Dectomax

[gberry]

Be very careful when buying the generic product. It had to only be 80% as good as the original avermectin products.

There is a real immunity building up to these products and 80% effective
is part of the reason why.

FH - you are absolutely correct in your connotation concerning the "80% as good as the original" product!

For those breeders who are skeptical regarding the effectiveness of generic products, look at the WHOLE picture from a little different angle. I am as eager to save a buck (or a LOT of bucks) as the next person, but let's consider the physiological aspects of - - - well, ANY substance - the above-mentioned Ivermectin products, for example. Application of medication "X" does it's job 100%, and that is what we expect it to do. Generic product is much cheaper, is only 80% as effective -but - 80% does a fair job, and it is a lot cheaper and - and - and - - well, you know the rhetoric. But here is the rub, if you will pardon the pun: the 80% Generic product, in doing a - - well - FAIRLY good job, allows the Reticulo-endothelial system (explanation in a moment) to do only a FAIRLY good job. The Reticulo-endothelial system is a large part of the network of "disease-fighting" cells in the body endeavoring to resist invasion of the body of all kinds of negative bacteria, viruses, and other unhealthy critters. It includes cells of the spleen, lymph glands, liver, bone-marrow, blood cell formation, phagocytic destruction of old red blood cells, and bacteria, and the manufacturing of antibodies. By not destroying all of the "bad guys" right off the bat by functioning only 80%, we prevent the body from building up it's natural resistance to - "Whatever's" and the "bad guys" gradually strengthen themselves and get more powerful over time - causing the need for stronger and stronger "Anti" substances to be required to do the same job as the original would have done.

The 80 percenters may work okay in the immediacy of the problem, but in the future it will require stronger doses to accomplish the same results. That is exactly why the current anti-biotic products are so much stronger than they had to be 20-30 years ago-both for animals AND humans. The "bad guys' are stronger and the animals (including us humans) are less capable of resistance - therefore -stronger and MORE EXPENSIVE products are necessary. It is a continual "Catch 22" dillema, and we have nobody to blame for it but ourselves. If we continue to do a half-way job of correction and prevention, we will pay for it in the future, as we are doing right now - not only with our animals but with our Government as well! By NOT doing a 100% job of putting down traitors, insurrectionists and terrorists RIGHT NOW - - we have created a bigger problem in the future. Same thing with "80%" products. It will rise up and bite us in the buttocks sooner or later. Better to do the job right in the first place!

DON'T GET ME STARTED!!

DOC HARRIS

Doc I have to disagree with you a little bit. The reason antibiotics are not as effective today as they were 20 years ago is not because they were only 80% effective, its because they are used inappropriately. For instance (using humans as I know much less about cows) when a patient has a sore throat, runny nose, cough, etc., the vast majority of the time it is caused by a virus. Treating this with antibiotics does absolutely no good and exposes all the normal bacteria in the body to the antibiotic thus selecting for bacteria that are resistant to that particular antibiotic. This is compounded by the fact that many people stop taking the antibiotic once they feel well leaving a population of bacteria that would have been killed but now survive because they didn't complete the course of antibiotics. These bacteria will mutate to be more resistant to that antibiotic next time.

I don't know as much about it (veterinary medicine) but the indiscriminate recommendations on these boards for very powerful broad spectrum antibiotics to be given to cattle for what seems like a poorly diagnosed condition seems very irresponsible. Seems every time a cow coughs someone recommends Nuflor. This is sure to lead to resistance. Also I doubt very seriously that most cattlemen give the full dose of antibiotic as once the cow perks up it is quite a bit of work to get them back into the chute to give those last three doses. This will accelerate the resistance.

Finally, in regards to worming. I have read that most mature cattle adapt to a certain level of worm infestation and do not need to be wormed regularly as it does not affect their performance. Growing cattle on the other hand have not developed this symbiosis? and should be wormed. Is this correct? If so a ton of money could be saved by worming only growing cattle and culling mature cattle that fail to thrive because of worms.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Just culling mature cattle that fail to thrive in general would probably be a pretty good plan.

 

[elwapo]

I had better luck last year with the generic "ivoron" purchased in havre than I had the year before with dectomax. Heck at under $100.00 for a five litre I can afford to treat twice and still save money.

 

[Faster horses]

I can tell you that from the fecals we have run, the younger cattle carry more worms than the older ones do. The immune system of the older cattle helps keep the worm load down. But how many worms are to many?

If you can strategically deworm your cattle in the spring, 6 weeks after turnout, it will add pounds to your calf weaning weights. Doing it at that time cleans up the cattle and the pasture. Do it two years in a row and you can generally skip the third year. Worming at that time, cleans up the cattle, then the weather usually gets hot and dry and worms don't propagate in those situations. They won't pick up worms again until it starts raining in the fall. Then the calves are usually gone, and you only need to worm the cattle you are keeping. The problem comes then, that most are preg-checking earlier and if you de-worm then and you recieve moisture and warm weather, the cattle get re-infested and you have wasted your money.

If you can only de-worm once, be sure it is late enough in the fall that the cattle won't become re-infested.

I have lots of real-life stories to tell regarding worm loads in cattle.
Sure is easy to get reinfected on wet ground in warm weather.