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Check off decision

Sandhusker said:
Agman, "You are looking through welding goggles again. Your view of imports is so narrow it is pathetic. Can you think beyond a negative and consider derived benefits to our entire economy, including the beef industry?"

If you can show me how a Nebraska cattleman can make a greater profit from a consumer in Atlanta buying a Canadian or South American steak instead of a steak from an animal born, raised and slaughtered in the US, I'll give you my welding goggles.

[Are we, or are we not, selling all the USA produced beef available? Would the USA cattle producer be better off, or worse off if we had no low cost imported beef available so that more lower income people can afford to eat beef? MRJ]

[Would you believe if he showed you how importing low cost extra lean beef to mix with USA produced fatty trim for hamburger puts more money into ranchers's pockets both from the burger, and from USA produced chuck and round sold as higher value cuts? MRJ]
 
MRJ, "Are we, or are we not, selling all the USA produced beef available? Would the USA cattle producer be better off, or worse off if we had no low cost imported beef available so that more lower income people can afford to eat beef? MRJ] "

MRJ, think about it, that's not the way it works. First of all, lower quality beef is segregated by the cut only, not country of origin - your organization is seeing to that. Maybe you should run that by them? Secondly, the US producer would be better served if the poor folks would buy pork or chicken instead of imported beef. We don't make a dime if a consumer buys a Canadian or South American steak, and buying the competing meats would at least drive up the price of them and make the price of beef more attractive.

MRJ, "Would you believe if he showed you how importing low cost extra lean beef to mix with USA produced fatty trim for hamburger puts more money into ranchers's pockets both from the burger, and from USA produced chuck and round sold as higher value cuts?"

I'll buy that arguement, but I was talking prime cuts, not ground beef.
 
I should have also added processed beef in that question too. Maybe a better way to ask the question would be, "what percentage of all beef produced in the US, is marketed as premium cuts?"
 
From some of the comments I'm seeing on other websites they may need to do a lot of improving in order to satisfy those paying it.... A poll on Agri-talk asked if you approved of the Supreme Court Decision--With 77 votes--It was running 60%NO---39% YES---1% NOT SURE.....


LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
Cattlemen's Beef Board pledges to improve Checkoff in wake of Supreme Court win

by Pete Hisey on 5/24/2005 for Meatingplace.com




Jay O'Brien, vice chairman of the Cattlemen's Beef Board, said that now that the organization's controversial Beef Checkoff program has been ruled constitutional by six justices of the Supreme Court, CBB "will work with all affected organizations to improve the Checkoff. The best way (the complainants) can address their concerns is to work with us." (See Supreme Court upholds Beef Checkoff, Meatingplace.com, May 23, 2005.)

In the majority's opinion, written by Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, the court held that the Checkoff was immune to "compelled-subsidy" and First Amendment attacks. "Because the Beef Checkoff funds the Government's own speech, it is not susceptible to a First Amendment compelled-subsidy challenge," the Court said. "Respondents argue that the speech here is not government speech because it is controlled by nongovernmental agencies, i.e., the Beef Board and Operating Committee. In fact, the message is effectively controlled by the Federal Government. Congress and the Secretary have set out the overarching message and have left the development of the remaining details to the Operating Committee, half of whose members are appointed by the Secretary and all of whom are subject to removal by the Secretary."

Associate Justice David Souter, writing in dissent, said, "Greater care is required to assure that the political process can practically respond to limit the compulsion Jefferson inveighed against." Government, he wrote, has "masked" its role in producing the advertising messages, and that many of the ads "include the tag line, 'Funded by America's Beef Producers,' which all but ensures that no one reading them will suspect that the message comes from the National Government."

Scalia, in his opinion, noted that the Court has protected the right of individuals to refuse to fund private speech with which they disagreed, but the Beef Checkoff consists of government speech, and support of such speech can be compelled. The decision, however, left the losers, mainly the Livestock Marketing Association, the option of objecting to the Checkoff on other than First Amendment grounds.

The LMA, however, said in a statement that while it was bitterly disappointed in the outcome, "we respect the legal system and the Court's deliberations in this case, and we reluctantly accept their decision and will move on from here." LMA President Randy Patterson called on CBB to give producers the right, through a national referendum, to decide which activities the Checkoff should fund or whether the Checkoff should be continued at all."

"We hope they will try to become more inclusive of differing views, and make sure that producers large and small, and from every sector, have a greater voice in Checkoff affairs," Patterson said.

Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns, the object of the lawsuit, said in a statement, "This is certainly a win for the many producers who recognize the power of pooled resources. As this administration has always contended, USDA regards such programs, when properly administered, as effective tools for market enhancement."

O'Brien, for his part, noted that the Checkoff has accomplished a great deal in its 19-year history. Among the high points, he said, are the research that pointed out the necessity of beef in a healthy diet, development of convenient beef products that can be cooked in five minutes, identification of new muscles from the chuck and round that have both raised demand for beef some 25 percent in the last seven years and added $250 to the value of a head of cattle at slaughter. "All together, our activities have increased return on investment for cattlemen everywhere," he said.
 
Sandhusker said:
MRJ, "Are we, or are we not, selling all the USA produced beef available? Would the USA cattle producer be better off, or worse off if we had no low cost imported beef available so that more lower income people can afford to eat beef? MRJ] "

MRJ, think about it, that's not the way it works. First of all, lower quality beef is segregated by the cut only, not country of origin - your organization is seeing to that.

[Your basis for that statement is_____? Isn't it time to face the fact that COOL was fatally flawed and perpetrated the fraud of only pretending to add to the safety of beef? MRJ[

Maybe you should run that by them? Secondly, the US producer would be better served if the poor folks would buy pork or chicken instead of imported beef.

[No way! This is what they do now. We will be better off if they eat more beef, whether produced in the USA or not because that lowest cost beef is added to the US produced fat trim making it more valuable to us, and hamburger is seen by consumers as going the farthest for the dollar spent . MRJ]

We don't make a dime if a consumer buys a Canadian or South American steak, and buying the competing meats would at least drive up the price of them and make the price of beef more attractive.

[I think that idea is delusional....but you are entitled to it if you so choose. MRJ]

MRJ, "Would you believe if he showed you how importing low cost extra lean beef to mix with USA produced fatty trim for hamburger puts more money into ranchers's pockets both from the burger, and from USA produced chuck and round sold as higher value cuts?"

I'll buy that arguement, but I was talking prime cuts, not ground beef.

[You did not state originally that you were limiting the question to prime cuts. I believe that lean trim imported to add value to our fatty trim is the largest tonnage of imported beef (show me the figures if you can prove me wrong here) with the POSSIBLE exception of the high quality cuts of boxed beef imported from Canada. I also believe hamburger is the most consumed "cut" of beef. There seems to be no problem selling all the prime cuts. Are you forgetting how quickly and inexpensively the REAL competitors for our beef, poultry, pork, and soy can increase their production as compared with beef?

MRJ
 
1...Advertise only USA beef.

Symbolism over substance when 95% of the beef at the retail level that is not blended ground beef would be USA beef.

At the current imported beef to domestic beef ratios, differentiation plays in the favor of the imported product due to it's rarity.

If I was a Canadian producer, I would support country of origin labeling if not for the concern of the import blamer's lying about the safety of Canadian beef.

If Canadian beef could stand on it's true merit, Canadians would be foolish not to want to differentiate it from non aged Louisiana swamp cattle.


2...Every cattle producer gets to vote on who sits on their state beef councils.

Anyone who wants to become active in the state beef boards as opposed to being a sideline critic can get involved.


3...A vote on it every so often.....say every 5 years.

Would require a change in law. As it sits now, a vote would only require a measely 10% of LEGITIMATE producer signatures to bring it to a vote.

I don't have any problems with a periodic vote as long as the truth has equal time with the LMA lies about the checkoff. Then voters can make an informed decision, not a misled biased decision.


~SH~
 
Oldtimer said:
From some of the comments I'm seeing on other websites they may need to do a lot of improving in order to satisfy those paying it.... A poll on Agri-talk asked if you approved of the Supreme Court Decision--With 77 votes--It was running 60%NO---39% YES---1% NOT SURE.....

[The polls taken about every six months over past years showing consistently high approval ratings (73% most recently) by cattle producers were "cold", with no advance notice, and on a random basis. The Agri-Talk polls necessarily have an audience primed by hearing interviews on the previous shows. They also are not immune to "prompting" of people to make calls to serve a particular agenda. MRJ]


LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
Cattlemen's Beef Board pledges to improve Checkoff in wake of Supreme Court win

by Pete Hisey on 5/24/2005 for Meatingplace.com




Jay O'Brien, vice chairman of the Cattlemen's Beef Board, said that now that the organization's controversial Beef Checkoff program has been ruled constitutional by six justices of the Supreme Court, CBB "will work with all affected organizations to improve the Checkoff. The best way (the complainants) can address their concerns is to work with us." (See Supreme Court upholds Beef Checkoff, Meatingplace.com, May 23, 2005.)

In the majority's opinion, written by Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, the court held that the Checkoff was immune to "compelled-subsidy" and First Amendment attacks. "Because the Beef Checkoff funds the Government's own speech, it is not susceptible to a First Amendment compelled-subsidy challenge," the Court said. "Respondents argue that the speech here is not government speech because it is controlled by nongovernmental agencies, i.e., the Beef Board and Operating Committee. In fact, the message is effectively controlled by the Federal Government. Congress and the Secretary have set out the overarching message and have left the development of the remaining details to the Operating Committee, half of whose members are appointed by the Secretary and all of whom are subject to removal by the Secretary."

Associate Justice David Souter, writing in dissent, said, "Greater care is required to assure that the political process can practically respond to limit the compulsion Jefferson inveighed against." Government, he wrote, has "masked" its role in producing the advertising messages, and that many of the ads "include the tag line, 'Funded by America's Beef Producers,' which all but ensures that no one reading them will suspect that the message comes from the National Government."

Scalia, in his opinion, noted that the Court has protected the right of individuals to refuse to fund private speech with which they disagreed, but the Beef Checkoff consists of government speech, and support of such speech can be compelled. The decision, however, left the losers, mainly the Livestock Marketing Association, the option of objecting to the Checkoff on other than First Amendment grounds.

The LMA, however, said in a statement that while it was bitterly disappointed in the outcome, "we respect the legal system and the Court's deliberations in this case, and we reluctantly accept their decision and will move on from here." LMA President Randy Patterson called on CBB to give producers the right, through a national referendum, to decide which activities the Checkoff should fund or whether the Checkoff should be continued at all."

[Surely Mr. Patterson knows that the only legal means to have a referendum is to get a mere 10% of cattle producers to sign a petition, which LMA failed to achieve in their attempt. Just as surely, he must understand that some LMA leaders used this as a vendetta against NCBA as Mr. Schumacher alluded to when he stated "we had to go after the checkoff to stop NCBA". When that sort of activity stops and LMA demonstrates willingness to go on with life and honestly work together, it may be possible to heal the breaches they created. MRJ]

"We hope they will try to become more inclusive of differing views, and make sure that producers large and small, and from every sector, have a greater voice in Checkoff affairs," Patterson said.

Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns, the object of the lawsuit, said in a statement, "This is certainly a win for the many producers who recognize the power of pooled resources. As this administration has always contended, USDA regards such programs, when properly administered, as effective tools for market enhancement."

O'Brien, for his part, noted that the Checkoff has accomplished a great deal in its 19-year history. Among the high points, he said, are the research that pointed out the necessity of beef in a healthy diet, development of convenient beef products that can be cooked in five minutes, identification of new muscles from the chuck and round that have both raised demand for beef some 25 percent in the last seven years and added $250 to the value of a head of cattle at slaughter. "All together, our activities have increased return on investment for cattlemen everywhere," he said.
 
Oldtimer said:
From some of the comments I'm seeing on other websites they may need to do a lot of improving in order to satisfy those paying it.... A poll on Agri-talk asked if you approved of the Supreme Court Decision--With 77 votes--It was running 60%NO---39% YES---1% NOT SURE.....

[The polls taken about every six months over past years showing consistently high approval ratings (73% most recently) by cattle producers were "cold", with no advance notice, and on a random basis. The Agri-Talk polls necessarily have an audience primed by hearing interviews on the previous shows. Those fighting the checkoff also are probably not immune to "prompting" people to make calls to serve a particular agenda, judging by past performance, such as giving away chances on new boots to gain names for their petitions. MRJ]


LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
Cattlemen's Beef Board pledges to improve Checkoff in wake of Supreme Court win

by Pete Hisey on 5/24/2005 for Meatingplace.com




Jay O'Brien, vice chairman of the Cattlemen's Beef Board, said that now that the organization's controversial Beef Checkoff program has been ruled constitutional by six justices of the Supreme Court, CBB "will work with all affected organizations to improve the Checkoff. The best way (the complainants) can address their concerns is to work with us." (See Supreme Court upholds Beef Checkoff, Meatingplace.com, May 23, 2005.)

In the majority's opinion, written by Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, the court held that the Checkoff was immune to "compelled-subsidy" and First Amendment attacks. "Because the Beef Checkoff funds the Government's own speech, it is not susceptible to a First Amendment compelled-subsidy challenge," the Court said. "Respondents argue that the speech here is not government speech because it is controlled by nongovernmental agencies, i.e., the Beef Board and Operating Committee. In fact, the message is effectively controlled by the Federal Government. Congress and the Secretary have set out the overarching message and have left the development of the remaining details to the Operating Committee, half of whose members are appointed by the Secretary and all of whom are subject to removal by the Secretary."

Associate Justice David Souter, writing in dissent, said, "Greater care is required to assure that the political process can practically respond to limit the compulsion Jefferson inveighed against." Government, he wrote, has "masked" its role in producing the advertising messages, and that many of the ads "include the tag line, 'Funded by America's Beef Producers,' which all but ensures that no one reading them will suspect that the message comes from the National Government."

Scalia, in his opinion, noted that the Court has protected the right of individuals to refuse to fund private speech with which they disagreed, but the Beef Checkoff consists of government speech, and support of such speech can be compelled. The decision, however, left the losers, mainly the Livestock Marketing Association, the option of objecting to the Checkoff on other than First Amendment grounds.

The LMA, however, said in a statement that while it was bitterly disappointed in the outcome, "we respect the legal system and the Court's deliberations in this case, and we reluctantly accept their decision and will move on from here." LMA President Randy Patterson called on CBB to give producers the right, through a national referendum, to decide which activities the Checkoff should fund or whether the Checkoff should be continued at all."

[Surely Mr. Patterson knows that the only legal means to have a referendum is to get a mere 10% of cattle producers to sign a petition, which LMA failed to achieve in their attempt. Just as surely, he must understand that some LMA leaders used this as a vendetta against NCBA as Mr. Schumacher alluded to when he stated "we had to go after the checkoff to stop NCBA". When that sort of activity stops and LMA demonstrates willingness to go on with life and honestly work together, it may be possible to heal the breaches they created. MRJ]

"We hope they will try to become more inclusive of differing views, and make sure that producers large and small, and from every sector, have a greater voice in Checkoff affairs," Patterson said.

Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns, the object of the lawsuit, said in a statement, "This is certainly a win for the many producers who recognize the power of pooled resources. As this administration has always contended, USDA regards such programs, when properly administered, as effective tools for market enhancement."

O'Brien, for his part, noted that the Checkoff has accomplished a great deal in its 19-year history. Among the high points, he said, are the research that pointed out the necessity of beef in a healthy diet, development of convenient beef products that can be cooked in five minutes, identification of new muscles from the chuck and round that have both raised demand for beef some 25 percent in the last seven years and added $250 to the value of a head of cattle at slaughter. "All together, our activities have increased return on investment for cattlemen everywhere," he said.
 

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