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desperately need to find additional ranch income

R

rynophiliac

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
23
Location
Arizona
Hi all,

First time poster here. My family owns a cattle ranch in Arizona and we are looking for ways to make additional income from it other than just cattle sales. My father had to retire early due to health problems so my parents income has gone down drastically this past year. They have a cattle ranch with an AZ state lease that can carry 120 AU year round. They have about 1 year of savings that they can use to pay for the expenses of the ranch until they will no longer be able to keep this ranch and will have to sell it or foreclose on it if we cannot find additional income to make it financially stable.

I really want them to keep it in the family and have been looking for ways to make additional income from the ranch. I thought I would come here and see if you guys have had success with any other income avenues.

A few things I have thought of was to 1) sell the cattle as finished beef rather than taking the cattle to the livestock auction 2) allow hunting guides to come onto the private land to hunt big game 3) explore government programs to enhance the land or rest the land.

Has anyone else tried these ideas with their ranch? Have you tried something else that you had success with?

Thanks
 
Small places are tough! Too big for hobby, but too small to make a living. Diversification is the key. I was able to be a full time farmer rancher on a small place, for 25 years till life got in the way. I don't regret much other than not getting a college education. So I could have a position, instead of a job, to support my heritage, legacy or addiction to the land. Agritourism is avenue you might look at. I am gonna dab into that this summer with an extra house, we have on the ranch. I am tired of renting it out and live in a scenic area that has great viewscapes for tourist. I am advertising in cycling magazines in the big cities in California. Hopefully I can replace the rent income plus meet some neat people and tell our story at the same time.
 
Holistic Management is an interesting concept and I will enjoy studying the site to learn more.

Quickly skimming it, I did learn that they believe a cow/calf pair needs 20 gallons of water a day. In summer, at least, our cows drink 40 gallons or more!

Also saw a statement that 70 cows would require a semi to haul, and would be 50,000 pounds (which is typical for a semi).

I believe our cows are on the low end of average size at about 1100 pounds, and that most cow herds would need more than one semi to haul 70 head.

Is that important for a teaching site to have more in line, or are they aiming at smaller types of cattle?

Granted, i did a very quick look at the site, but those two things, especially the water, need seriously accurate information if a person is to succeed raising livestock, no matter how much you know, or don't know, about the structure and needs of your soil. While those things are important the water capacity is absolutely a necessity!
 
Does everyone here sell their cattle at the auction or where do you sell cattle? We have always taken our cattle to the auction but I think there has to be a better way. I am pretty sure we are leaving money on the table by selling at auction.
 
I worked on a ranch, we sold through superior, was a better deal than the sale barn, it helps a little, if you have grass taking in heifers to calve isn't a bD deal either.
Devolping heifers might be a option, no bulls, just care and watch, if you a I ship the out bred.
 
There are a lot of variables in your question ryno. First off what is your experience and what do you have to offer? I find that their are lots of different ways to increase your profit margins on a ranch. But you have to think outside the box and take a long hard look at your place. From experience, I can tell you it is tough a lot of times because you may night like what you find. I have a customer that completely changed his ranching paradigm. He didn't have a choice, it was change or eventually possibly lose the place. Agritourism is an option if you have something that the public desires. Marketing is a huge, management is even bigger.
 
In our area, 120 head of cows simply isnt enough to sustain a family without having another job in town. Can a guy make some money? Sure. But not enough to only have the cattle as a source of income. Your idea of keeping calves longer than weaning will pose a new set of challenges as well. How will you feed them? What is your cost to get them to finished weight? Will you have to run fewer mother cows in order to keep calves past weaning? Diversification with ag-tourism, hunting leases or outfitting, ect also have their own issues. Dealing with people can be a huge challenge even if they have money. Think "City Slickers"! Is that worth it to you? I suggest you look at simular sized operations in your area and see what works and doesnt for them. Your climate, ranch location, experience level and many other factors will make me answering your question impossible as i only see what works here. I hope i dont sound negative. Because with hard work, passion and ingenuity you can get it done. But it is an uphill pull. Good luck! :D
 
A welding shop a hundred feet from my house and a Registered nurse in the house plus 200 cows and it ain't all roses yet.It's a long slow climb.My motto is I'll do anything to keep from getting a real job as long as it's legal and ethical.
 
Denny said:
A welding shop a hundred feet from my house and a Registered nurse in the house plus 200 cows and it ain't all roses yet.It's a long slow climb.My motto is I'll do anything to keep from getting a real job as long as it's legal and ethical.
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:D :D :D
 
leanin' H said:
In our area, 120 head of cows simply isnt enough to sustain a family without having another job in town. Can a guy make some money? Sure. But not enough to only have the cattle as a source of income. Your idea of keeping calves longer than weaning will pose a new set of challenges as well. How will you feed them? What is your cost to get them to finished weight? Will you have to run fewer mother cows in order to keep calves past weaning? Diversification with ag-tourism, hunting leases or outfitting, ect also have their own issues. Dealing with people can be a huge challenge even if they have money. Think "City Slickers"! Is that worth it to you? I suggest you look at simular sized operations in your area and see what works and doesnt for them. Your climate, ranch location, experience level and many other factors will make me answering your question impossible as i only see what works here. I hope i dont sound negative. Because with hard work, passion and ingenuity you can get it done. But it is an uphill pull. Good luck! :D
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Most of the other ranches around ours keep their operations real "hush, hush". I have talked to several ranch owners around here and at first it seemed like they didn't know what they were talking about then I realized later that they view us as competitors and didn't want us to know the details of their operation. Kinda sad actually. We should be helping each other succeed. Our ranch really isn't all that negative, just a little bit. If we had one more state or BLM grazing lease we could easily be profitable with a larger herd. But no one has any grazing leases around our ranch for sale right now.

I have done quite a bit of research (or snooping around lol) on the other ranches in the area and that's how I found out about the other sources of income because I know many of them are doing them. I know several ranchers are bringing hunters on their land and I know most of the ranchers around here are not selling their cattle at auction. I now know what they are doing, I just don't know how to connect the dots. I have no idea how to even begin to connect with hunters or how to sell cattle using other outlets other than the auction.
 
Problem lies in selling potloads of even steers and potloads of even heifers. In your situation if you keep heifers you'll end up with a split load of steers and heifers varying weights which will not garner top money also these big outfits may already have an outlet for their calves that has been established over the years.Private treaty selling your calves may garner a little extra money but with my situation we have 200 cows keep 40 to 50 replacements 30 to 40 bulls it leaves us with quite a sort on whats left our best avenue for those calves is sold thru the local salebarn.

I'm serious your best bet may be just to get an outside job and run a hundred cows. Alot of guys do that here I have a land buying problem so I need to Build Cattle trailers (I think) for a little extra cash, that And I don't hang out at the Bar so I get Bored in the winter time.
 
Denny said:
A welding shop a hundred feet from my house and a Registered nurse in the house plus 200 cows and it ain't all roses yet.It's a long slow climb.My motto is I'll do anything to keep from getting a real job as long as it's legal and ethical.
Click to expand...

I have always said " I will try anything that looks like it will make money at least once as long as it is both legal and moral."
 
ryno, you don't provide much information, and that is understandable, but you also mention some good ideas. Finding sources of information for any of them seems reasonably easy.

Do your parents belong to any cattlemen organizations? Being new here, you probably don't know that my family are National Cattlemens' Beef Assoc. members.........and have been since very early in our ranch history, probably before 1900. It is never easy to afford the time or the money for travel and dues, but we believe it has been extremely valuable to us. The education about the total cattle/beef industry has been an eye opener. I believe the infomration about cattle nutrition, what works and doesn't for animal health, and keeping them healthy in the first place may be close to top of value to us, but then the genetics and how they can tailor the cows to fit our climate, terrain, and range has helped a lot, too.
We also are Farm Bureau members, mostly for the insurance, but they also 'think pretty much like we do' on issues affecting ranching. The drawback to that group for us is that they also serve their farming members and those interests don't always serve the cattleproducer well, imo, and their governance is by representative. NCBA a more direct participation with any member able to attend all meetings and vote on all issues of the Policy/Dues Division. Most states also have local or county and state organizations. Just stating our preferences here, re. NCBA. FArm Bureau is a good outfit, too. Maybe some others are, but stay away from those that need some sort of crisis to bring in donations all the time in order to survive!!!!

We have two sons and two adult grandsons in business with us. Another point is , you HAVE to think first of your ranch as a business, THEN as a family 'treasure' if you are to keep it going. The size of the outfit doesn't make so much difference because they sure seem to be a money pit, always needing more of it, it seems, if one is to go for the quality of cattle which will make the best income possible for the area.

We have sold every which way, from early days sending them by railroad to Chicago, to reluctantly giving that up when the railroad quite hauling them. That was 1957 for us. Sale barn has its ups and downs, and so does selling private treaty, but that has worked quite well for us. We like selling on Superior, too. As others have noted, selling in semi-load lots makes quite a difference in effective choices.

The point you mentioned of going for the direct sales can be very good. IF you have the customer volume necessary, or the means to raw, frozen beef. It seems that might be pretty costly, especially if you have to do it all, from managing feeding, processing, soliciting customers, etc. But some are successfully doing that, especially in areas where there is a large population nearby.

The tourism thing is successful on many levels of scale for quite a number or people and there are organizations which connect ranchers with people looking for ranch vacations of various degrees. i have a friend near scenic tourist areas of the state they live in who has guests who often just spend most of a day wandering around their ranch yard looking at equipment or watching whatever their family crew is doing that day, or even sitting on the porch watching the birds!

All of it seems to take people from the family, or hired help to take care of the business, which for some of us makes it not an option. People who do take visitors on a very small scale make some great friends in far away places, tho.

The guided hunting seems to be the most hands-off sideline for the rancher, imo, IF you get a great guide who is a good person and able to get good hunters. Doesn't take many 'bad apples' to spoil any enterprise involving tourists on a ranch

BTW, the USDA seems to be really pushing helping small, and or local businesses lately with both money and advice, classes, etc. Other entities such as Ag Colleges are, too, but not with money, I'm sure!

Whatever you can find, it will probably be pretty hard work but most likely you will be glad to tried you best to keep the ranch. I'm sort of surprised other ranchers in your area seem not to be encouraging or helpful. Are you sure you are reading that right? I sure hope your are mistaken and find some willing to at the least, share advice! In any case, you see the many on this site wish you and your family the best and real success in saving your ranch.

mrj
 
What is the demand for sheep in your area? rotating a smaller herd of cattle with sheep will give a good high density grazing effect, while the higher turnover of sheep with possible live sales to local Hispanics cuts out the middle man. Dorpers will do well in your area, and in an holistic system, Johann Zietsman has covered the genetics of cattle in tropical environments;
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7328854-beef-production-in-the-tropics-johann-zietsman
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3169124-grass-feeding-a-whole-new-ballgame-
 
rhyno i would look into the sheep thing or hogs. you can run cattle but use the others for follow up and faster turnaround and niche markets as andybob indicates you have a large hispanic population close by.as well the smaller animal require less infrastucture.all the way around.
 
Faster horses said:
Don't forget goats. The segment of our society that eats goats is growing
by leaps and bounds. Plus you can milk them too!
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just don't ever mention that you have them on Rancher's.net :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

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