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Defintion of Mongrel cow?

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Dylan Biggs

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hanna,alberta
I have seen a fair bit of reference to a mongrel cow or "the mongrelized cow herd". I would like to know the exact definition. Is it the same as a composite, or more similar to an open composite. or neither. I assume whatever it is it must not be good because the term seems to be used consistently in a derogatory manner.
 
To me the term "mongrel" instantly brings to mind a vision of a rag-tag herd of a little bit of everything - not just breeds, but sizes and shapes. It's one thing to have 100 or 1000 cows that are all peas in a pod phenotypically, and very diverse genotypically, it is however something completely different to have 100 cows that look nothing alike.

We have a neighbour who has bought cows through auction sales for 15 years or more, building up their numbers. Their only criteria was big, exotic cows, and they had to be cheap. Of course they ended up with a herd of everything and anything, and after a few years they realized that there was a real value in uniformity, so they began buying bulls from 1 or 2 outfits, and trying to get bulls closely related to each other. They followed that by putting more focus on keeping replacements out of their better cows that they classed as "ideal" for their program. Today they have a much more consistent herd that LOOKS as consistent as they produce.

So to me, a mongrel and a composite can be 2 very different things. To me a composite is a breeding program that's been built with a plan and dedication. I'd suggest that mongrels are just thrown together without a plan.
 
Herefords? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: KIDDING!!!!! They won the west! I dont know if mongrel is the right word or not. But i know folks who have easter egg herds with all colors, makes and models. They don't seem to have a clear direction with where they want their cows to go. And every fall they pay dearly at shipping time. One neighbor runs such a mixed up bunch of misfits that the guys who used to throw in together to make bigger lots, politley declined to invite him. His calves killed the average and when ya throw in horns and lack of any vaccination program, he simply gives away his calves each fall. He is pushing 80 and has run cattle like this his whole life because thats how his Father and Grandfather ran them. It gives me some hope as if he is still in business even a joker like myself might make it! :wink:
 
I would go one step further and would say some purebred registered herds are mongrelized-- with cow herds with no similarity of conformation and phenotype- and a mishmash of genotypes and bloodlines...

One of the reasons I've seen some terrible lots of replacements sell at some registered sales- multiple sires lots that end up being cattle from 4 frame to 8 frame- with every shape and size in between- with no real conformity on anything except for they are all purebred from the same breed...In their attempt to make a wide assortment of marketable bulls they end up with a terrible mess of replacement heifers...
 
Dylan Biggs said:
I have seen a fair bit of reference to a mongrel cow or "the mongrelized cow herd". I would like to know the exact definition. Is it the same as a composite, or more similar to an open composite. or neither. I assume whatever it is it must not be good because the term seems to be used consistently in a derogatory manner.
Click to expand...



Anything that is not a composite of Highland and Shorthorn. :wink: :lol: :lol: :P :P
 
Oldtimer said:
I would go one step further and would say some purebred registered herds are mongrelized-- with cow herds with no similarity of conformation and phenotype- and a mishmash of genotypes and bloodlines...

One of the reasons I've seen some terrible lots of replacements sell at some registered sales- multiple sires lots that end up being cattle from 4 frame to 8 frame- with every shape and size in between- with no real conformity on anything except for they are all purebred from the same breed...In their attempt to make a wide assortment of marketable bulls they end up with a terrible mess of replacement heifers...
Click to expand...

Well said! My point exactly. There is almost as much variety phenotypically within breeds, as there is across breeds from what I have seen, if you can see past the obvious superficial differences. As Oldtimer says sometimes even within a herd of the same supposed gene pool. Every body has different personal preferences and for sure everyone has a different eye when it comes to cattle. You only have to go a few miles down the road to witness that. Not only that but every bodies operation and management is different. Who is wrong and who is right? If they are still in business and enjoying a life with cattle that in itself is a good thing isn't it? :wink:
 
Dylan Biggs said:
Oldtimer said:
I would go one step further and would say some purebred registered herds are mongrelized-- with cow herds with no similarity of conformation and phenotype- and a mishmash of genotypes and bloodlines...

One of the reasons I've seen some terrible lots of replacements sell at some registered sales- multiple sires lots that end up being cattle from 4 frame to 8 frame- with every shape and size in between- with no real conformity on anything except for they are all purebred from the same breed...In their attempt to make a wide assortment of marketable bulls they end up with a terrible mess of replacement heifers...
Click to expand...

Well said! My point exactly. There is almost as much variety phenotypically within breeds, as there is across breeds from what I have seen, if you can see past the obvious superficial differences. As Oldtimer says sometimes even within a herd of the same supposed gene pool. Every body has different personal preferences and for sure everyone has a different eye when it comes to cattle. You only have to go a few miles down the road to witness that. Not only that but every bodies operation and management is different. Who is wrong and who is right? If they are still in business and enjoying a life with cattle that in itself is a good thing isn't it? :wink:
Click to expand...
I asked this question in another thread...

Maybe a better question considering all the cross-breeding and out-crossing...what exactly is a "breed"?

If all purebred breeders were breeding for breed character, wouldn't EPDs be gravitating toward breed average? Weren't all breeds started by trying to make all the animals the same to fit specific requirements and environment by eliminating outliers?
Now, "curve bender" genetics seem to be the most celebrated within breeds!
 
Back in 1993, our family had the opportunity to visit a ranch in Alabama. They ran about a hundred cows. Each cow looked so different from the other cows that they didn't need ear tags; in fact each cow had her own name. The calving program was year around, and there were four bulls for breeding. One bull was polled Hereford, one was Simmental, one was Santa Gertrudis, and the other was a Limousin. As we were taking the tour, I asked the proprietor, "Have you ever considered using four bulls of the same breed to get more uniformity in the calf crop?" The answer was, "No, the buyers like crossbred cattle." :roll:

The marketing consisted of taking a stock trailer load of calves to the Montgomery sale barn periodically throughout the year. I asked if they sold the whole trailer load at one time through the ring. The answer was that usually the calves sold one at a time, but occasionally two head would sell at the same time.

As far as mongrel cattle go, it would seem that this herd would qualify. :wink:
 
"Cattle from an area in central asia" - oh wait that's Mongol Cattle...
I would say a mongrel cowherd is part camel, part cow, part bison, part etc. and you can't figure out which part came from where.
I think there is a place for some variation in the seedstock business, largely because it takes SOME variety to bring customer herds to their specific needs. I don't see crossbred cattle as being mongrel when it is done with a good plan in place. Actually that applies to seedstock too...
There is a big difference in my mind between putting together a bunch of cows and putting together a COWHERD :!:
The EPD subject interests me. If you put a lot of pressure on breeding curvebenders with EPD, in general you will actually tend to increase inbreeding/genetic variation in the population.
 
RSL said:
The EPD subject interests me. If you put a lot of pressure on breeding curvebenders with EPD, in general you will actually tend to increase inbreeding/genetic variation in the population.
Click to expand...
Could you explain this? Aren't 'inbreeding' and 'genetic variation' opposites?

Ridge Shinn did an article in this months The Stockman Grassfarmer "Are You Linebreeding Or Inbreeding?" He left out Jim Lents' definition of inbreeding which I think is the most logical and accurate.
 
RSL said:
"Cattle from an area in central asia" - oh wait that's Mongol Cattle...
I would say a mongrel cowherd is part camel, part cow, part bison, part etc. and you can't figure out which part came from where.
I think there is a place for some variation in the seedstock business, largely because it takes SOME variety to bring customer herds to their specific needs. I don't see crossbred cattle as being mongrel when it is done with a good plan in place. Actually that applies to seedstock too...
There is a big difference in my mind between putting together a bunch of cows and putting together a COWHERD :!:
The EPD subject interests me. If you put a lot of pressure on breeding curvebenders with EPD, in general you will actually tend to increase inbreeding/genetic variation in the population.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but you'll need to explain that one to me :? I thought by definition inbreeding and increased genetic variation were polar opposites?
 
Grassfarmer said:
RSL said:
"Cattle from an area in central asia" - oh wait that's Mongol Cattle...
I would say a mongrel cowherd is part camel, part cow, part bison, part etc. and you can't figure out which part came from where.
I think there is a place for some variation in the seedstock business, largely because it takes SOME variety to bring customer herds to their specific needs. I don't see crossbred cattle as being mongrel when it is done with a good plan in place. Actually that applies to seedstock too...
There is a big difference in my mind between putting together a bunch of cows and putting together a COWHERD :!:
The EPD subject interests me. If you put a lot of pressure on breeding curvebenders with EPD, in general you will actually tend to increase inbreeding/genetic variation in the population.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but you'll need to explain that one to me :? I thought by definition inbreeding and increased genetic variation were polar opposites?
Click to expand...

Sorry mistyping...I MEANT to say... you will reduce genetic variation and increase inbreeding. This is just by virtue of increased selection pressure that can be applied with EPD. It also makes some assumptions about picking for bigger, faster, if some is good more is better mentality... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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