Dear Mr. Obama and fff, oldtimer
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You're right, it is well done, but not so effective. I'd disagree with him strongly. He claims the Iraqi people are better off today. Who says so? They don't. Every poll ever taken over wants the Americans out. They want to live in peace and security. Of course they do. Are they peaceful and secure today? No. The news reports are full of Iraqi Christians being killed by Sunnis. By Sunnis forced from their homes by Shiites and now are afraid to go back because they'll be killed. They have a government setting on $billions because they can't agree how to spend it while we're spending $10billion a month to keep them afloat! The Shiites won't agree to let the Sunnis join the Army or the police and we're paying them $millions every week to keep them from killing each other! Will that get better in time? I doubt it.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
We leave now and all that US blood spilled is not only in vain, but will just be the start when Iraq turns into a haven for emboldened radicals and we get attacked here.
We leave now and the US will be seen by our enemies now and in the future as just a paper tiger. We'll bark and they'll laugh at us because they will know we have no bite. Just kill a few soldies and the wussies running the US will pull out. You Socialists need to get a grip on reality.
We leave now and the US will be seen by our enemies now and in the future as just a paper tiger. We'll bark and they'll laugh at us because they will know we have no bite. Just kill a few soldies and the wussies running the US will pull out. You Socialists need to get a grip on reality.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
fff said:
Here we go with that poll thang again. I had to stop reading right there!
It is never about facts. It is always about some manipulated perception. What does the media want the data to say this time? Structure the questions accordingly. Ask the right people. Don't air any televised interviews with intelligent people who don't agree with your views etc.
TexasBred
Well-known member
fff said:You're right, it is well done, but not so effective. I'd disagree with him strongly. He claims the Iraqi people are better off today. Who says so? They don't. Every poll ever taken over wants the Americans out. They want to live in peace and security. Of course they do. Are they peaceful and secure today? No. The news reports are full of Iraqi Christians being killed by Sunnis. By Sunnis forced from their homes by Shiites and now are afraid to go back because they'll be killed. They have a government setting on $billions because they can't agree how to spend it while we're spending $10billion a month to keep them afloat! The Shiites won't agree to let the Sunnis join the Army or the police and we're paying them $millions every week to keep them from killing each other! Will that get better in time? I doubt it.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
Hmmm...isn't that what was happening before we went over there?? Except there were no bribes. If someone disagreed with you they either killed you or had you killed. Read an email this morning. More americans have been murdered in Washington, DC since the warn in Irag began than have been killed in Irag. Maybe we all oughta get out of Washington, DC.
backhoeboogie said:
How else are you going to know how Iraqis feel unless you ask them? Pollsters did ask and they did say they want Americans out of their country. Why would that surprise you? Do you have anything that tells us the Iraqi people want us to stay? The Iraqi government, installed and protected by this country's blood and money, says they want us out in the next couple of years! They haven't even been willing to sign a status of forces agreement! The negotiations started back in March and our mandate runs out January 1. Unless Rice can work out something with them, our troops will be restricted to their bases in Iraq.
TexasBred
Well-known member
fff said:
fff...the American soldier says they want them there....the soldiers want to be there...that's good enough for me.
Sandhusker said:
All that US blood spilled is in vain, just like Vietnam. What did that war win us? And what do you think the Iraqi war is winning for us? Iraq was not a hotbed of terrorism when Bush CHOSE to invade them. When Saddam was overthrown, THEN the terrorist came in. Paying the Sunnis to fight them has been very effective, except now the terrorists are mostly gone and the Sunnis have their weapons, no jobs, no role to play in their government and they're not happy. So we're paying them to stay calm and wait for the next elections....whenever that happens. They were scheduled for October but have been postponed. How long are you willing to foot the bill to keep Iraqis from killing each other?
Your rant is exactly the same one that kept us in Vietnam for years and costs thousands of young Americans their lives, caused our military to implode and dismantle the draft. The death of someone else's son in Iraq won't be changed if my son goes to Iraq and dies. The rest of the world is already laughing at us. They know what our military situation is; they know what our financial situation is and our enemies are laughing themselves silly. The government in Pakistan is on the verge of collapse and Osama Bin Laden is somewhere apparently safe.
You need to sign up for the military. Until you join up, you're just blowing hot air. In fact, IMO, anyone on this board 45 or younger who isn't serving in the military doesn't have a dog in this fight.
TexasBred said:
More military members are donating money to Obama than McCain. That tells me who they support in this race. Some American soldiers say they want to be there. Not all of them. But they don't get to decide. They follow orders. I have no doubt that most of them had rather be home with their families than in Iraq. And that's going to happen if Obama is elected. If McCain is elected, the Iraqi war will go on and on and on. Will it be any different in 2012, 2014, 2020? No. Get us out now and let the Iraqis work things out among themselves. Stop playing referee with our money and our military.
fff said:TexasBred said:
More military members are donating money to Obama than McCain. That tells me who they support in this race. Some American soldiers say they want to be there. Not all of them. But they don't get to decide. They follow orders. I have no doubt that most of them had rather be home with their families than in Iraq. And that's going to happen if Obama is elected. If McCain is elected, the Iraqi war will go on and on and on. Will it be any different in 2012, 2014, 2020? No. Get us out now and let the Iraqis work things out among themselves. Stop playing referee with our money and our military.
Were those soldiers forced to join the Armed Forces? when they signed up they agreed to follow the orders of their Commander in Chief! My nephew is a Captain in the Marines who has proudly served 2 tours in Iraq, and is ready, willing, and able to go back any time he is called to do so, and you're bloody lucky he is willing to do so because he's is protecting your right to be such a friggin' moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TexasBred
Well-known member
fff said:TexasBred said:
More military members are donating money to Obama than McCain. That tells me who they support in this race. Some American soldiers say they want to be there. Not all of them. But they don't get to decide. They follow orders. I have no doubt that most of them had rather be home with their families than in Iraq. And that's going to happen if Obama is elected. If McCain is elected, the Iraqi war will go on and on and on. Will it be any different in 2012, 2014, 2020? No. Get us out now and let the Iraqis work things out among themselves. Stop playing referee with our money and our military.
Doesn't matter what they want....what does matter is that they ALL are volunteers...and yep they go where they are sent. They knew this when they joined. The ware didn't just start yesterday. The military is going over and above it's quota every month in new volunteers. And yes they will get to go home if Obama is elected....not beaten but totally abandoned by a commander who has sold them and US out. Just like Viet Nam. Then our military will go into disrepair, funding and work on all new systems will be suspended and we will become a 3rd rate power. Then you will remember "Change, Change, Change".
A
Anonymous
Guest
A Bumper Sticker
TexasBred
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Bumper Sticker:
Join the Army, Risk Your Life, Defend the Constitution, Then come home and have the liberals treat you like $hit.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
fff said:Sandhusker said:
All that US blood spilled is in vain, just like Vietnam. What did that war win us? And what do you think the Iraqi war is winning for us? Iraq was not a hotbed of terrorism when Bush CHOSE to invade them. When Saddam was overthrown, THEN the terrorist came in. Paying the Sunnis to fight them has been very effective, except now the terrorists are mostly gone and the Sunnis have their weapons, no jobs, no role to play in their government and they're not happy. So we're paying them to stay calm and wait for the next elections....whenever that happens. They were scheduled for October but have been postponed. How long are you willing to foot the bill to keep Iraqis from killing each other?
Your rant is exactly the same one that kept us in Vietnam for years and costs thousands of young Americans their lives, caused our military to implode and dismantle the draft. The death of someone else's son in Iraq won't be changed if my son goes to Iraq and dies. The rest of the world is already laughing at us. They know what our military situation is; they know what our financial situation is and our enemies are laughing themselves silly. The government in Pakistan is on the verge of collapse and Osama Bin Laden is somewhere apparently safe.
You need to sign up for the military. Until you join up, you're just blowing hot air. In fact, IMO, anyone on this board 45 or younger who isn't serving in the military doesn't have a dog in this fight.
We didn't win the war in Vietnam because we pulled out too soon! We found out later from N. Vietnamese Generals that they probably couldn't of lasted another week! They were wondering why we were leaving when we were winning! They thought we knew we were winning because they sure as heck did. But, no history repeats itself. Just like today, we had a bunch of liberal wussies who hamstrung us and brought failure.
TexasBred
Well-known member
fff said:Sandhusker said:
All that US blood spilled is in vain, just like Vietnam. What did that war win us? And what do you think the Iraqi war is winning for us? Iraq was not a hotbed of terrorism when Bush CHOSE to invade them. When Saddam was overthrown, THEN the terrorist came in. Paying the Sunnis to fight them has been very effective, except now the terrorists are mostly gone and the Sunnis have their weapons, no jobs, no role to play in their government and they're not happy. So we're paying them to stay calm and wait for the next elections....whenever that happens. They were scheduled for October but have been postponed. How long are you willing to foot the bill to keep Iraqis from killing each other?
Your rant is exactly the same one that kept us in Vietnam for years and costs thousands of young Americans their lives, caused our military to implode and dismantle the draft. The death of someone else's son in Iraq won't be changed if my son goes to Iraq and dies. The rest of the world is already laughing at us. They know what our military situation is; they know what our financial situation is and our enemies are laughing themselves silly. The government in Pakistan is on the verge of collapse and Osama Bin Laden is somewhere apparently safe.
You need to sign up for the military. Until you join up, you're just blowing hot air. In fact, IMO, anyone on this board 45 or younger who isn't serving in the military doesn't have a dog in this fight.
fff...with all due respect...you're full of $hit...this rant doesn't deserve a respectful response.
Mike
Well-known member
Brilliant plan, I'd say. Bait them into Iraq to get their virgins, then shoot their azz there instead of chasing them all over the globe.
Magnificent!!!!!! :lol: :lol:
fff said:You're right, it is well done, but not so effective. I'd disagree with him strongly. He claims the Iraqi people are better off today. Who says so? They don't. Every poll ever taken over wants the Americans out. They want to live in peace and security. Of course they do. Are they peaceful and secure today? No. The news reports are full of Iraqi Christians being killed by Sunnis. By Sunnis forced from their homes by Shiites and now are afraid to go back because they'll be killed. They have a government setting on $billions because they can't agree how to spend it while we're spending $10billion a month to keep them afloat! The Shiites won't agree to let the Sunnis join the Army or the police and we're paying them $millions every week to keep them from killing each other! Will that get better in time? I doubt it.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
The polls you are talking about are from before the surge.
Lie to yourself if you must but dont lie to him and dont lie to us.
You opposed the surge because you wanted America and Iraq to fail there.
Mike said:
Saddam was giving aid to terrorist groups all ove rthe world and he was making progress in eroding the sanctions.
FFF if you think that you are so smart, make a thread on the justification for the Iraq war and it will be my pleasure to destroy your arguments.
In fact I could beat them all using quotes from Democrats about Iraq from before when Bush was President.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Vision said:fff said:You're right, it is well done, but not so effective. I'd disagree with him strongly. He claims the Iraqi people are better off today. Who says so? They don't. Every poll ever taken over wants the Americans out. They want to live in peace and security. Of course they do. Are they peaceful and secure today? No. The news reports are full of Iraqi Christians being killed by Sunnis. By Sunnis forced from their homes by Shiites and now are afraid to go back because they'll be killed. They have a government setting on $billions because they can't agree how to spend it while we're spending $10billion a month to keep them afloat! The Shiites won't agree to let the Sunnis join the Army or the police and we're paying them $millions every week to keep them from killing each other! Will that get better in time? I doubt it.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
The polls you are talking about are from before the surge.
Lie to yourself if you must but dont lie to him and dont lie to us.
You opposed the surge because you wanted America and Iraq to fail there.
Oldtimer said:Vision said:fff said:You're right, it is well done, but not so effective. I'd disagree with him strongly. He claims the Iraqi people are better off today. Who says so? They don't. Every poll ever taken over wants the Americans out. They want to live in peace and security. Of course they do. Are they peaceful and secure today? No. The news reports are full of Iraqi Christians being killed by Sunnis. By Sunnis forced from their homes by Shiites and now are afraid to go back because they'll be killed. They have a government setting on $billions because they can't agree how to spend it while we're spending $10billion a month to keep them afloat! The Shiites won't agree to let the Sunnis join the Army or the police and we're paying them $millions every week to keep them from killing each other! Will that get better in time? I doubt it.
The deaths/injury of American soldiers in Iraq is, IMO, a total waste of good, patriotic, fighting men. Not to even mention the loss of fathers, sons, husbands to the people who loved them. God help us if in the next ten years we actually need to go to war with a militarily strong country because it will take that long and $billions to rebuild/rearm our military.
Iraq was a mistake. The surge was a mistake. We need to get our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with each other. Let them spend their own money to police their streets and bribe each other.
The polls you are talking about are from before the surge.
Lie to yourself if you must but dont lie to him and dont lie to us.
You opposed the surge because you wanted America and Iraq to fail there.
Yup that was from March, before the results of the surge had taken to full effect -
Just like I said.
Thanks for the backup OT, but I have good evidence of my own to post when needed, but you are welcome to help me out even more in the future.
Have you decided to start telling the truth now?