• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

chute help

J

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
5,962
Location
Western South Dakota
I was wondering if anyone else out there had noticed this.

A few years ago, I was helping a neighbor on branding day. We had the calves sorted off and were putting the cows down the chute and giving them their spring shots.

It was a short, wooden planked chute with a cat walk along side. There were three of us giving shots and keeping the line of cattle flowing, while there was one guy running the head catch. We very seldom stopped the flow of cows as the guy who was giving the shots was quick and good at the job. My job was to put the pipe in if the movement stopped or if any cows started to back up.

The third "helper" was wearing a white shirt and his job was to get any cow the other guy missed. He didn't have to do too much! I'm telling you, the other guy was real good!

Whenever the flow of cows stopped coming into the chute, I noticed that the feller in the white shirt would turn and face the corral coming into the chute, to see if and when the cows were coming. The incoming cows could see all of us plainly, if we didn't kind of crouch down.

I noticed that if the cows were almost to the point of coming into the chute, when this feller with the white shirt would turn to look back, the cows would stop. As long as we were facing towards the front of the chute or even kept our sides to them, and didn't look back, they would keep coming up the chute without giving much trouble to those who were bringing them in.

I mentioned to this feller, that this was happening, trying to get him to quit looking back. He laughed and thought that was a real funny observation on my part, and gave every indication, that he thought I was trying to pull a joke on him.

I told him that, no, I was telling the truth and that he ought to just patiently wait and not look back as when he looked back, it wasn't helping and was as a matter of fact, making things go slower. He just thought that was the funniest thing he'd ever heard.

What are you going to do? It wasn't my place and he is a rancher and sure seems to think he knows as much or more than anyone else, so I just let it go and wished he'd go help somewhere else.

I decided that maybe it made the cows nervous when they saw a person's eyes or face as it probably triggered their feelings of being a "prey animal"
where as we as humans are predators. Our eyes are on the front of our face and cows eyes are on the side.

Anyone else found this to be true or had similar experiences?

This is also one of the reasons(along with being real good at bending needles on vaccine guns) that I prefer to stay in back and help bring the cows up to the chute. With a good setup, I can be dang good help back there.

Oh, also, this guy in the white shirt, is one who when he wants the cow in the front of the chute to move, he will poke, prod and beat on the cow in the back of the chute, even if there might be 2 or 20 cows inbetween them.

Some people who run cows, sure puzzle me as to why they do and why they ain't better help. I guess they just don't understand cause and effect. :?
 
It is true JB about the eye contact.

Dad tries this when we are working bulls, I tell him it's all well and good but you need to keep your eyes open so the bulls don't run you over :lol:

The theory was tested by a guy that moved Caribou for the gov't. He did it on foot with 1 dog. I can't remember how far or how many he moved, but they couldn't get it done anyother way. He never made eye contact with the Caribou.

According to Silver they are stupid animals too...

I would think the white shirt would be pretty obvious to the cows too.
 
Jinglebob, my husband feels exactly as you do. It has a lot to do with eye contact. When he goes in to sort or to put cattle in the alley from a pen, he looks at the ground, never looks the cattle in the eye. He also would rather run the back and bring the cattle up as be anywhere else and for the same reasons you mentioned. (He can really bend those needles. He doesn't like being the one with the vaccine gun.)

He went to help someone a few years ago and was late getting there so they were working hard to get the cows in the alley and not having much luck. Jack told them to help at the chute and that he would bring the cows up. He really had them going through nicely. I'm sure you know that putting too many cows in at once causes all kinds of problems. If the a-pen holds 10, by golly they want to put 11, or at least 10. We have found in our situation 6 works really well. They just go right through. More than that, and you have to work hard to get them in the alley.

Anyway, this day he was helping the neighbor, at lunch time the fellows at the chute said, "What did you do, hypotnize those cows?" They had so much trouble and he had none at all. So that's where he likes to be.
 
I couldn't agree more on eye contact. Some will tell you it doesn't matter, but I have tried both looking down, and eye contact; facing right at them or turning a shoulder, and it does make a big difference. In the feedlot alley when the dog is bringing the cattle up, they won't come by easily if you stare at them, but averting your eyes or turning your head and shoulder away (assuming they are not wild and going to mow you over) and they will walk on by with no trouble. Turning the horse so you face the same way as the cattle, they will come on by easily as well.
 
The horseman friend of ours that I talk about quite frequently was telling us about sorting bucking horses in an arena. He said when he rode directly into those horses, they all just exploded out of there and went everywhere.

He gathered them back up to one end of the arena and BACKED the horse he was riding into them. He could look at a horse he wanted out and that horse would leave the bunch alone. He would ride after that one and put him where he wanted. He sorted all the horses using that method and it didn't make much dust.

When they gathered the Benny Bennion horses and needed good horse hands, he was one of the ones they called to help. He tells some very interesting stories about that.

And DJL, you are so right about the shoulder and eye thing. Horses respond to that as well.

Interesting that some of these so-called "Horse Whisperers" are now working for corporations to help them with human relation problems with their companies.
 
When a neighbor and I who both had good border collies, would go over to another neighbors to help him shear the sheep, we would stay in the back and move the sheep into the chute from the corral and then up to the sheering pen and alley. The only time we ever had any trouble, was when someone for up front would come back to "help" us! :wink: :lol:

Bud Boudroux (sp) came to this area quite a few years ago and he made his living training and trialing border colliies. He got quite a few of us started using border collies and a good dog just about ruins cowboys, as it's just too dang easy to get the dog and do it as saddle up and gather or move the cattle. The biggest secret with using border collies, is getting the cattle trained and learning to stay up in front and let the dogs bring the cattle. When you stop and think about it, it's way handier to be up front, opening gates and directing the cattle. You always get to ride point and never have to ride drag!

And IF your dogs and handler are good, you can move cow/calf pairs also. But they've got to be good and the cattle have to be used to dogs.

I've found that yearlings are inquisitive and I've moved quite a few by myself, just letting them follow me and the dog or just me and the horse, also.

One of the tricks that we learned working sheep, was to back into the bunch so they will try and run around you and go where you want them to go. I know if you crowd cattle, in most circumstances, it just makes a mess. Again, the fastest way to move cattle is slow. :wink:

Whe Bud would go to Wyo to help a ranch shear that ran about 90,000 head of sheep, they used big wide alleys and taught the dogs to go to the front of the alley, on the outside and jump in and walk back beside the sheep, on the inside of the alley. The sheep would hurry to get by the dog and thus would move forward.

It's almost impossible to get a sheep to move forward of it's own free will, unlerss it's the sheeps idea. If a team of horses could pull as much forward, as a sheep can push back against you, when trying to get it to go forward, that team could pull a mountain! :wink: :lol:

Yup, a cowboys can even learn a little from some sheep hearders. :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Speakng of Bud. He was raised around the track and running horses. He never had too much use for cowboys, or at least what passed for them where he came from. I taught him how to teach a horse or mule to step up alongside of you, when you are on a fence, or other easy to step up onto place, and then your mount will step up beside you, so it's easier to get on, especially when you have on muddy 5 buckles! Or are short. Or fat!

Bud was pretty impressed with this and taught his mules to do this. It takes about 15 minutes to teach this to a normal horse and I have no idea how long with a mule. But, Bud always said, I was the only cowboy who ever taught him anything! :lol:
 
We only put 5 -6 cows @ a time in the pen to vacc, etc. My 2 excellent Aussie dogs are now dead from old age and the diseases that come with that and I sure do miss them on days like that!!!

I have what we call a " Judas" cow...one that will follow you anywhere and that includes thru the chute. We take her through, do whatever she needs then place her in the lot , with a pan of feed right were the cows coming up thru the chute can see her. Well, they can't stand see her eat and not being in on the action, they prance right up to the headcatch, I catch them....we do the necessary to them...then they can go out for nice snack also.


Takes a bit more time which since I have a small herd is OK but is sure is a lot easier once we got this system worked out and having a bunch of jealous cows seems to help also!!!
 
I use a "lead steer" or cow instead of a "Judas". Same idea. Get one out in front that isn't concerned about anything that might spook any other cattle. It helps a lot with yearlings. Like so much of life, a brave leader can move lots of creatures. Us included!

We don't use them for the chute really, but to move from pasture to pasture.

The salebarn at Faith used to used to and maybe still does, use a judas goat to get the sheep to come into the ring. He makes a circle in front of the open door and then stands by the man in the ring and gets a treat. Works well and gets the sheep into the ring fast. They might even use one to get them to leave the ring, also. I haven't been to one of their sheep sales in a long time.
 
We're on the same page here!!!

I just moved my calvers in to the night-time lot using the famous " white bucket" trick and got mobbed!!! So ,right now as I nurse my stomped on foot ( from some cow-gal getting excited to get her treat) I'm not so sure " bucket cows" are such a great thing!!

OUCH!!! ...and it was foot the horse stomped and broke before!! It seems that foot is a magnet for critters to stomp on....never the left foot...NOOOOO...gotta get her on the right foot!!!

<<<she says grumbling and sniffling>>>
 
kolanuraven said:
We're on the same page here!!!

I just moved my calvers in to the night-time lot using the famous " white bucket" trick and got mobbed!!! So ,right now as I nurse my stomped on foot ( from some cow-gal getting excited to get her treat) I'm not so sure " bucket cows" are such a great thing!!

OUCH!!! ...and it was foot the horse stomped and broke before!! It seems that foot is a magnet for critters to stomp on....never the left foot...NOOOOO...gotta get her on the right foot!!!

<<<she says grumbling and sniffling>>>
Click to expand...

In the imortal words of the bartender when the drummer complained of the cowboys riding their horses into the bar and he getting his foot stomped on, "What the hell was you doin' in there afoot anyway!" :wink:
 
Ok..that's it. I'm gonna quit this frickin' cow biz!!

Just had to pull a HUGE calf out of a 1st calf heifer and just took a chunk of meat outta my index finger!!!! Got it caught somehow amongst the calf jack handle in all the commotion!!!!

Geeeezzzzzzz..I'm starting to feel like the human target today!!!
 
I dont' have anything to add so far as eye contact (as I've noticed the same also), but wanted to toss in on keeping them flowing through the alley.

Last year was the first time I got to work cattle like that. The lesser half usually catches them one by one...

But last spring at branding, we gathered and then he and a few guys sorted calves off cows while I, a friend of mine, and a couple other guys ran the cows through. One of the guys had worked on several feedlots so he was used to processing a lot of cattle at one time. Our 600 were no big deal.

And they weren't. Once we got set up, Shane kept them coming from the sorting pen, I poured, Corey vaxxed and Connie kept the vax guns filled and replaced the needles as Corey broke them. :lol:

But it went really quick. We did all of them in about three and a half hours!
 
kolanuraven said:
Ok..that's it. I'm gonna quit this frickin' cow biz!!

Just had to pull a HUGE calf out of a 1st calf heifer and just took a chunk of meat outta my index finger!!!! Got it caught somehow amongst the calf jack handle in all the commotion!!!!

Geeeezzzzzzz..I'm starting to feel like the human target today!!!
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear of your problem. Maybe if you had longhorn cattle you wouldn't have to pull the calves? :???:
















OK, OK It was a badly timed joke! You can quit throwing things at me now! :oops: :shock: :? :o :wink:
 
You all have some good true points about eye contact, or the lack thereof. The less, the better. Along those same lines, I have noticed that if you are sitting in a pickup waiting for a cow to have a calf, park the pickup sideways. The headlights look like eyes to a cow, and she is much more nervous and slow in having the calf, if the headlight "eyes" are looking right at her. :shock: :wink: :-)
 
Huh, good idea Soap. But then I pull the bulls at night so that all of my cows will calve during the day. Of course I really don't know when they calve anymore, as I just check them when I happen to be in the pasture! :wink:
 
Jinglebob said:
Huh, good idea Soap. But then I pull the bulls at night so that all of my cows will calve during the day. Of course I really don't know when they calve anymore, as I just check them when I happen to be in the pasture! :wink:
Click to expand...

I didn't say the headlights had to be "on". :wink: Even in the daytime, the headlights look like eyes to animals. For one thing, when a vehicle is in motion, the "eyes" are in the front.
 
Some very good points; whether working on foot, with dogs or mounted up it all comes down to POSITION when you want your stock to flow proper. We've all had the guy show up to help that resulted in slowing things down as bad as if half the crew had left! :mad: Proper corral setups that let your cattle work through in a natural flow really help as well and can really cut your manpower recquirements down.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Jinglebob said:
Oh, OK! Makes sense to me!
Click to expand...


Are you talking about Soaps truck eyes or being the guy that shows up and slows the work down? :wink:
Click to expand...

Weellll, they ground crew sure likes it when I ride in to drag the calves out, as they know they are going to get a rest! :wink:

But I was refering to the pickups "eyes".

I'm startin' to think maybe Haymaker had you figured out after all! :wink:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top