littlejoe
Well-known member
jodywy said:
the difference between not enuf and 'toxic' ain't much. if you pull it out mechanically, the only one you're making feel better is you.
Cows not cleaning?!
- Thread starter WyomingRancher
- Start date
the difference between not enuf and 'toxic' ain't much. if you pull it out mechanically, the only one you're making feel better is you.
jodywy
Well-known member
program has worked great for me, cows clean, alot less scours, cows breed back fast, worked alot better then giving new born calves a Bo-Se shotlittlejoe said:
Faster horses
Well-known member
Cows eat mineral in peaks and valleys. When consumption is figured
it needs to be figured over a long period, like a year. Figuring
consumption for a day, week or month could drive you nuts.
So I don't think
if cows overeat selenium for a short while that it will hurt a thing. Anyhow
it doesn't in this area. This is interesting to me, and I am going to find
out more about the limiting of selenium. I know that ours has 26.4 ppm,
which is the limit. I did notice Aaron's had quite a bit more than that,
but the amount of selenium in his isn't set by the US government.
I have an inquiring mind...and I want to know more on this.
Thanks.
it needs to be figured over a long period, like a year. Figuring
consumption for a day, week or month could drive you nuts.
So I don't think
if cows overeat selenium for a short while that it will hurt a thing. Anyhow
it doesn't in this area. This is interesting to me, and I am going to find
out more about the limiting of selenium. I know that ours has 26.4 ppm,
which is the limit. I did notice Aaron's had quite a bit more than that,
but the amount of selenium in his isn't set by the US government.
I have an inquiring mind...and I want to know more on this.
Thanks.
gcreekrch
Well-known member
Faster horses said:
I forgot to bring a tag from our mineral in today. :roll:
Our min. has 125 ppm Selinium
Copper is 48-4900
Zinc is around 11,000
Calcium to Phos is about 3 to 1
Cows are eating it like crazy.
Selenium is toxic in higher doses and necessary in a high enough dose. There are areas of the country that have selenium toxicity just from the plants that grow that concentrate it in those areas. In our area, if you fed it in mineral and in the salt and injected the cows you were just getting close to the needed dose. Very Se deficient here. Yes, it has been proven to be associated with retained placentas, along with being the cause of white muscle disease in calves. Check with your local Ag guys or vet to see what kind of Se supplementation is needed in your area because you can't go why what someone else across the country does on this one!
littlejoe
Well-known member
gcreekrch said:
!! "Cows are eating it like crazy.[/quote]!!"
this is the rub with mineral. most of it tastes bad. the 'smorgasboard' deal, the 'cow knows what she needs' are both bull to me. you gotta put something in it to get her to eat it. then you gotta put something in it so she won't eat too much---
interest that when phos prices escalated (you bought any good stick matches lately?) that mineral co's decided you didn't need as much alla sudden.
gcreekrch
Well-known member
!!"littlejoe said:
this is the rub with mineral. most of it tastes bad. the 'smorgasboard' deal, the 'cow knows what she needs' are both bull to me. you gotta put something in it to get her to eat it. then you gotta put something in it so she won't eat too much---
interest that when phos prices escalated (you bought any good stick matches lately?) that mineral co's decided you didn't need as much alla sudden.[/quote]
Not really, our feed has 350% of what a cow needs in Phos and 125% needed in Calcium. Had to balance it somehow.
I find that our cattle will eat what they need and then back off. We were feeding a mineral for the general area (200 miles wide and 300 miles long) previous to getting our own mixed this year. There was little copper in it and this area is very high in Moly.
I look for them to level off in about 10 days, will let you know if I'm wrong. :wink:
Faster horses
Well-known member
Littlejoe, you are wrong on that one:
" when phos prices escalated (you bought any good stick matches lately?) that mineral co's decided you didn't need as much alla sudden."
I can't speak for others, but Vigortone is an industry leader
and has had a 2-1, 3-1, 6-1 cal to phos mineral since before
I was on board as a dealer and that was 1994. They've had a really
tough time early on convincing producers that high % phos in
a mineral wasn't necessary. The NRC book supported that fact.
We were promoting the 2-1 or 3-1 product when feed companies
were still using 15-12 or 12-12. Now I'm not saying that there
isn't exceptions where more phos is necessary, because there
are those few areas. I sell nor have I ever sold any thing other
than 2-1 or less and that's in 17 years of being a dealer. Our
6-1 formula works well in the spring when the
grass is high in phosphorus. We actually have a 0 phos mineral
that works great in feedlot situations where phos is supplied
by other forage.
Hope this helps.
" when phos prices escalated (you bought any good stick matches lately?) that mineral co's decided you didn't need as much alla sudden."
I can't speak for others, but Vigortone is an industry leader
and has had a 2-1, 3-1, 6-1 cal to phos mineral since before
I was on board as a dealer and that was 1994. They've had a really
tough time early on convincing producers that high % phos in
a mineral wasn't necessary. The NRC book supported that fact.
We were promoting the 2-1 or 3-1 product when feed companies
were still using 15-12 or 12-12. Now I'm not saying that there
isn't exceptions where more phos is necessary, because there
are those few areas. I sell nor have I ever sold any thing other
than 2-1 or less and that's in 17 years of being a dealer. Our
6-1 formula works well in the spring when the
grass is high in phosphorus. We actually have a 0 phos mineral
that works great in feedlot situations where phos is supplied
by other forage.
Hope this helps.
WyomingRancher
Well-known member
Jim and I removed/covered up as many needles as we could (previously covered in snow), and so far the latest cows to calve have all cleaned 
. I really think needles were the culprit since management was the same as the first bunch to calve. Recently needles have been exposed due to melting snow.
I've had more trouble than usual with pine needles this year, and I've always felt toxicity (isocupressic acid) increased during times of tree stress. Our previous wreck occurred during drought, but I think the current pine beetle outbreak is making these trees more toxic. I've contacted a researcher who I previously submitted samples to, and he believes I might be right. They want me to sample a bunch of trees to check for toxicity levels. The funny thing is toxicity can vary greatly on the same tree.
So I guess there will be a silver lining to 85% of this forest projected to be dead by 2013 :roll: :? .
. I really think needles were the culprit since management was the same as the first bunch to calve. Recently needles have been exposed due to melting snow. I've had more trouble than usual with pine needles this year, and I've always felt toxicity (isocupressic acid) increased during times of tree stress. Our previous wreck occurred during drought, but I think the current pine beetle outbreak is making these trees more toxic. I've contacted a researcher who I previously submitted samples to, and he believes I might be right. They want me to sample a bunch of trees to check for toxicity levels. The funny thing is toxicity can vary greatly on the same tree.
So I guess there will be a silver lining to 85% of this forest projected to be dead by 2013 :roll: :? .
Faster horses
Well-known member
Isn't it amazing that after all the research done on pine needle abortion,
that they really don't know the cause? It seems like once those
cows get started eating pine needles they become addicted to them.
A friend bought a ranch in E. Montana with a lot of pine trees; he
didn't know the problems they cause. Boy, did he have a wreck.
He ran his cows out, and they calved outside in big pastures with
nice pine trees for protection. (he thought).
They were out there roping cows in the freezing cold trying to clean
them or giving them shots to clean.
After that wreck, he hired fencers to come in and fence off the pine
trees. But then he didn't have much for protection.
that they really don't know the cause? It seems like once those
cows get started eating pine needles they become addicted to them.
A friend bought a ranch in E. Montana with a lot of pine trees; he
didn't know the problems they cause. Boy, did he have a wreck.
He ran his cows out, and they calved outside in big pastures with
nice pine trees for protection. (he thought).
They were out there roping cows in the freezing cold trying to clean
them or giving them shots to clean.
After that wreck, he hired fencers to come in and fence off the pine
trees. But then he didn't have much for protection.