Cows and cowboys

[Julie]

In another thread it was "discussed" about the differences in cowboys in different parts of the country. As in most occupations --it seems there is a bravado attached to "where you are from" making it some sort of resume attribute that is supposed to mean how good you are at what you do.

I often hear (read) farmers on other boards "sporting" about the color of the iron they own and how one will make you a better a farmer than the other. We adults know that we are all people and a zip code does not ascertain quality.

I realize that particular thread was more about manners, respect and attitude that I won't revive here but for the sake of a good discussion I'll make this clinical. I've been across the cattle guard enough times and even a number of state lines to know there are good people, good cowboys and good cattlemen in EVERY state --But for the sake of of the odds, lets look at some numbers.

On the theory that where you have more cattle, you have more cowmen/cowboys and I'm not saying because you have quantity you have better quality, I'm just saying, it is a possible source of " justified reason" for the brag It also shows how geography --both the size and the stocking rate of the country plays into the factors.

Beef Facts from the 2007 Cattle Feeders Annual list the total number of cattle/calves by state from January 1, 2007 --Texas topped the list with 14 million. Kansas and Nebraska followed with over 6 million and then California and Oklahoma with over 5 million. Iowa, South Dakota and Wisconsin (now THAT was a surprise to me!) had just under 4 million.Colorado, Idaho, Kentucky Minnesota, Montana, and Tennessee fall in the 2-3 million bracket.

And below that at the 1-2 million is those Cowboy states of Wyoming, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, Washington, Florida and a good number of states one doesn't usually don't associate with "cowboy" (no offense!) in the same bracket such as Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. All the rest fall under 1 million head including Arizona, Utah and Nevada.

I draw no conclusions from this -- only throwing out the stats for discussion...I think they show a lot about stocking rates, close proximity to the grainlands and population encroachments on rangleands.

I also thought the number of feed yards in 2006 was an interesting list. Nebraska had 770, while Texas only had 130. Kansas had 205, Colorado 138, Iowa 335, and South Dakota 168.

 

[Soapweed]

Just for conversation's sake: :wink:

Nebraska has the Top Cow Counties in the Nation

Nebraska has the top three beef cow counties in the U.S., including the nation's No. 1 cow county - Cherry County, with nearly 170,000 cows. Holt County is No. 2 (113,000) and Custer County is No. 3 (101,000). Also in the top 20 counties in the nation are Lincoln County at No. 10 (74,000) and Sheridan County at No. 18 (68,000).

Sources: United States Department of Agriculture-Census of Agriculture,

National Cattleman's Beef Association, 1997-98 Nebraska Agricultural Statistics

 

[jigs]

Just for conversation's sake: :wink:

Nebraska has the Top Cow Counties in the Nation

Cherry County, with nearly 170,000 cows.

soap, I know you are a big operator, so who has the other 70,000 cows? :wink:

 

[azcowpuncher]

Yeah Nevada Utah Arizona you have to have alot of country to run one cow , if you looked at the average size ranch in them three states i am sure its at least 3 times the size of the places you have back east . We dont get rain like the rest of the country so we dont have grass belly deep . Although i find it kinda hard to belive that Nevada came in with Arizona cause they have alot more open country than we do . Places like texas i think their biggest ranch over there isnt even a million acres , the waggoners is like 520 thousand acres , the king ranch is only 625 thousand acres, thats not that big of a ranch at all but were we have a ranch in arizona that big we can only run 8 or 9 thousand head they can run 14 thousand cause they get some rain , here in Arizona we might not see a drop of rain for over a year sometimes , maybe a little snow in the winter once in a while but its all few and far between . Nevada i think is the same way besides the northern part of the state i know they get snow i have lived ina teepee up there in it ha ha . But another thing you have to think of is you have a 10 section pasture back east like texas and oklahoma and places like that and you have a thousand head in there its easy to gather get all your friends and family and stuff is hard to miss . But you get out west In Nevada Arizona or Utah and you have maybe 900 cows in a 100 section pasture and then you gotta hunt for them not everywere you ride in that pasture is gonna be a cow standin there .

Now is that cow calf ranches or just beef in general . Cause i know some of those desert outfitts here in Arizona in the winter time will pasture anywere from 25 thousand to 50 thousand head on one big ranch until spring , and there is a bunch of them ranches down there, so that must just be cow calf ranches . If we got more rain like you guys do back east we could run more cows but we work with what we got ya know ha ha , a small ranch here runs 600 head year round thats considerd a small ranch , here in Arizona they say anything less that 500 head and your losin money thats here in the state i am not speaking for other states . But our ranches are bein ate up by housing and stuff like that so it wont be long and there will only be a few big ranches left in Arizona but thats life i guess , we still have alot of little places all over the state but they are bein forced out little at a time .

 

[Terry Brown]

. . im not sure that numbers purely can be read as being cowboy or not. . . hell how many of those numbers when they are dense counties are cattle standing in feed lots? I think if you wish to discuss cowboy qualities look to cow calf operations. . . we handle our cattle, raise them and take a great deal of care and pride in the quality of our calves- and how we raise them up and their eventually status as high quality breeding stock. . . .cowboy skills come to the top and are clearly seen in a good cow calf operation of most any size. . . im not demeaning feed lot operators but just how many cowboy skills are present in a feed lot? please educate me if i dont see it.

 

[Doug Thorson]

It is all about how much country it takes to run a cow. I would have a hard time calling someone a cowboy if they didn't have at least a couple sections of land. Where I live that would still only give you 60 cows but you get into MN or even Eastern SD you would run close to a thousand on a couple sections. I have heard AZ figures 2-4 cows per section.

 

[Terry Brown]

well hell then- i guess im not cowboy then even tho im a third generation raising longhorned cattle from south dakota, kansas, texas with a detour to ohio. . . . our ground will support a cow calf on 3 acres easily. . . we run on about a section and support 200 bearing moma cows raising great calves. . . . but by your tough western south dakota standards we dont measure up!

 

[Terry Brown]

well hell then- i guess im not cowboy then even tho im a third generation raising longhorned cattle from south dakota, kansas, texas with a detour to ohio. . . . our ground will support a cow calf on 3 acres easily. . . we run on about a section and support 200 bearing moma cows raising great calves. . . . but by your tough western south dakota standards we dont measure up!

 

[RRoss]

. . im not sure that numbers purely can be read as being cowboy or not. . . hell how many of those numbers when they are dense counties are cattle standing in feed lots? I think if you wish to discuss cowboy qualities look to cow calf operations. . . we handle our cattle, raise them and take a great deal of care and pride in the quality of our calves- and how we raise them up and their eventually status as high quality breeding stock. . . .cowboy skills come to the top and are clearly seen in a good cow calf operation of most any size. . . im not demeaning feed lot operators but just how many cowboy skills are present in a feed lot? please educate me if i dont see it.

Maybe one needs to ask......"Whats the difference between a cowboy and a stockman?

 

[IL Rancher]

Well heck, I was always told a cowboy works for a stockman or a rancher and being a "cowboy" around here isn't necesarily a term of endearment, lol.. Can be, don't get me wrong but depending on which of the locals is saying it their meaning could be entirely different.... Could be wreckless or could be the right guy for a job, all depends on the situation to the folks around here.. I'll leave out some of the other descriptions that it could mean when it comes to some of the grain farmers :roll:

Shoot, on two sections of land we could run 1000 cows easy.. Hard to talk the boss into giving up that 200 bushel corn ground though with the rent that goes along with it these days :lol: :lol:

 

[azcowpuncher]

Yeah terry thats about what it is , i havent seen any sheets this year but sometimes its not even that on a bad year ha ha . Thats why we have such big ranches here ya know . I still cant belive Nevada came in the bottom half of that deal thats just crazy , it must have been a bad year for them too well you know i guess it was cause 2002 is when we had that bad drought and they were kickin us all off and Nevada was hit pretty hard too . Have they done another deal since then ? That would make sense why the numbers are so low .

 

[Jinglebob]

Bein' a cowboy is all about how you go about cetain jobs or which way you favor doing them.

There are only about so many ways to turn a cow.

Take a good hand from one part of the country and he'll probably get to be a good hand in another part.

Them fellers in the rocks can really get those of us flatlands stirred up when they talk about how they go about it.

Them brush hands would feel plumb naked in these parts.

We in this area need about 20 to 25 acres to run a cow calf pair, year arond, tho' there are areas real close where it takes twice as much just to summer one.

The only person it matters to as to whether some one is a cowboy or not, is that person. If the feller watching you shave in the mirror thinks he's a cowboy, fine by me. Usually it don't take long around one to find out if they are or arent and every section of country has a different way of identifying one and different idea's about what a good hand is and what a sorry one is.

It really don't matter to much except to yourself.

Some places, the word cowboy is a word used with pride and others it's a cuss word.

I prefer to live and hang around people who take pride in that word and worry if they mesure up to it's highest form of definition.



All of the above is just my personal opinion and like some things, we all have one.

 

[Goodpasture]

Bein' a cowboy is all about how you go about cetain jobs or which way you favor doing them.

If you add the pride a fella takes in his work, you have it all.

Some places, the word cowboy is a word used with pride and others it's a cuss word.

Someplaces they are used both ways in the same sentence.

 

[PPRM]

This that and the other thing.....Call me what you want, just don't call me late for Dinner....LOL...


I don't get too wrapped up in what I am and what I am not.....People compliment me on the things I am proudest of quite regularly....My Wife most of all....Then my cattle, my horses, my demeanor and especially the Beef I sell them..People compliment me on my manner and work ethic....


I may or may not make it on someones outfit, but everyplace I have ever worked, they have been sad when I decide to move on....

I prefer working cattle alone and actally doing most things alone. It seems most people I am around like to take shortcuts and get the job done. Yet, when I do it alone and they see the results later, they tend to rave....

As far as Feedlot cowboy skills, I worked in a 20,000 head feedlot for about three years and learned a ton. One of the guys was a 60 something fellow that had ridden some great cutting horse and worked on some big high desert Oregon/Nevada outfits...He taught me a lot as did several other guys....I learned more about recognizing sickness or ailments in catle there and still see things many folks don't. It is because i was around the numbers to see rare things a bit.....I don't know everything for sure, but the vets around here will take my word over the phone on a ton of things......I am as handy around a chute as anyone, and can read cattle pretty dang well........most of that comes from the better people I worked with at the feedlots...Those older guys could work anywhere. I also saw a lot of drifters i never wanted to work with again....

At the feedlots, you see a lot of guys come and go. I sometimes think the poorer hands like to have something that will get them thier next job, so they will say they hav buckarooed or are an accomplished feedlot cowboy...those that have never worked at bthe other see these untalented drifters and the label sticks...Well, the feedlot guys are wondering about how the hell a Buckaroo gets anything done based on the few castoffs that have to show up at the feedlot to find a job and the buckaroos wonder what the hell is up with feedlot cowboys based on a guy that landed a job but was actually ran off from the feedlot he was at....


Was that the Dinner Bell?

;-}

PPRM

 

[Anonymous]

Yadda Yadda Yadda...we all get the job done one way or the other, whether it's a Cowboy Outfit, or a Farmer-ized operation from hell...Lord knows I've seen my share of both...

...the biggest challenge facing all of us now is how in hell to convince the East Coast Weenies that Cow-Farts and Belches are NOT among the 'biggest' contributors to Global Warming...

It's all the hot air from useless 'Jabber-jawing' and hyper-active, pumped-and medicated MORONS blitzing up and down the interstates and neighborhood streets at Warp Nine-Point-Frickin'-Nine...with little or no recognition of just how much oil they're pumping through this economy...

 

[Terry Brown]

i just came in out of the heat so i may not be thinking right. . . lol . . . this forum is alot like that dumb song "if lovin you is wrong then i dont wanna be right" . . . . i guess i agree that the title is a bit hollow---specially when you are in the 100 degree heat and trying to catch a 4year old longhorn bull that has joined up with black cattle. . . i guess he likes a change of pace. . . he was smilin when i found him this afternoon. . . . all I know is that I called him alot of names this afternoon and none of them were cowboy. . . he may be contemplating some of those names tonight as well as he rests in his pen. . . . i think ill call him hamburger tomorrow. . .

 

[Denny]

It is all about how much country it takes to run a cow. I would have a hard time calling someone a cowboy if they didn't have at least a couple sections of land. Where I live that would still only give you 60 cows but you get into MN or even Eastern SD you would run close to a thousand on a couple sections. I have heard AZ figures 2-4 cows per section.

Here in Minnesota you would need to figure 10 acres per cow per year between pasture and hayground.If we could get rid of the trees and swamps it would be more like 6 acres per cow but you have to pay rent on every acre no matter how useless.Any top farmland is cropped here.

 

[Terry Brown]

so in arizona a cowboy is a guy with two sections of land and 4 cows?

 

[wdcook]

Hey Julie, What about those of us in the Show-Me state. If I'm not mistaken, we have more cows per acre than any other state and we are second to Texas in total number of beef cows.

 

[Julie]

Yep, Yep, yep...sorry....missed the mizzery count...

Mizzou has 4 1/2 million cattle (cattle and calves it says at the top of the page) on Jan. 1 2007. --but Kansas and Nebraska were second after Texas in this count --and still less than half of Texas' county.

Darn but I love stirring up a good discussion