Damned canuckle heads LOL

[Econ101]

Jason:

Competion keeps the price down, efficiency keeps the profits up.

Jason, when the border was closed to Canada, there was less competition for Canada's beef. Did that keep the price up or down? Would you rather have more competition or less for your beef? Would you rather just have your domestic markets? Watch out which side of the packer you are speaking of. That is why the ghost writers for the 11th circuit got it wrong and Agman too.

 

[Jason]

You take an extreme example and try to make economic reason out of it.

The Canadian border being shut was not good for anyone. How would we have been better off to lose packers or have extra packers when the border was closed?

When no beef was moving from May to August, how would having enough capacity to kill all the fats have helped?

After August more capacity would have helped, but what about now when profits have disappeared? Would those extra plants be still able to compete especially if they had a $50 or even $20 per head higher break even?

Could a state of the art plant have been planned, built and paid for by now?

If Haymaker has no competition how does he set his price of hay? By gawd maybe people there are at his mercy and will pay whatever it takes for him to live high on the hog. Somehow I doubt it happens that way.

 

[Econ101]

You take an extreme example and try to make economic reason out of it.

The Canadian border being shut was not good for anyone. How would we have been better off to lose packers or have extra packers when the border was closed?

When no beef was moving from May to August, how would having enough capacity to kill all the fats have helped?

After August more capacity would have helped, but what about now when profits have disappeared? Would those extra plants be still able to compete especially if they had a $50 or even $20 per head higher break even?

Could a state of the art plant have been planned, built and paid for by now?

If Haymaker has no competition how does he set his price of hay? By gawd maybe people there are at his mercy and will pay whatever it takes for him to live high on the hog. Somehow I doubt it happens that way.

Competition assures you of a fair price. Barriers to entry assures you of higher prices. Concentration assures you of market tricks when the people with market power are unethical.

 

[Jason]

You have said there are barriers to entry into the packing business so why do their profits fall into the red if barriers to entry assure you a higher price?

A monopoly not concentration would garantee market tricks when unethical.

 

[Econ101]

You have said there are barriers to entry into the packing business so why do their profits fall into the red if barriers to entry assure you a higher price?

A monopoly not concentration would garantee market tricks when unethical.

Jason, have you read any of the microeconomics I have suggested? Monopolies are not necessary for market tricks, just market power. If you are only looking at the beef business you are not going to find the answers you seek. Look at Tyson's whole business and look at increased market power via consolidation in the industries.

When you go in the store looking for a loss leader, you usually purchase compliments to that lost leader at the same store. The compliments are where stores make their money. For Tyson, it is the substitutes to beef that they make their money as you recently witnessed (Canadian beef is a substitute for domestic supplies). If you are only looking at profits on beef, you are missing the whole story. Look at the whole picture.

Consolidation does not necessarily mean higher profits (you would have known that if you had read The Robber Barons or similar books of market power) in the short run. Often companies go out of business in their consolidation efforts. Your assertion that they have to make more money to prove market power plays is just historically incorrect. Go read the books. Learn why we have the laws we have. It will be good for you.

 

[HAY MAKER]

You take an extreme example and try to make economic reason out of it.

The Canadian border being shut was not good for anyone. How would we have been better off to lose packers or have extra packers when the border was closed?

When no beef was moving from May to August, how would having enough capacity to kill all the fats have helped?

After August more capacity would have helped, but what about now when profits have disappeared? Would those extra plants be still able to compete especially if they had a $50 or even $20 per head higher break even?

Could a state of the art plant have been planned, built and paid for by now?

If Haymaker has no competition how does he set his price of hay? By gawd maybe people there are at his mercy and will pay whatever it takes for him to live high on the hog. Somehow I doubt it happens that way.

Yes and I doubt you will convince one cattle man "less competion in the packing industry will lead to higher prices for fat cattle"...............good luck

 

[Jason]

Nice twist Haymaker, no one said less packer competition raises prices for cattle. Concentration of packers does not equate with less competition at this time. The fewer packers are more efficient, able to survive on smaller margins. Smaller margins for them means more money for producers.

If the day were to come where there were only 1 or 2 packers in North America, there could be some serious concern for them using that control to pay whatever they decide. However, long before that happens margins creep up and other players step into the picture when they see an opportunity to make money.

You still haven't answered the question of how you set hay prices if you have no competition. Because you see a chance to take advantage of your customers you assume the same thing occurs in the packing industry.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Nice twist Haymaker, no one said less packer competition raises prices for cattle. Concentration of packers does not equate with less competition at this time. The fewer packers are more efficient, able to survive on smaller margins. Smaller margins for them means more money for producers.

If the day were to come where there were only 1 or 2 packers in North America, there could be some serious concern for them using that control to pay whatever they decide. However, long before that happens margins creep up and other players step into the picture when they see an opportunity to make money.

You still haven't answered the question of how you set hay prices if you have no competition. Because you see a chance to take advantage of your customers you assume the same thing occurs in the packing industry.

No you have it backwards again,I set my prices like the packing industry does,if you are a friend,or family I cut you a secret sweet heart deal,then let all the rest make up the difference,on the cutting & baleing.
On the hay sales I have this captive supply of rounds and squares,and I get in and out of the market at will,I usually can control prices pretty good,until folks start asking questions, then I play fair for a while till I get another chance at controlling the market :wink:...........good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Nice twist Haymaker, no one said less packer competition raises prices for cattle. Concentration of packers does not equate with less competition at this time. The fewer packers are more efficient, able to survive on smaller margins. Smaller margins for them means more money for producers.

If the day were to come where there were only 1 or 2 packers in North America, there could be some serious concern for them using that control to pay whatever they decide. However, long before that happens margins creep up and other players step into the picture when they see an opportunity to make money.

You still haven't answered the question of how you set hay prices if you have no competition. Because you see a chance to take advantage of your customers you assume the same thing occurs in the packing industry.

No you have it backwards again,I set my prices like the packing industry does,if you are a friend,or family I cut you a secret sweet heart deal,then let all the rest make up the difference,on the cutting & baleing.
On the hay sales I have this captive supply of rounds and squares,and I get in and out of the market at will,I usually can control prices pretty good,until folks start asking questions, then I play fair for a while till I get another chance at controlling the market :wink:...........good luck

Your more like Dick Cheney ,Haymaker . The heart of a pig.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Nice twist Haymaker, no one said less packer competition raises prices for cattle. Concentration of packers does not equate with less competition at this time. The fewer packers are more efficient, able to survive on smaller margins. Smaller margins for them means more money for producers.

If the day were to come where there were only 1 or 2 packers in North America, there could be some serious concern for them using that control to pay whatever they decide. However, long before that happens margins creep up and other players step into the picture when they see an opportunity to make money.

No you have it backwards again,I set my prices like the packing industry does,if you are a friend,or family I cut you a secret sweet heart deal,then let all the rest make up the difference,on the cutting & baleing.
On the hay sales I have this captive supply of rounds and squares,and I get in and out of the market at will,I usually can control prices pretty good,until folks start asking questions, then I play fair for a while till I get another chance at controlling the market :wink:...........good luck

Your more like Dick Cheney ,Haymaker . The heart of a pig.

I bet you didnt know Dick Cheney is a canuckle head..............good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

No you have it backwards again,I set my prices like the packing industry does,if you are a friend,or family I cut you a secret sweet heart deal,then let all the rest make up the difference,on the cutting & baleing.
On the hay sales I have this captive supply of rounds and squares,and I get in and out of the market at will,I usually can control prices pretty good,until folks start asking questions, then I play fair for a while till I get another chance at controlling the market :wink:...........good luck

Your more like Dick Cheney ,Haymaker . The heart of a pig.

I bet you didnt know Dick Cheney is a canuckle head..............good luck

Another fine display haymaker, A canuckle head from Wyoming.