SJ
Well-known member
SH Your responses on the ranchers net have been widely circulated. I had a person call and ask me to convey some of his thoughts about your inaccuracies.
SH stated;-The majority have spoken and the majority want our wildlife resources protected from orpoachers which requires access to private land.
Response--You would have been more accurate if you had said a few or one for sure killed the bill. The GF&P website " Tony Dean outdoors" helped legislature by putting out untrue garbage about the landowners. GF&P will say it isn't their website and Tony Dean is just Tony Dean but GF&P writes to it. To this day GF&P has never cleared up the incident(that never happen) between Mark DeVries and John Cooper and neither has Mr. Dean. Mr. Dean came out with a fictitious "landowner road hunting bill" at an opportune time also and as usual GF&P never cleared that up either. In fact GF&P has never stood up for the landowner when untrue statements have been put out, by Dean or Newspapers, when these things were brought up at the working group meetings GF&P would say it wasn't there thinking but it must have been beneficial to them or you would have thought GF&P would have been man enough to set the record straight. I always thought GF&P was made up of three entities GF&P as management, the sportsman and the landowner with GF&P staying neutral during legislature but that was not the case when the open fields bill came to the house floor. They were out in numbers, I am sure no one was left to answer the phone. When GF&P couldn't get the job done the governors aides came out in force and when the aides couldn't get the job done the Governor had to come out and pull legislators off the floor and convince them to vote against it. It took the governor coming out to stop the bill against three landowners lobbying that day. It took a majority all right the majority of GF&P and the majority of the governors office and then the Governor himself to stop three landowners. You can twist actual events and mislead with the best, with Tony Dean being the best. Access has never been denied with probable cause or a WARRANT, CO's just need to communicate with the landowners instead of just coming on. After the bill failed Cooper came out and publicly said it was a slap in the face, with all that he has been doing to address the problem. I would like to say this; if I were to run my household or business as Cooper runs his department I would be in a world of hurt. He has been working on better communication for two years without any results. If I told my child or hired man that this is my house and it will be my way as long as you are in my house and then couldn't enforce it for two years it would be an out of control house hold. Who did you say spoke? What majority? It was a majority al right but not a majority of people it was a majority of POWER. Did you see the polls?
SH Stated;The world you envision..........
Conservation Officer to landowner: "Hello Mr. private property rights, I received a TIPS call that your son was out spotlighting the other night and may have shot a deer and left it lay. Considering the importance of your private property rights, I was wondering if you cared whether I drove on to your land to check your son if I happen to see him spotlighting again, PLEASE!" Mr. Private Property: "Why yes, most certainly, if my son is spotlighting and shooting deer, you have every right to drive out across my land and check my precious little deer poacher" Conservation: "Why thank you very much. I'll be sure to cut the back straps out for you"
Yup, that's the kind of wildlife law enforcement we need!
REsponse--That would be a start instead of there I can and you can't stop me attitude. Further more if they had a tip they have probable cause or they could get a WARRANT. One thing wonderful about TIPS program is that they can just dream it up, come on and never be questioned or have to reveal their source. I call it the "Think-up Invalid Probable-cause to Search program.
My envision--The world that is here and in effect as we speak…………….
South Dakota Landowner to Conservation Officer; Hello Mr. Invader of private property rights, the landowners of South Dakota have been following and watching you on your daily duties and found that you had been on private property without permission and for no apparent reason or probable cause. Since you are an agency that makes its own rules, with its own law enforcement that enforce these rules as law and your own internal investigative and justice dept., which contains its own judge and jury and penalty provider covered by HIPA, (if there is a complaint made against a GF&P employee). This leaves no one except the landowners of South Dakota to watch and make sure you are following your rules and not conducting illegal activity on private land. I was wondering if you would mind if I took your gun and placed you under citizen arrest for trespassing, until it could be decided by the justice system of the land instead of the GF&P justice system.
Mr. Invader of private property rights; why yes most certainly, if I am on your land for no reason or probable cause you have every right to arrest me and ask what I am doing or have been doing on your land without permission.
South Dakota Landowner; Why thank you very much. I'll take good care of you gun, flac jacket, pepper spray etc. until this matter is resolved.
SH stated;I know all about deer depredation. We finally had to put up a deer proof fence to save our second cutting alfalfa. The fence was supplied with sportsman's dollars.
Response--Most dollars that change hands, change ownership but not the sportsman's dollars. Everyone Urban and Rural person pays a depredation tax, so to say all fence supplied was sportsmen's dollars is far from the right. The landowners dollars lost (feeding, housing wildlife etc.) are never mentioned. The sportsman's dollar could never deer proof all landowners hay and other feed. Before the surcharge came into effect GF&P paid the CO and the trapper and when the surcharge was added, it now pays for CO and trapper. It was a great deception to both the landowner and the hunter. I know of no other circumstance where money spent it is still in the control of the spender.
1. GF&P couldn't begin to generate enough sportsman's dollars, to sustain wildlife or hunting in South Dakota if;
2. Landowner's didn't supply 80% of the feed and housing of wildlife and many other costs.
3. Landowner's didn't enjoy the wildlife.
SH stated---NO! The best bang for the livestock producers buck is to have a trapper and a pilot that work together BAR NONE. Each working seperately, will only be 50% as efficient and cost effective as they could be by working together
Response to SH---Nice picture but if you have a trapper unwilling and isn't required to do so and is never subject to losing his job or ending up in Court and made to stand accountable, he has no reason to get along, he doesn't have to and he doesn't want to and he doesn't need to. When complaints were made it seemed to me they are never addressed.. RY was written a letter, by GF&P, and told to get along but knew nothing would happen if he didn't and therefore he chose not to. Then he just made a point to get even and do what he could to get rid of the pilot knowing his job would never be in jeopardy. Maybe the pilot did some things wrong but he paid the price something the trapper has never and will never do with his agency being investigator and judge and jury.
SH stated---To just have a pilot flying helter skelter looking for coyotes in Nov. - Jan. is a waste of money unless actual killing is occuring.
Response--Is it really a waste of money getting the coyotes before they den and have pups in them or is the real reason because GF&P trappers like to trap when furs are prime in a state vehicle on state time with state traps and receive the money from the furs. GF&P trappers can compete with the Trappers of South Dakota with no personal expense. GF&P in general has lost a great amount of trust and it will take along time to regain it. They need to tell the whole truth when asked. They use scare tactics with people by talking of complaints or tips that are never produced. GF&P let you believe that para planes were downed because of complaints to FAA and GF&P had nothing to do with it, but when investigated GF&P was the only one to bring it to FAA. That is just one thing and there are many others.
SH states--Those same coyotes can be killed in those areas prior to denning by flying in Feb. through April once coyotes settle into their denning areas. I have seen predator districts burn up their funding flying winter "maintenance" and not having enough money to fly pre denning when it would have done far more good. There aren't enough state planes to come in a timely manner at that time of year to do the job effectively when coyotes are killing. The areas that are flown during prime fur season are filled back in by denning time. To fly an area during the peak of the immigration (prime fur season) then turn around and fly it again in two weeks and again in two weeks is a complete and total waste of money when you can fly it in Feb. through April once the coyotes that are going to be a problem get locked into their territories. That is when you get the most bang for your buck.
Response--What buck, they are sportsman's dollars remember. That's your opinion and that is all. Tell me why the losses in Harding County are one of the lowest?
SH stated---My sheep numbers are way down from what they used to be.
Question SH--Why are your sheep numbers down and could you give the names of these people who have cut numbers?
Sh states--If your contract pilot is controlling the numbers, why is he taking so many coyotes????? Hmmmm???? Sounds to me like your pilot is letting the coyote population get out of hand if he's taking so many.
REsponse---He has a large area.
SH states--Looks to me like the reason your trapper doesn't take as many coyotes as your pilot is because your trapper is obviously keeping the coyote numbers in check in the areas he is working.
Response--When I last checked RY's permission slips (12) I would hope the coyote numbers were in check in the area that he covers. I think just about anyone, professional or amateur, could keep that size an area in check. The money that Harding and Butte put in is certainly not getting much of a bang for their buck. Pretty high priced trapper doing very little for what the counties put in.You also stated once that no one could look you in the eye and tell you RY wasn't doing a good job either you only hear what you want or you haven't talked too many. I remember when he first came and we tried to get to know him and get along he asked us not to do anything with the small prairie dog town as he would keep it in check and he liked to trap on them, needless to say he never did either and never bothered to call and let us know. We could see it was growing and when we tried to call it seem he was never available. It also like he told another guy that was losing livestock, and the guy could never get hold of him so he called the pilot in and RY told him he would never come back because he called the pilot. I can also tell you other stories but you won't believe them and you will make excuses all landowners are wrong to question or ask why something is done the way it is. GF&P employees are above mistake and never found wrong because of their actions. If crossed they always have the tips program and the open fields to get even. They may not win in court but why should they care it isn't money out of their pocket but the landowner has to defend himself with his own hard earned money.RY will tell you he has always had current permission slips but that is not true, he doesn't always and doesn't need to and will never stand accountable or responsible for any thing he does. He has never grown beyond his adolescent years as far as attitude and will never have to.
You continue to bring up JJ but he has stood accountable and responsible paid his fine and will probably always be on the look out for the next sting brought on by the "untouchables" GF&P.
Landowners pay for the use of STATE LAND, which goes to the school fund, what does GF&P pay for their use of the STATE LAND? If GF&P did pay for their use would it be sportsmen's dollars only to be used for true-blue sportsman decided by sportsmen.
Now that I have really got your coyote dander up.
I'll leave you with one last thought.
When Chris Hesla was asked at a working group meeting what have hunters given up? His response was as follows: Hunters gave up the right to trespass on private land when legislature made all land automatically posted.
SH stated;-The majority have spoken and the majority want our wildlife resources protected from orpoachers which requires access to private land.
Response--You would have been more accurate if you had said a few or one for sure killed the bill. The GF&P website " Tony Dean outdoors" helped legislature by putting out untrue garbage about the landowners. GF&P will say it isn't their website and Tony Dean is just Tony Dean but GF&P writes to it. To this day GF&P has never cleared up the incident(that never happen) between Mark DeVries and John Cooper and neither has Mr. Dean. Mr. Dean came out with a fictitious "landowner road hunting bill" at an opportune time also and as usual GF&P never cleared that up either. In fact GF&P has never stood up for the landowner when untrue statements have been put out, by Dean or Newspapers, when these things were brought up at the working group meetings GF&P would say it wasn't there thinking but it must have been beneficial to them or you would have thought GF&P would have been man enough to set the record straight. I always thought GF&P was made up of three entities GF&P as management, the sportsman and the landowner with GF&P staying neutral during legislature but that was not the case when the open fields bill came to the house floor. They were out in numbers, I am sure no one was left to answer the phone. When GF&P couldn't get the job done the governors aides came out in force and when the aides couldn't get the job done the Governor had to come out and pull legislators off the floor and convince them to vote against it. It took the governor coming out to stop the bill against three landowners lobbying that day. It took a majority all right the majority of GF&P and the majority of the governors office and then the Governor himself to stop three landowners. You can twist actual events and mislead with the best, with Tony Dean being the best. Access has never been denied with probable cause or a WARRANT, CO's just need to communicate with the landowners instead of just coming on. After the bill failed Cooper came out and publicly said it was a slap in the face, with all that he has been doing to address the problem. I would like to say this; if I were to run my household or business as Cooper runs his department I would be in a world of hurt. He has been working on better communication for two years without any results. If I told my child or hired man that this is my house and it will be my way as long as you are in my house and then couldn't enforce it for two years it would be an out of control house hold. Who did you say spoke? What majority? It was a majority al right but not a majority of people it was a majority of POWER. Did you see the polls?
SH Stated;The world you envision..........
Conservation Officer to landowner: "Hello Mr. private property rights, I received a TIPS call that your son was out spotlighting the other night and may have shot a deer and left it lay. Considering the importance of your private property rights, I was wondering if you cared whether I drove on to your land to check your son if I happen to see him spotlighting again, PLEASE!" Mr. Private Property: "Why yes, most certainly, if my son is spotlighting and shooting deer, you have every right to drive out across my land and check my precious little deer poacher" Conservation: "Why thank you very much. I'll be sure to cut the back straps out for you"
Yup, that's the kind of wildlife law enforcement we need!
REsponse--That would be a start instead of there I can and you can't stop me attitude. Further more if they had a tip they have probable cause or they could get a WARRANT. One thing wonderful about TIPS program is that they can just dream it up, come on and never be questioned or have to reveal their source. I call it the "Think-up Invalid Probable-cause to Search program.
My envision--The world that is here and in effect as we speak…………….
South Dakota Landowner to Conservation Officer; Hello Mr. Invader of private property rights, the landowners of South Dakota have been following and watching you on your daily duties and found that you had been on private property without permission and for no apparent reason or probable cause. Since you are an agency that makes its own rules, with its own law enforcement that enforce these rules as law and your own internal investigative and justice dept., which contains its own judge and jury and penalty provider covered by HIPA, (if there is a complaint made against a GF&P employee). This leaves no one except the landowners of South Dakota to watch and make sure you are following your rules and not conducting illegal activity on private land. I was wondering if you would mind if I took your gun and placed you under citizen arrest for trespassing, until it could be decided by the justice system of the land instead of the GF&P justice system.
Mr. Invader of private property rights; why yes most certainly, if I am on your land for no reason or probable cause you have every right to arrest me and ask what I am doing or have been doing on your land without permission.
South Dakota Landowner; Why thank you very much. I'll take good care of you gun, flac jacket, pepper spray etc. until this matter is resolved.
SH stated;I know all about deer depredation. We finally had to put up a deer proof fence to save our second cutting alfalfa. The fence was supplied with sportsman's dollars.
Response--Most dollars that change hands, change ownership but not the sportsman's dollars. Everyone Urban and Rural person pays a depredation tax, so to say all fence supplied was sportsmen's dollars is far from the right. The landowners dollars lost (feeding, housing wildlife etc.) are never mentioned. The sportsman's dollar could never deer proof all landowners hay and other feed. Before the surcharge came into effect GF&P paid the CO and the trapper and when the surcharge was added, it now pays for CO and trapper. It was a great deception to both the landowner and the hunter. I know of no other circumstance where money spent it is still in the control of the spender.
1. GF&P couldn't begin to generate enough sportsman's dollars, to sustain wildlife or hunting in South Dakota if;
2. Landowner's didn't supply 80% of the feed and housing of wildlife and many other costs.
3. Landowner's didn't enjoy the wildlife.
SH stated---NO! The best bang for the livestock producers buck is to have a trapper and a pilot that work together BAR NONE. Each working seperately, will only be 50% as efficient and cost effective as they could be by working together
Response to SH---Nice picture but if you have a trapper unwilling and isn't required to do so and is never subject to losing his job or ending up in Court and made to stand accountable, he has no reason to get along, he doesn't have to and he doesn't want to and he doesn't need to. When complaints were made it seemed to me they are never addressed.. RY was written a letter, by GF&P, and told to get along but knew nothing would happen if he didn't and therefore he chose not to. Then he just made a point to get even and do what he could to get rid of the pilot knowing his job would never be in jeopardy. Maybe the pilot did some things wrong but he paid the price something the trapper has never and will never do with his agency being investigator and judge and jury.
SH stated---To just have a pilot flying helter skelter looking for coyotes in Nov. - Jan. is a waste of money unless actual killing is occuring.
Response--Is it really a waste of money getting the coyotes before they den and have pups in them or is the real reason because GF&P trappers like to trap when furs are prime in a state vehicle on state time with state traps and receive the money from the furs. GF&P trappers can compete with the Trappers of South Dakota with no personal expense. GF&P in general has lost a great amount of trust and it will take along time to regain it. They need to tell the whole truth when asked. They use scare tactics with people by talking of complaints or tips that are never produced. GF&P let you believe that para planes were downed because of complaints to FAA and GF&P had nothing to do with it, but when investigated GF&P was the only one to bring it to FAA. That is just one thing and there are many others.
SH states--Those same coyotes can be killed in those areas prior to denning by flying in Feb. through April once coyotes settle into their denning areas. I have seen predator districts burn up their funding flying winter "maintenance" and not having enough money to fly pre denning when it would have done far more good. There aren't enough state planes to come in a timely manner at that time of year to do the job effectively when coyotes are killing. The areas that are flown during prime fur season are filled back in by denning time. To fly an area during the peak of the immigration (prime fur season) then turn around and fly it again in two weeks and again in two weeks is a complete and total waste of money when you can fly it in Feb. through April once the coyotes that are going to be a problem get locked into their territories. That is when you get the most bang for your buck.
Response--What buck, they are sportsman's dollars remember. That's your opinion and that is all. Tell me why the losses in Harding County are one of the lowest?
SH stated---My sheep numbers are way down from what they used to be.
Question SH--Why are your sheep numbers down and could you give the names of these people who have cut numbers?
Sh states--If your contract pilot is controlling the numbers, why is he taking so many coyotes????? Hmmmm???? Sounds to me like your pilot is letting the coyote population get out of hand if he's taking so many.
REsponse---He has a large area.
SH states--Looks to me like the reason your trapper doesn't take as many coyotes as your pilot is because your trapper is obviously keeping the coyote numbers in check in the areas he is working.
Response--When I last checked RY's permission slips (12) I would hope the coyote numbers were in check in the area that he covers. I think just about anyone, professional or amateur, could keep that size an area in check. The money that Harding and Butte put in is certainly not getting much of a bang for their buck. Pretty high priced trapper doing very little for what the counties put in.You also stated once that no one could look you in the eye and tell you RY wasn't doing a good job either you only hear what you want or you haven't talked too many. I remember when he first came and we tried to get to know him and get along he asked us not to do anything with the small prairie dog town as he would keep it in check and he liked to trap on them, needless to say he never did either and never bothered to call and let us know. We could see it was growing and when we tried to call it seem he was never available. It also like he told another guy that was losing livestock, and the guy could never get hold of him so he called the pilot in and RY told him he would never come back because he called the pilot. I can also tell you other stories but you won't believe them and you will make excuses all landowners are wrong to question or ask why something is done the way it is. GF&P employees are above mistake and never found wrong because of their actions. If crossed they always have the tips program and the open fields to get even. They may not win in court but why should they care it isn't money out of their pocket but the landowner has to defend himself with his own hard earned money.RY will tell you he has always had current permission slips but that is not true, he doesn't always and doesn't need to and will never stand accountable or responsible for any thing he does. He has never grown beyond his adolescent years as far as attitude and will never have to.
You continue to bring up JJ but he has stood accountable and responsible paid his fine and will probably always be on the look out for the next sting brought on by the "untouchables" GF&P.
Landowners pay for the use of STATE LAND, which goes to the school fund, what does GF&P pay for their use of the STATE LAND? If GF&P did pay for their use would it be sportsmen's dollars only to be used for true-blue sportsman decided by sportsmen.
Now that I have really got your coyote dander up.
I'll leave you with one last thought.
When Chris Hesla was asked at a working group meeting what have hunters given up? His response was as follows: Hunters gave up the right to trespass on private land when legislature made all land automatically posted.