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Custom wintering cows

L

LCP

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
240
Location
north central SD
I've got a whole pile of carryover hay, as well as a decent crop again this year. We run our cows on cornstalks and stockpiled grass as long as possible. Last winter was pretty dang close to not having to feed any hay, other than alfalfa for protein and a few bales during bad weather. So, I am figuring conservatively that I could winter 150-200 cows for 90 days and still have plenty for myself. I've got grass/alfalfa mix, slough grass (reed canary mostly), a little prairie hay, and some oats & peas (putting it up now, should be real nice hay). I don't want to sell the hay and export the nutrients - I'd rather sell the hay and sell my time, keeping the nutrients in the field. They would be run separately from my own cows, so biosecurity should be ok.

A few questions I need to answer:
What's a fair way to price the hay? Is it worth less since it is staying on the place?
What's fair yardage, considering I would probably be bale grazing a lot of it? I may need to use a bale processor on the rougher hay (never used one before, but would like to not have big dead spots in the field). Does any of this matter, or should it just be the "going rate" for yardage in a drylot?
If I'm bale grazing, waste would be higher than if I ground it and fed a TMR. I don't think it would be fair to sell the feed by the ton because of that. I'm thinking maybe weigh the cows on the truck, then figure expected consumption by body weight and charge accordingly. Ensure a certain level of nutrition by fecal samples and monitor BCS. Perhaps just figure a flat per-day fee based on body weight and average temperature? Or is there another fair way to price it?

I figure I should start looking for a customer now, while folks are putting up hay and maybe buying for winter. Figured if I wait until fall, many guys will already have their hay lined up and I'll be too late to talk them into the deal. :)

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.
 
Two things I would consider. First of all we haven't had a bad winter for a while and we are do for one. I mean the kind where you feed your cows from Nov. 15th on. Secondly I would price my hay by the ton as it is the fairest way to do it. And I will add, know who you are working with as there are plenty that don't pay for services rendered.
 
Well, if your say leasing ground you might be getting your winter needs lined up in May or June. I think unless its a yearly deal, most people don't buy hay until they need it, or just before the first of the year.

I know a bale processor will cost some money. If you do some looking around I bet your can find a good bale king or haybuster for 5-10K or maybe less. Cows will clean it up better & you will still have the manure. One guy in my area did the bale grazing. Made half bales, put on no twine. First year it worked awesome. Cows cleaned it up very well, with zero feeding cost. Second year all he had was a mess. Do what you want, but Id say in my example all the money he saved the first year was a double loss the second!
 
Amo said:
Well, if your say leasing ground you might be getting your winter needs lined up in May or June. I think unless its a yearly deal, most people don't buy hay until they need it, or just before the first of the year.

I know a bale processor will cost some money. If you do some looking around I bet your can find a good bale king or haybuster for 5-10K or maybe less. Cows will clean it up better & you will still have the manure. One guy in my area did the bale grazing. Made half bales, put on no twine. First year it worked awesome. Cows cleaned it up very well, with zero feeding cost. Second year all he had was a mess. Do what you want, but Id say in my example all the money he saved the first year was a double loss the second!
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I used to want a bale processor to tear the hay up before it hits the supreme mixer and mixes with silage. I used a roto cut baler a little. I was very impressed. Why not cut it while baling?

I am looking to have a guy winter my late spring calvers this year.
 
To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?
 
Amo said:
To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?
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I'm assuming you are talking to me.

NH certainly does. A good friend is the sales manager for a 8 or 9 store dealership. He confirmed they had the option when I was describing my Claas. I am pretty certain any company that also makes silage balers hs the option in its lineup.

It looks really good. I haven't fed enough to know how bug of a difference it makes and haven't run any through the Supreme yet.
 
I can see trucking to be a big factor for a short period like 90 days it better be a short haul.
 
PPRM said:
Amo said:
To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?
Click to expand...


I'm assuming you are talking to me.

NH certainly does. A good friend is the sales manager for a 8 or 9 store dealership. He confirmed they had the option when I was describing my Claas. I am pretty certain any company that also makes silage balers hs the option in its lineup.

It looks really good. I haven't fed enough to know how bug of a difference it makes and haven't run any through the Supreme yet.
Click to expand...

Yes, a silage baler would have them. A silage baler costs quite a bit more. Never priced one, just what Ive been told. Guess around this area where a very big amount of hay baled they aren't hardly around. Of course everyone has a processor or bale spinner to feed with.
 
Ok, so I'm thinking the bale processor is a good idea given the amount of old carryover hay I want to feed. We've got a local dealer that handles Haybusters. New ones cost about $20k, used are half that. I'm thinking used. They've got a 2650 that looks like it's seen a fair amount of use and a 2660 in nice shape. They also have a new 2665 Shortcut model. Is there any real big advantage to any of these models? I'd probably try to find a entry-level model to start with until I figure out what I really need.

I've got a NH T5.115 front wheel assist tractor, 105 HP. Is that enough to run a processor?
 
I ran a 2650 with a 7420 JD, lots of power. I run a Vermeer BPX9000 now. Very similar machines,do a good job of blowing out the dust and laying out a good windrow to feed. I like the hydraulic deflector.
 
I'd balk at spending a buncha $$ to help sell my hay.

I'd do some testing to know what I had, balance the ration and feed some bovatec with the mineral.

I've got an $800 haybuster processor I put 400$ worth of iron and welding into that works just fine---on the rare occasions I use it. Shouldn't be allowed near alfalfa or peas, for starters...if it's dusty or crappy hay, it does help.
 
I don't really have much good quality hay to sell. I think a lot of guys would be concerned if this hay wasn't run through a processor - we're talking 3-6 yr old hay, most of it slough grass. Knocking the dust and mold out would probably make it more marketable. I could justify charging $.30 a day yardage if I was doing something to make the hay a little more palatable I think. Being able to feed the hay back on my hay fields and not have big chunks of wasted hay plugging up my hydroswing is worth something too. Not a new $20,000 processor, but maybe a used $10,000 unit.
 
While I believe a processor is a good idea, I want to remind you that running hay through a processer will not change the quality. The cows will be able to eat more of it, but it won't contain any more nutrition. It is my hope, if you are going to winter some cows, that you will let a qualified person run a ration for you so that the cows requirements are being met. The cows will need a good mineral to go with the hay you feed, or you could be asking for problems. Old hay might have enough protein, but it will be lacking in vitamins and minerals. I know this from hay samples we have taken the past 22 years.

(We have fed a lot of hay with a bale processor and it wasn't always the best hay, but by feeding plenty of it and having free-choice mineral out constantly we got by fine. We did have a scale under the processor so we knew what the bales weighed. It is amazing the difference in bale weights.)

Good luck!
 
Faster horses said:
While I believe a processor is a good idea, I want to remind you that running hay through a processer will not change the quality. The cows will be able to eat more of it, but it won't contain any more nutrition. It is my hope, if you are going to winter some cows, that you will let a qualified person run a ration for you so that the cows requirements are being met. The cows will need a good mineral to go with the hay you feed, or you could be asking for problems. Old hay might have enough protein, but it will be lacking in vitamins and minerals. I know this from hay samples we have taken the past 22 years.

(We have fed a lot of hay with a bale processor and it wasn't always the best hay, but by feeding plenty of it and having free-choice mineral out constantly we got by fine. We did have a scale under the processor so we knew what the bales weighed. It is amazing the difference in bale weights.)

Good luck!
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I agree, and had planned on grabbing some forage samples and having our nutritionist lend his opinion. I figure it helps me avoid problems down the road if the customer is for some reason unhappy with something. At least I will have something documenting the forage quality and some expertise in formulating a ration.
 
LCP said:
Faster horses said:
While I believe a processor is a good idea, I want to remind you that running hay through a processer will not change the quality. The cows will be able to eat more of it, but it won't contain any more nutrition. It is my hope, if you are going to winter some cows, that you will let a qualified person run a ration for you so that the cows requirements are being met. The cows will need a good mineral to go with the hay you feed, or you could be asking for problems. Old hay might have enough protein, but it will be lacking in vitamins and minerals. I know this from hay samples we have taken the past 22 years.

(We have fed a lot of hay with a bale processor and it wasn't always the best hay, but by feeding plenty of it and having free-choice mineral out constantly we got by fine. We did have a scale under the processor so we knew what the bales weighed. It is amazing the difference in bale weights.)

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I agree, and had planned on grabbing some forage samples and having our nutritionist lend his opinion. I figure it helps me avoid problems down the road if the customer is for some reason unhappy with something. At least I will have something documenting the forage quality and some expertise in formulating a ration.
Click to expand...

Good plan. :nod:
 
littlejoe said:
I'd balk at spending a buncha $$ to help sell my hay.

I'd do some testing to know what I had, balance the ration and feed some bovatec with the mineral.

I've got an $800 haybuster processor I put 400$ worth of iron and welding into that works just fine---on the rare occasions I use it. Shouldn't be allowed near alfalfa or peas, for starters...if it's dusty or crappy hay, it does help.
Click to expand...

There is some truth to this. I had some slough hay last winter. I priced out grinding it. Then for a TMR, Id have to add some DDG or alfalfa or corn. Or pour liquid protein on it or what ever. I got luck, and found a feedlot that bought it. By the time I figured in my time plus extra imputs to make a critter eat it, I faired pretty good just selling it. On the flip side, every year is different. You might not get a good price out of it.....kinda sucks to bend over & hand them the soap! Plus you can use it for yourself besides using it to market your hay. As well as retaining your manure.

I have a bale king processor. I like it. The highline machines (either highline or the ones painted vermeer yellow) are respectable machines. Vermeer makes their own now. Highline has the option that supposedly makes it like a hay grinder, if you ever grind. Ive always felt its cheaper per ton to hire that done. Highline does have a cool machine that can feed 2 bales at the same time. Can set different rates that it "chews" the hay off. So say you can have alfalfa in the front and have it chew half as fast as the back bale. Maybe vice versa, I cant remember, but you could blend and feed all in one trip. Expensive & high hp machine. Haybuster makes a good machine too. Lots of variables in the older "plus II" versions on how the rolling table loads the bale. I think the next step up was a 2620. I think there was a few minor issues there. Anything from there on up are pretty durable machines.

There are plenty of the "plus II" machines in use around here yet. The twine cut door & straight pto shaft are nice improvements. Is there a big spread between the "plus II" machines and the newer ones? I see your from North Central South Dakota. We have 2 of the largest Haybuster dealers in the nation in our area. I know new they are a fair bit cheaper just due to the shear volume they move. Kramer Manufacturing in Atkinson Nebraska or Sandhills Equipment in Bassett NE. I understand its nice to do business local. Just thought Id mention them.
 
" I had some slough hay last winter.." That's the kinda stuff I'd hit with the haybuster, knowck the dust outa it and kinda mix and fluff.

It probably is pretty close to enuf protein---about 8 will work--mid gestation. Bovateck gives them appetite and helps digest. The more you can cram thru, the better. My cows eat at least 10# yr old straw and winter great. A little alfalfa adds calcium, vit a, protein, helps digest the rough stuff, the ruff stuff slows bypass to pretty much a halt...
 
I found a 2008 Haybuster 2650 just traded in to a local dealer. Talked to the former owner, he said it worked well and didn't have any problems, and he fed maybe 4000-4500 bales through it. The dealership will take $10k for it and put in a new set of flails (or hammers, whatever you call them). Seems like the best deal I've found on a 2650. I'd like to stick with that model as the local dealer has sold a pile of them and has lots of parts on hand. Is there anything I should look for on that model - weak points or anything?
 

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