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Commodity Deflation

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Brad S

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Oil is down 66% from the high - about the same as iron ore. All the industrial metals are similarly down. Grains are off a mere 50% more or less (wanna buy some $15,000 per acre corn ground now?) Fed beef ($180 - $120) is only down 33%. Even lumber and coffee are down. Pretty much an exhaustive list. Commodities are down, and down sharply. Some blame economic trends in China - slow boat freighters explain more than the Chinese ever will. Others have been warning all the QE helicopter money allows over production, then deflation. AND, we haven't even seen the inevitable sell off on Wall Street. I thought I'd post some thoughts from zero hedge on the matter:



On Saturday we once again explored the question of whether central banks are creating deflation. The idea that post-crisis DM monetary policy may be causing disinflationary pressures to build is somewhat counterintuitive on its face but in fact makes quite a lot of sense. Here's how we explained it:

The premise is simple. By keeping rates artificially suppressed, the central banks of the world effectively make it impossible for the market to purge itself of inefficient actors and loss-making enterprises. As a result, otherwise insolvent companies are permitted to remain operational, contributing to oversupply and making it difficult for the market to reach equilibrium. The textbook example of this dynamic is the highly leveraged US shale complex which, by virtue of both artificially low borrowing costs and the Fed-driven hunt for yield, has retained access to capital markets in the midst of the oil slump and has thus continued to drill contributing to the very same price declines that put the entire space in jeopardy in the first place.
Expanding upon that a bit, we might say this: those who have access to easy money overproduce but unfortunately, they do not witness a comparable increase in demand from those to whom the direct benefits of ultra accommodative policies do not immediately accrue. Meanwhile, as WSJ notes, governments are reluctant to spend in the face of heavy debt burdens and increased scrutiny on fiscal policy in the wake of the European debt crisis while China, that all important source of voracious demand, is in the midst of executing the dreaded "hard landing." Here's more:

The global economy is awash as never before in commodities like oil, cotton and iron ore, but also with capital and labor—a glut that presents several challenges as policy makers struggle to stoke demand.

"What we're looking at is a low-growth, low-inflation, low-rate environment," said Megan Greene, chief economist of John Hancock Asset Management, who added that the global economy could spend the next decade "working this off."

The current state of plenty is confounding on many fronts. The surfeit of commodities depresses prices and stokes concerns of deflation…

Meanwhile, public indebtedness in the U.S., Japan and Europe limits governments' capacity to fuel growth through public expenditure. That leaves central banks to supply economies with as much liquidity as possible, even though recent rounds of easing haven't returned these economies anywhere close to their previous growth paths.

"The classic notion is that you cannot have a condition of oversupply," said Daniel Alpert,an investment banker and author of a book, "The Age of Oversupply," on what all this abundance means. "The science of economics is all based on shortages."
But as we first highlighted early last month, signs that continued access to capital markets were triggering overproduction and oversupply in the oil market were readily apparent, as the US looks set to run out of oil storage capacity in just a few months' time.

At Cushing, Okla., one of the biggest oil-storage hubs in the U.S., crude oil is filling tanks to the brim. Last week, crude-oil inventories in the U.S. rose to 489 million barrels, an all-time high in records going back to 1982.
And it's not just oil:

Around the world, about 110 million bales of cotton are estimated to be sitting idle at textile mills or state warehouses at the end of this season, a record high since 1973 when the U.S. began to publish data on cotton stockpiles.

Huge surpluses are also seen in many finished-goods markets as the glut moves down the supply chain. In February, total inventories of manufactured durable goods in the U.S. rose to $413 billion, the highest level since 1992 when the Census Bureau began to publish the data.
 
Well the last I checked new steel hadn't wiggled in price from last spring if anything it crept up a bit. Needless to say the shop is pretty quiet.
 
Denny said:
Well the last I checked new steel hadn't wiggled in price from last spring if anything it crept up a bit. Needless to say the shop is pretty quiet.

I think you need to find a new supplier if your price is higher. Last January we got 4x8x 11 ga sheet metal to make feed bunks cost $77. Just ordered more this week cost $56 if took 200 sheets was $36. This isn't a big time supplier but delivers every Monday and only has like a $150 minimum.
 
I made a point to look at beef prices today at the grocery store. There's no reflection of current cattle prices in the retail meat case. I was disappointed to see the high prices. Retailers aren't doing their part.
 
3 M L & C said:
Denny said:
Well the last I checked new steel hadn't wiggled in price from last spring if anything it crept up a bit. Needless to say the shop is pretty quiet.

I think you need to find a new supplier if your price is higher. Last January we got 4x8x 11 ga sheet metal to make feed bunks cost $77. Just ordered more this week cost $56 if took 200 sheets was $36. This isn't a big time supplier but delivers every Monday and only has like a $150 minimum.
They haven't dropped very much here either. Last week scrap metal was $10/ton. Bounced back to $30 this week. I've been told new steel is now being made from iron ore and natural gas since gas is so cheap therefore scrap isn't needed.
 
Brad S said:
Denny wrote:
Well the last I checked new steel hadn't wiggled in price from last spring if anything it crept up a bit. Needless to say the shop is pretty quiet.


I think you need to find a new supplier if your price is higher. Last January we got 4x8x 11 ga sheet metal to make feed bunks cost $77. Just ordered more this week cost $56 if took 200 sheets was $36. This isn't a big time supplier but delivers every Monday and only has like a $150 minimum.

11 gauge ought to make some stout bunks, are you double breaking a lip? at $36 for 8' you're getting them built for $5' or about $5 a cow. Nickel corn will buy a bunk pretty fast at $5/cow

I've double checked on these guys more times than I can count and they are always the same or a touch cheaper and they deliver to the shop door at that price.
 
These are bottomless with square tube skeleton. They are probably built twice too heavy but they should last longer anyway. I just used the sheet metal part as example on prices cause they stuck in my head. Cost about 25-30% less total than last year. Maybe we were just getting hosed before I don't know. :D
 
DejaVu said:
I made a point to look at beef prices today at the grocery store. There's no reflection of current cattle prices in the retail meat case. I was disappointed to see the high prices. Retailers aren't doing their part.

Maybe, maybe not.

I remember in the past hearing, "Consumers won't pay more than $--- for ground beef". I think the first time I heard it, we were $1.99. It has inched up every since. Then, the last few years, we saw people willing to pay above $6.00 per pound for the ground Beef.

Two things have contributed to this drop in prices. Tonnage and a strong dollar.

The shortcut to my point is that if consumers are still willing to pay the retail prices they were before September, we have a better chance of working back to higher prices than if they weren't.

One chart I open daily is the USDA Daily Cattle Summary. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lsddcbs.pdf

There's a few interesting things here. Despite "Cheap Corn", Carcass weights are doing their annual thing. They are dropping. This should be a positive regarding tonnage over the next few months.

The other thing is the weekly Choice cutout chart shows this years weekly average just dropped to the 5 year average. I personally look to that as a level of support. But, it shows another thing. This 5 year average includes the last two years. I feel it shows just how crazy high prices have been the last two years. I'll never forget the first time I got a check from Tyson foods where the payment was $2.50/Lb. I think we simply got used to crazy.

We can't do much about the Dollar. But, I think we have a little respite on the way with tonnage and the retailer still able to pull good prices.
 
Thanks for the 'lesson', PPRM. Marketing isn't my area of most interest, at least in part because everyone seems to get mad when they listen to the markets!!!

But, I do wonder what part the fact that the calves selling for dismal prices today (compared to recent past, of course) won't hit the market for quite some time.....or to put it in proper sequence, beef in the retail case probably sold as calves more than a year ago, didn't they? Back when prices we were getting for calves were pretty high, if not at the top. So, it seems reasonable to me that prices at retail lags current market prices by quite a bit of time. Or did I miss something in the equation? Opinions or educated answers welcome.

mrj
 
Retail prices tend to stay stable in spite of commodity prices. Sometimes retail will leverage an increase with rising commodity prices. that point, you'll see associated "News Stories" about the commodity. But generally, commodity prices stay stable.

Re the time lapse in calves. That price isn't following through to what the packers are paying feeders. The price we see today may be on this springs high calf market. But, it also reflects the loss the feeder had just a few weeks ago. This high calf price didn't carry through to all segments
 
DejaVu said:
I made a point to look at beef prices today at the grocery store. There's no reflection of current cattle prices in the retail meat case. I was disappointed to see the high prices. Retailers aren't doing their part.

Exactly....$4.50 ground beef and cull cows around 60 cents.......somebody is making some jingle...
 

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