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Cow wintering cost

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Sounds cheap to me for what hay is going for in most parts of the country. Those with cheap feed don't realize how much wintering costs are a part of life in some areas.
 
how far to get parts for haying? Bearing and hose, I can get in town only 11 miles. but most everything elses is Prsston Id around 100 miles, sometime Idaho Fall around the same.
 
3 M L & C said:
Would a person not be better off stocking more animals and feeding them some? I understand open winter, my uncle lives in southern oklahoma and is always blowing about it. But if you have enough grass for all year then couldn't you have twice the cattle in the summer. I don't know maybe my view would be different if I have never been crack deep in snow.

Short answer: NO Its easier and cheaper to carry over grass on a good year than liquidate cattle in a drouthy year. Cost of carrying a cow is more predictable when using grass vs: hay. Just my idea.
 
I understand it is cheaper per cow. Its not how much you spend its how much you make. Most people in the northern half of the US only have their cattle on grass for 5 to 6 months then hit stalks and feed them. I was just saying if a person did this could you not in theary have twice as many cattle on the same acres. Cause the grass they would be grazing in the winter would have got a lot more use in the summer. Letting the grass just set there to me is kind of like leaving my corn stand in the field until the cows need it then let them go get it. Unless the grass stays green all year long witch I don't think it does.
 
We wouldn't dare do that, in case of drought, like we have now. In this
country it takes grass to make grass. If we ate it all down every year, this
year there would be NOTHING there for the cattle to eat. Left over grass
stops snow and holds moisture. No leftover grass, the snow just blows on by...
it's so different between here and Texas. I've heard that in Texas you
don't need to change pastures, different grass grows under the cows
at different times. Is that true?

Some ranchers are fortunate enough to have what they call "a winter
pasture" that is not grazed all year long, til the cows go in during the
winter or even the spring. Anything that is standing can be used as filler
and can enable the northern rancher to cut down on the hay that he feeds.
Or some just feed some protein with that old grass in the form of
'cake' and it works quite well as long as it is a good product and the
cows get enough of it. Alfalfa hay, especially second cutting is a great
winter supplement and not so good as a full feed. It goes through the
cows awfully fast and grass hay takes longer to digest and keeps the cows
warmer. Mixing grass hay and alfalfa works really well as does mixing
standing forage and alfalfa hay.

Pasture rotation is used in some form by just about all northern ranchers.
We have to take care of the grass! When a pasture is overgrazed,
the less desirables come in like cactus, weeds, poorer quality grass like
cheat grass and soon you don't have desireables that the cows gain well on.

I think the Candians might be better about taking care of their grass than even we are...
 
If you had the cattle on there half as long that's not overgrazing. I would probably do it like they do if I could, I'm just saying thats not the only way. This year with the harvest going to be so early our cattle will be on stalks by labor day. One person tried to do this around here, graze grass all year. We had a huge ice-snow storm in November. All that grass that was out there the cattle couldn't eat it had 3/4 inch of ice on it plus the snow. The ground never did get all the way cleared off all winter. That grass wasn't worth much by the time spring came around and everything started growing again.
 
3 M L & C said:
If you had the cattle on there half as long that's not overgrazing. I would probably do it like they do if I could, I'm just saying thats not the only way. This year with the harvest going to be so early our cattle will be on stalks by labor day. One person tried to do this around here, graze grass all year. We had a huge ice-snow storm in November. All that grass that was out there the cattle couldn't eat it had 3/4 inch of ice on it plus the snow. The ground never did get all the way cleared off all winter. That grass wasn't worth much by the time spring came around and everything started growing again.

It probably wasn't worth much in the winter either.

We tested some grass for a customer that runs yearlings. He was wanting
to turn them out last fall with some protein supplement. That grass
tested 2-4%. We advised him to wait til spring when some green was
coming in that old grass; he could confine them now and feed them
and then turn out earlier in the sping. The grass was so low in protein
the cattle would have most likely gone backwards. He waited til this
sprng and turned out early and got along great.
 
My point exactly. Its worth a lot more when its still green. You might even say you could hay it and pay for the cost with how much better quality the grass would be.
 
The way I look at it is the less a cows feed come into contact with iron before you feed it is almost always the cheapest way to feed cows
 
Larrry said:
The way I look at it is the less a cows feed come into contact with iron before you feed it is almost always the cheapest way to feed cows

If the grass has the same value all year yes. But how much more valuable it the grass when its green or put up hayed at the right time than in winter when it's 2-4% like FH says. Everyone has this theory that less work equalls more profit. That's not always the case less work does equall less cost, but like I said earlier its not how much you spend or save its how much you make. Profit would probably be a better word, but I did say make earlier.
 
3 M L & C said:
Larrry said:
The way I look at it is the less a cows feed come into contact with iron before you feed it is almost always the cheapest way to feed cows

If the grass has the same value all year yes. But how much more valuable it the grass when its green or put up hayed at the right time than in winter when it's 2-4% like FH says. Everyone has this theory that less work equalls more profit. That's not always the case less work does equall less cost, but like I said earlier its not how much you spend or save its how much you make. Profit would probably be a better word, but I did say make earlier.

You can sacrifice some quality for what it costs to put it up. I am in no way saying that you shouldn't put out feed and always rely on grazing.
But when you figure swathing,baling, stacking and then feeding the hay you have racked up a pretty good bill.
The poblem with it all is that each years weather patterns are different and each years cost of hay can be different.
 
A different way to look at things.

Land cost is the thing that all the free thinkers that try to SAVE the profit from a cow don't figure, probally because it is paid for. Between what I am buying ad what I lease I pay $12.99 per acre per year. If I push my place and run at max stocking rate(20 acres per cow) that adds up to $259.80 per cow for land. There are several people around here who do the no labor-no hay-no expense route. They all figure 35 acres to graze year round and have grass through the snow and just the fact that you have to KNOW you can get through if your plan is to spend nothing. That 35 acre figure adds up to $454.65 per cow. That figures up to $195 difference per head to run at max capacity. I spend a little more than some on wintering but that is the reason. This year it will cost $2.35 per day for 160 days. That is figuring the hay I put up last year and carried over at this years price. If I only figure what I have into the hay it cost me $1.56 per head per day.

After reading that you all know what is meant by the old saying
"Figures don't lie but liars figure"
 
Doug Thorson said:
A different way to look at things.

Land cost is the thing that all the free thinkers that try to SAVE the profit from a cow don't figure, probally because it is paid for. Between what I am buying ad what I lease I pay $12.99 per acre per year. If I push my place and run at max stocking rate(20 acres per cow) that adds up to $259.80 per cow for land. There are several people around here who do the no labor-no hay-no expense route. They all figure 35 acres to graze year round and have grass through the snow and just the fact that you have to KNOW you can get through if your plan is to spend nothing. That 35 acre figure adds up to $454.65 per cow. That figures up to $195 difference per head to run at max capacity. I spend a little more than some on wintering but that is the reason. This year it will cost $2.35 per day for 160 days. That is figuring the hay I put up last year and carried over at this years price. If I only figure what I have into the hay it cost me $1.56 per head per day.




After reading that you all know what is meant by the old saying
"Figures don't lie but liars figure"

Good point.
And a low-cost producer is not a NO COST producer. :D
 
Doug Thorson said:
A different way to look at things.

Land cost is the thing that all the free thinkers that try to SAVE the profit from a cow don't figure, probally because it is paid for. Between what I am buying ad what I lease I pay $12.99 per acre per year. If I push my place and run at max stocking rate(20 acres per cow) that adds up to $259.80 per cow for land. There are several people around here who do the no labor-no hay-no expense route. They all figure 35 acres to graze year round and have grass through the snow and just the fact that you have to KNOW you can get through if your plan is to spend nothing. That 35 acre figure adds up to $454.65 per cow. That figures up to $195 difference per head to run at max capacity. I spend a little more than some on wintering but that is the reason. This year it will cost $2.35 per day for 160 days. That is figuring the hay I put up last year and carried over at this years price. If I only figure what I have into the hay it cost me $1.56 per head per day.

After reading that you all know what is meant by the old saying
"Figures don't lie but liars figure"

Similer to the point I was trying to make about carring capacity of the two different methods. I didn't do as good of job explaining though.
 
A person needs to look at their land cost. If you can't get a return on the land why bother. What could you rent it for is a good figure to start at
 
A person needs to look at their land cost. If you can't get a return on the land why bother. What could you rent it for is a good figure to start at

If I started there I would just quit and rent it out. They are paying high for grassland to break around here. I could easily sell the cows, pay down as much as I could, rent the ground out, put $75,000 in my pocket every year after the payments I would still have and still run 50-60 cows in the draws and other unfarmable ground. I must like work because that seems like a good deal but I think I would be sad every day seeing my land farmed.
 
Doug Thorson said:
A person needs to look at their land cost. If you can't get a return on the land why bother. What could you rent it for is a good figure to start at

If I started there I would just quit and rent it out. They are paying high for grassland to break around here. I could easily sell the cows, pay down as much as I could, rent the ground out, put $75,000 in my pocket every year after the payments I would still have and still run 50-60 cows in the draws and other unfarmable ground. I must like work because that seems like a good deal but I think I would be sad every day seeing my land farmed.

I think a lot of us understand quite well what you are saying. Cows don't make sense here on our land at all anymore but there are still a few kicking around.
 
Larrry said:
A person needs to look at their land cost. If you can't get a return on the land why bother. What could you rent it for is a good figure to start at

That seems like a bankers line for a ballance sheet. If your ground is paid for and you love what you do and arn't going bacwards in the money department. Who's to say that your property tax is the only return you have to make towards your land.
 

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