ever a weight can be manufactured it's weaning. I can't imagine having to assist that many cows-nobody can accuse you of not earning your money. I'd like to see that vets attitude about assists if he was running a few hundred of his own cows.
 
3words said:
I had a vet from the university tell me one time that if you weren't pulling 15% of the calves when they were born,you weren't seeing the real potential that your cow herd was able of.
Click to expand...

To each his own.
Testing cows for their potential to have big birth wieght calves sounds like a sure way to increase labor requirements, calving problems, post partum interval, reduce % pregs, etc, etc, etc, all things I prefer to avoid. Sounds like advice given by some one who is in a profession that will benefit from such a testing strategy, not someone who actually earns a living from his cows. :-)
 
Dylan Biggs said:
3words said:
I had a vet from the university tell me one time that if you weren't pulling 15% of the calves when they were born,you weren't seeing the real potential that your cow herd was able of.
Click to expand...

To each his own.
Testing cows for their potential to have big birth wieght calves sounds like a sure way to increase labor requirements, calving problems, post partum interval, reduce % pregs, etc, etc, etc, all things I prefer to avoid. Sounds like advice given by some one who is in a profession that will benefit from such a testing strategy, not someone who actually earns a living from his cows. :-)
Click to expand...

:agree: :agree: :agree:

I'm sure these cows could wean bigger calves if I'd go for more growth bulls, but I'm not giving up calving ease... NO WAY! :D My neighbors do have those big calves out of their cows, and have really heavy calves in the fall, so they probably think I'm the misguided one :lol: .

I did have the biggest cow on the ranch calve this week (she was purchased as a bred heifer), and that big old calf just lugged around, finally getting up and getting nursed. Those calves absolutely drive me nuts, but I'm sure he'll pound the scales this fall if he makes it :D .

You're right, to each his own :wink: .
 
WyomingRancher said:
I did have the biggest cow on the ranch calve this week (she was purchased as a bred heifer), and that big old calf just lugged around, finally getting up and getting nursed. Those calves absolutely drive me nuts, but I'm sure he'll pound the scales this fall if he makes it :D .
Click to expand...

FLASH BACK, to the 70's and early eighties, my Dad was on the exotic growth kick and I was the designated occupational therapist for the for the dystocia impaired calves that needed my help learning to stand and suck. Oh man, Thanks alot WR, I won't be able to sleep for days now, I think my condition has a medical term PTDCSD ( post traumatic dunmb calf stress disorder). Burn out rate for therapists in this feild is very high and many suffer my same condition. :D :D :D :D
 
Justin said:
gcreekrch said:
It still takes 200 days for a calf to be 200 days old. :wink:
Click to expand...

:nod:

what about 205 days, how long does that take?

nevermind, i think i got it. :wink:
Click to expand...

What difference of weight you want those 200 day old calves is up to you though.You want calving ease,that is going to cost you in lbs in the fall.I calve in winter,so i got to watch the cows anyways,and if i have to pull a few no big deal.So i use heavier birth weight bulls,with a lot of performance.I'm not saying thats right,and i'm not saying it's wrong,every ranch or farm does what they think is right for them.
 
Soapweed said:
Would heifers who were born in May and June themselves be as able to calve entirely without assistance?
Click to expand...

We have been experimenting with late spring early summer calving since the mid ninties and I can confidently say that assuming one doesn't make a wrong bull choice that extra age on the hiefers is not needed to have consistent 98% to 99% unassisted calving percentages.

There are years where we have 0 assists, and then years like last year where I chose the wrong bull and we had a 16% assist rate, got lucky tough were able to save them all and none of them needed any assistance once they were out.
 
3words said:
Justin said:
gcreekrch said:
It still takes 200 days for a calf to be 200 days old. :wink:
Click to expand...

:nod:

what about 205 days, how long does that take?

nevermind, i think i got it. :wink:
Click to expand...

What difference of weight you want those 200 day old calves is up to you though.You want calving ease,that is going to cost you in lbs in the fall.I calve in winter,so i got to watch the cows anyways,and if i have to pull a few no big deal.So i use heavier birth weight bulls,with a lot of performance.I'm not saying thats right,and i'm not saying it's wrong,every ranch or farm does what they think is right for them.
Click to expand...

You are right that there is no magic formula for evey place and what doesn't work on one place can work very well on another. It is also true that what "works" on one place will change as time goes on and the people involved change their minds due to a long list of variables, personal preferences and quality of life considerations.
 
Anyone who selects for 15% assist rate in cows needs shock therapy in my opinion. That means a good percent of those cows will be slower to cycle again, slow calves, vet bills, dead calves, more labor, less sleep, more stress. Gee I think I could go on but I won't.

I assisted 1 out of 550 last year and that was a heifer that was about a week overdue. Calving ease is very important to me if you haven't gathered that already. :wink: :lol:

Just remember, the guy that started this thread was just looking for ideas and insight from later calvers. He wasn't trying to convert anyone else.
 
Dylan Biggs said:
WyomingRancher said:
I did have the biggest cow on the ranch calve this week (she was purchased as a bred heifer), and that big old calf just lugged around, finally getting up and getting nursed. Those calves absolutely drive me nuts, but I'm sure he'll pound the scales this fall if he makes it :D .
Click to expand...

FLASH BACK, to the 70's and early eighties, my Dad was on the exotic growth kick and I was the designated occupational therapist for the for the dystocia impaired calves that needed my help learning to stand and suck. Oh man, Thanks alot WR, I won't be able to sleep for days now, I think my condition has a medical term PTDCSD ( post traumatic dunmb calf stress disorder). Burn out rate for therapists in this feild is very high and many suffer my same condition. :D :D :D :D
Click to expand...

Woops, I didn't mean to cause you to relapse :lol: ! I had those same-type nightmares after Big Swede told us about having to re-pair calves after a spring storm... I still can't get over that one :shock: .

Rest assured, I've never helped this cow or her calves. If I ever have to touch a cow during calving for ANYTHING other than a calving malpresentation, she gets her ear tag notched, loaded onto a truck in the fall, and sold as a weigh-up :wink: . I have zero tolerance for extra work. My boyfriend teases me that if a cow even pees on a rock wrong, she's culled... there may be a little truth to that, ha! :D
 
Dylan Biggs said:
Soapweed said:
Would heifers who were born in May and June themselves be as able to calve entirely without assistance?
Click to expand...

We have been experimenting with late spring early summer calving since the mid ninties and I can confidently say that assuming one doesn't make a wrong bull choice that extra age on the hiefers is not needed to have consistent 98% to 99% unassisted calving percentages.

There are years where we have 0 assists, and then years like last year where I chose the wrong bull and we had a 16% assist rate, got lucky tough were able to save them all and none of them needed any assistance once they were out.
Click to expand...

We are finding the same thing here. Bull selection has a lot to do with unassisted calving AND breeding back. We calved 70 heifers last year, assisted 2, weaned 100% and had an 88% breedback. The empty heifers weighed just a touch over 900 lbs. Their calves at 195 days averaged about 460 shrunk weight. That puts the calves at about 2 lbs/per/day on swamp grass. For what we want to spend on a cow, we can't expect much more.
I wouldn't expect these April and May born heifers to breed for late Feb. but a lot of them would.
 
I would like to move calving ahead to May, but I don't have the pasture to do it. As a result I would need a lot more feed, or else just turn them in to the crown land to look after themselves and I can't say as I'm prepared to do that. If I could rent some pasture close to home with a guarantee of several years of use I'd switch in a minute, but it's a lot easier to move the calving season ahead than it is back.
 
Silver said:
I would like to move calving ahead to May, but I don't have the pasture to do it. As a result I would need a lot more feed, or else just turn them in to the crown land to look after themselves and I can't say as I'm prepared to do that. If I could rent some pasture close to home with a guarantee of several years of use I'd switch in a minute, but it's a lot easier to move the calving season ahead than it is back.
Click to expand...

Same paradigm here Silver. Due date this year is April 8, short of having wolves and bears for a calving crew on the range that is about as late as we can go.
 
I think that anybody can scew the facts to make what they are doing seem right. Which is what most of us do. Whether you calve early or late MONEY TALKS and BS WALKS. Set down and figure all of your expenses and then your projected income, you will never calve early again. The days of selling heavy calves for a premium are gone. Those that want to argue look at the market report and see what your 500 weight calves were worth in Oct and see what they were worth in Feb or March. Look back through the archives and compare. There will always be a demand for stalkers, or just sell the yrlngs yourself. When you figure expenses figure your labor, it's not free. For ever hour you spend messing around with something that does have to be done the way it is there is an hour you could spend doing something else, even if you work for free. Then figure in what a good management program will save you in feed expense and machinery as well as labor and you will know the answer. I calved a little over a 1000 cows one spring with just my wife, myself and my dog, 97.5% of the calves born were weaned that fall and the cows pregged at 96%. Those cows calved from April to the end of May. The calves off of the April calvers avg. in the mid 500 range in late Oct. Long story short one man a pregnant wife and his dog calved 1000 hd of cows only fed about 650 lbs/hd of praire hay to the 650 April calvers and did it with reasonable success. It seems in this country it takes much more labor to calve early, a man per 200 hd or so, it may not all be fulltime labor.
 

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