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Deflate-gate

cowboyup

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What do you guys think about the Patriots getting caught cheating again? I think that Belichik should be banned for a year and Brady should be suspended at least half a season. Something along the lines of what happened to the Saints. Makes you wonder how long they have been doing this...
 
From what I read they each play with their own balls.(That didn't sound right) :oops: When the Colts made a interception the player took the ball to his coach and told him his concerns.

Dang new computer i can't figure out the copy and paste a link :?
 
Before judgment can be passed, resident Rancher's Sports Analyst Jigs must weigh in with his irrelevant 2 cents worth.

My guess is Jigs will say the Pay Toilets learned all their "tricks" from the University of Nebraska football team. :roll:

It's quite a feat for the worst team in the fifth best conference to command the complete, total, and all consuming hatred that Jiggsy has for Nebraska.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Where did Mike's post go? :?

I was thinking that the home team furnished all the game balls like they do in college, but that's not so. Each team uses their own in the NFL.

Still not sure if 2 psi is enough to make a huge difference though. Now if they were using the one ball that was adequately inflated on kicking situations, it would seem to be shady.
 
2 psi is 16% of lowest allowed. I don't think it's a huge deal but still cheating. 11 of 12 balls were under inflated so dont think was coincidental. It must help Brady some or wouldn't have done it. Would look a lot worse if they hadn't ran the ball all over Indy and just pounded them anyway. Makes belicheck look like even more of an ash clown than he already is. I can understand not enjoying talking to the media but this guy is just a dick!! Nfl should provide the balls for every game and only be handled by officials. The solution is only to easy so you know they aren't going to do that.
 
The NFL should indeed furnish the game balls and certify them.

Back some years ago, Mississippi State played in Auburn and the Auburn punter had a huge day, averaged like 60 yards per punt.

M. State coach, Jackie Sherrill accused Auburn of using a ball full of helium during punts. Well, SEC did some testing and it turned out that helium didn't make any difference.

Which is the way I think it is here, but the appearance of impropriety is there.
 
I agree that the NFL should supply the game balls and keep hold of them until they are put into play. That would create an even playing field. All the other sports use the same game ball. Certifying the game balls 2 and a half hours before the game and then putting them back in the hands of the team is ludicrous. The former players that are speaking about it say that just 2psi would make a huge difference in gripping the ball especially in cold wet weather. While I don"t believe that it made any difference in this game it might have been in the game against the ravens and maybe it helps explain why Brady has the highest completion ratio in cold weather games. Not to take away from the fact that he is an exceptional player or that the Patriots are a very talented and well coached team but as a huge NFL fan ( Denver Broncos) this disheartens me to see the lack of integrity in the game today. Even though Belichick claims no knowledge of this the Roger Goodell stated that ignorance was no excuse when he punished the Saints so severely. So do you think the Patriots should be punished the same way for cheating especially since they have been caught cheating before?
 
cowboyup said:
I agree that the NFL should supply the game balls and keep hold of them until they are put into play. That would create an even playing field. All the other sports use the same game ball. Certifying the game balls 2 and a half hours before the game and then putting them back in the hands of the team is ludicrous. The former players that are speaking about it say that just 2psi would make a huge difference in gripping the ball especially in cold wet weather. While I don"t believe that it made any difference in this game it might have been in the game against the ravens and maybe it helps explain why Brady has the highest completion ratio in cold weather games. Not to take away from the fact that he is an exceptional player or that the Patriots are a very talented and well coached team but as a huge NFL fan ( Denver Broncos) this disheartens me to see the lack of integrity in the game today. Even though Belichick claims no knowledge of this the Roger Goodell stated that ignorance was no excuse when he punished the Saints so severely. So do you think the Patriots should be punished the same way for cheating especially since they have been caught cheating before?

Yes I think they should hammer them. The saints thing wasn't any competive and they got popped so I think pats should get wacked as well. Repeat offenders and just shady all the way around. If this is what they get caught doing what else are they doing that nobody knows yet?
 
TexasBred said:
Somebody let the air out......personally I don't think it had any affect whatsoever on the outcome of the game.

Maybe not that game but what about the previous one? I've watched a few nfl pros do some demonstration with lower pressure balls and every one of them could pick out the one that was low. Qb can grip better and I didn think of it but said its huge advantage to running back in bad weather cause he can sink his hand into the ball more and greatly reduce the chance of fumbles. All in all this is a great dynasty of a team and I couldn't dream of what it would be like for the Chiefs to have their kind of success but these little things tarnish the pats recent accomplishments.
 
TexasBred said:
Somebody let the air out......personally I don't think it had any affect whatsoever on the outcome of the game.

Maybe not that game but what about the previous one? I've watched a few nfl pros do some demonstration with lower pressure balls and every one of them could pick out the one that was low. Qb can grip better and I didn think of it but said its huge advantage to running back in bad weather cause he can sink his hand into the ball more and greatly reduce the chance of fumbles. All in all this is a great dynasty of a team and I couldn't dream of what it would be like for the Chiefs to have their kind of success but these little things tarnish the pats recent accomplishments.
 
The effect of temperature on football inflation.
Assume that the game footballs were inflated in a 75 F degree locker room, then taken out to a playing field at a temperature of 50 degrees F. How much would the change in temperature decrease the pressure in the football?
High school physics tells us that the ideal gas law PV=nRT applies. That is, pressure times volume is equal to the number of moles times the gas constant times the temperature of the gas (in degrees Kelvin). Thus, given a constant amount of air in the football and a negligible volume change, the pressure will obey:
P = nRT/V
The change in pressure is thus proportional to the change in temperature,
The 75 degree locker room has an absolute temperature of 297o K
The 40 degree playing field has an absolute temperature of 283o K
The change in temperature of 14o K will thus cause a drop in pressure of 14/297 = 4.7%.
To translate this into a pressure change we must recall that football pressure is measured in gauge pressure, relative to the atmospheric pressure of 15 psi. So the absolute pressure within a football pumped to 13 psi is 13 +15 = 28psi absolute. The 4.7% drop applied to the absolute pressure gives a drop of 1.32 psi. Thus, the pressure within the football at game time will be only 13 -1.32 = 11.68 psi and thus well below regulation gauge pressure of 12.5-13.5psi. If they were just at 12.5psi to start they would be down by 1.3psi to 11.2psi by game time. And of course, a little pressure is lost every time you stick a needle in to check the pressure. Some guy on TV did this calculation but I think he forgot about absolute pressure vs gauge pressure and underestimated it.
It thus seems highly likely that the Patriots equipment manager checked all 12 balls in a warm locker room and they lost pressure merely by cooling off on the field. In addition, the cold rain would have accelerated the heat transfer out of the balls. Finally, if the indoor inflation air was very humid, there would be an additional loss of pressure due to water vapor condensation on the inside of the bladder as the temperature of the football dropped.
 
What if Deflategate is literally a bunch of hot air?

There's at least one scientific theory to suggest the New England Patriots could have used physics to deflate footballs without violating the letter of NFL rule.

"What everyone's looking for is somebody to have physically altered the ball by letting air out," Dr. Allen Sanderson, a research scientist at the University of Utah, told USA TODAY Sports on Friday. "We think this is naturally occurring."

In simple terms, the theory goes like this.

Rather than pumping up a ball in the locker room, an equipment manager could take it into a warmer environment, such as a sauna, and fill it there before the mandatory check by the referee 2 hours, 15 minutes before game time.

As temperature drops, so does the pressure of the air confined inside the ball. So, a ball pumped full of hot air could test at the minimum 12½ psi, but be far less pressurized by kickoff — experiencing a greater drop than if it were filled with air at room temperature.

"The NFL rules are very much ambiguous really because they're not specifying a temperature," Sanderson said. "They're just specifying a pressure, and temperature makes all the difference in the world about how you make that measurement. Us science geeks picked up on it."

The ball wouldn't feel warm to the touch because the urethane bladder inside serves as insulation. And it wouldn't continue to deflate to an unplayable degree, because it'd eventually come to equilibrium with its environment. (ESPN reported 11 of the Patriots' 12 game balls Sunday were deflated 2 psi below the minimum when they were rechecked at halftime.)

Chang Kee Jung, a football fan and physics professor at The State University of New York at Stony Brook, chuckled when the theory was explained. But he agreed it's possible — not only because of the temperature change, but other effects from the steam in the sauna.

"If you put it in the moisture with the hot air, then what happens is that some of the air — which is moist water — it could condense and then it could even more rapidly lose pressure," Jung said. "They may consider it not illegal, but if they actually did it, does that really pass the moral test?"

The NFL confirmed in a statement Friday evidence shows the Patriots' balls were underinflated in the first half of Sunday's AFC Championship Game but were properly inflated in the second half and remained that way for the final 30 minutes, when they outscored the Indianapolis Colts 28-0 on the way to a 45-7 rout.

That'd make sense if officials pumped up the balls at room temperature during the intermission, since the drop from, say, 68 degrees Fahrenheit in their locker room to an announced game-time temperature of 51 degrees at Gillette Stadium wouldn't be enough for a major pressure drop
Deflating footballs may not be as easy as it sounds


In response to a USA TODAY Sports report Thursday about the challenges that would face a team that wants to deflate footballs, primarily given the strict chain of command and time restrictions, numerous readers wrote to suggest various pressure release devices, tire bleeders and even a glove with a needle sticking out of it.

However, the question remained: How could the balls be deflated so quickly, accurately and — toughest of all — without detection in front of 68,756 fans in the stadium, dozens of TV cameras and millions watching at home?

"As a scientist, I bet I could come up with different ways of doing these things," Jung said. "You could probably put a different gas in there. You may want to put things like helium, different gases at different expansion rates. I think about all the possibilities."

The league is continuing to investigate with help from attorney Ted Wells and the investigatory firm Paul Weiss — but no scientists.

Sanderson is quick to note the theory isn't all his own. He spoke with other scientists and read a WCSH Portland story that used the Ideal Gas Law to calculate the possibilities. But if the NFL called, Sanderson said, he'd be happy to help.

"If I was the NFL," Sanderson said, "I'd be going, 'You know, there's really nothing here we can do about this. Our rule is ambiguous and we now need to go back and revise that rule and look at it and see how we can better define that.' "

***

Follow Tom Pelissero on Twitter @TomPelissero
 
The balls are checked 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff and then given back to the team. That gives them ample time to audjust the air pressure however they would like. However they did it to come up with the balls to be under inflated would be a violation of the rules. The Indianapolis colts had no problem getting their balls at the proper air pressure in the same weather. With the league letting the qb pick out their game balls and preparing however they would like I don't think this is a big enough advantage to say the pats wouldn't be here without doing it but still cheating. With their history they should come down hard on belicheck.
 
The balls belonging to the Patriots were checked before the game, were good, and checked again at halftime, then found to be slightly under-inflated.

At that time, (halftime) they were inflated properly and remained sufficiently inflated for the remainder of the game (2nd half). So they had to have been checked after the game and found OK.

Another piece of misinformation was the Colts player that intercepted a pass. It was said a couple of days ago that he questioned the pressure in that ball when he brought it to the sideline after the inteception. He claims he did NOT question the ball pressure and was only trying to secure it as a souvenir.

I'm wondering if it's normal to check balls before during and after a game. And if so, how many other teams have had to inflate balls during a game? Surely the officials can answer this. Don't know who to believe any more.
 
NFL Vice President of officiating, Dean Blandino, held a news conference today in Arizona and according to Jeff Howe of the Boston Herald:

"Blandino said the referee does not log the PSI during the pregame ball check. They're either approved or disapproved."
What this tells me is that the incompetent pricks probably just squeezed the balls. And that basically changes everything.

If they didn't log the PSI before the game, then it doesn't matter what the PSI was at halftime. That also means Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and the Patriots organization are indeed owed an apology from Roger Goodell.

It also means the NFL had their heads up their asses and basically allowed this shitstorm to happen for almost two weeks unnecessarily. How did they not know on Monday morning after the AFC Championship game that the PSI wasn't logged? Oh, they knew....and they just sat on their asses while the media ripped the Patriots to shreds like a bunch of rabid friggin wolves.

What the league should have done was issue a statement saying that they weren't logged and squashed any talk talk about improperly deflated footballs. But they didn't. They just let the shitstorm get bigger and bigger.

Robert Kraft has ever right to be pissed at Roger Goodell. He sat around with his thumb up his ash while the media tarnished the Patriots image and tried to destroy Tom Brady's reputation. The blood is squarely on Goodell's hands.

Knowing how much influence Kraft has in that league, and how pissed he is right now, I would not be surprised to see Goodell gone sooner rather than later.
 
Just because it isn't logged doesn't mean it wasn't checked properly. If they checked at half time I'm sure they checked it properly before. Having never heard of anyone getting caught of this before I wander if this is one of those wink wink rules. Such as not aiding a runner. I believe that's a rule. Sure is in college but at the end of almost every running play there is lineman trying to push the rb for an extra yard. They do everything to give the offense an advantage so that could be true. If it is I'm ok with that if the nfl would just come out and say that. If the pats win this will drag out forever! I also don't think an apology is owed yet. These guys take their footballs they use for the game very serious and they knew dang well how much pressure was in them prior to the game.
 
Ravens tipped off the Indianapolis Colts about the New England Patriots using deflated balls.

According to Fox Sports, the Ravens contacted Colts coach Chuck Pagano, who was an assistant coach for the Ravens for four seasons, to be aware of underinflated footballs before the AFC Championship Game.


Rob Carr/Getty Images
John Harbaugh, left, said he did not tip off Colts coach (and former Ravens assistant) Chuck Pagano about the Patriots' underinflated balls

"I heard all that; I couldn't believe it when I heard it," Harbaugh said on NBC's Super Bowl pre-game show Sunday. "It's ridiculous, it never happened. I never made any call. Nobody in our organization made any call. As a matter of fact, just to make sure I had all the facts, I called up Chuck Pagano this week and asked him, 'Did anybody else in our organization tip you off about deflated footballs?' and he said, 'No way.' "

Harbaugh said the condition of the football had no effect on the Ravens' 35-31 divisional playoff loss to the Patriots, which occurred a week before the AFC Championship Game.

"It never came up, it never crossed my mind, it wasn't even an issue in the game," Harbaugh said. "I didn't even think about it until I read about it later."

The issue of Deflategate has even reached the president.

"I think that if you break the rules then you break the rules," President Barack Obama told NBC in an interview before Sunday night's Super Bowl.

While Obama said he thinks the inflation of the footballs had no bearing on the outcome of the AFC Championship Game, but said he assumes the league will give referees greater control of game balls "to avoid any of these controversies."
 

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