Discussions on different breeds?

[Liveoak]

How about Brahma?

Or how about a Brangus - on the left or the Angus -on the right? Too much ear? Cross them and get the one in the middle.

 

[RobertMac]

Sometimes we need to take into consideration that it is not always what we want, but what the buyers are seeking and are willing to pay a premium to acquire.

Wouldn't that be good, no-ear, black-hide calves...regardless of breed?
Why else would almost every breed try to turn their cattle black?
Maybe a better question considering all the cross-breeding and out-crossing...what exactly is a "breed"?

 

[Soapweed]

Sometimes we need to take into consideration that it is not always what we want, but what the buyers are seeking and are willing to pay a premium to acquire.

Wouldn't that be good, no-ear, black-hide calves...regardless of breed?
Why else would almost every breed try to turn their cattle black?
Maybe a better question considering all the cross-breeding and out-crossing...what exactly is a "breed"?

If the shoe fits, we'd better shine it. :wink:

 

[andybob]

OK andybob I'll throw this one in as out of the box thinking

I quote a breeder;

"We are producing Whitebred Shorthorn cross Highland cows at 440kgs with a three-month-old calf weighing 140kgs. By the time it is weaned the calf is over three-quarters of the mother's own bodyweight which in anyone's book is highly efficient production."

Hard to argue with that for performance. Check out http://www.whitebredshorthorn.co.uk

The difficulty in my opinion would be sourcing enough good quality WB Shorthorn and Highland cattle but like any breed I guess there are good ones out there.

I have always supported the concept of using cattle adapted to the local environment, then using an F1 either as a terminal in itself, or as a damline to produce the required terminal, I used to breed an F1 line for a large ranch so they could produce a consistant quality terminal for their feedlot/Abattoir business. More producers need to think in terms of networking to achieve the optimum production possible.

 

[Grassfarmer]

Sometimes we need to take into consideration that it is not always what we want, but what the buyers are seeking and are willing to pay a premium to acquire.

True but we also need to do our sums correctly and calculate what the premium really is. I read a few years back a comment by a bull producer (of multiple breeds) in his sale catalog that "for the first time in his life black angus calves were selling for more $cwt than tan charolais calves" This observation was obviously an earth shattering revelation to him because he was selling more Charolais than Angus at that time. I got to thinking afterwards that the statement he made really wasn't all that remarkable.
If you sell 500lb Angus calves at $105/cwt versus Charolais at $100/cwt sure that's $25 advantage to the Angus. However if your Charolais bull is worth his salt his calves will weigh 80lbs more than the straight Angus at the same age, advantage $55 to the Charolais. So much for the Angus outselling the Charolais. I have never seen good black steers outsell good tan char. steers in western Canada by more than 5c/lb.
I don't have a dog in this race as I don't breed either but I think no matter your breed or breed preference you need to be careful not to buy into the BS and fashion influenced trends of the day.

 

[Soapweed]

Sometimes we need to take into consideration that it is not always what we want, but what the buyers are seeking and are willing to pay a premium to acquire.

True but we also need to do our sums correctly and calculate what the premium really is. I read a few years back a comment by a bull producer (of multiple breeds) in his sale catalog that "for the first time in his life black angus calves were selling for more $cwt than tan charolais calves" This observation was obviously an earth shattering revelation to him because he was selling more Charolais than Angus at that time. I got to thinking afterwards that the statement he made really wasn't all that remarkable.
If you sell 500lb Angus calves at $105/cwt versus Charolais at $100/cwt sure that's $25 advantage to the Angus. However if your Charolais bull is worth his salt his calves will weigh 80lbs more than the straight Angus at the same age, advantage $55 to the Charolais. So much for the Angus outselling the Charolais. I have never seen good black steers outsell good tan char. steers in western Canada by more than 5c/lb.
I don't have a dog in this race as I don't breed either but I think no matter your breed or breed preference you need to be careful not to buy into the BS and fashion influenced trends of the day.

One thing about using just one breed--life is pretty simple. There are plenty of good heifer calves to choose from when it comes to picking replacements. Calving problems are also kept to a bare minimum, which definitely makes things easier. Another advantage is that the little Angus calves get right up and go to sucking, which is often the difference between their life or death on a cold winter night. We raised Charolais cross calves for several years, and they treated us quite well. I have been around them enough to know, though, that they don't bounce up off the ground as quickly as Angus calves.

 

[cowhunter]

Angus and char calfs bring about the same at the market here. Most people sell around 350/400. Anything biger brings about 25 cents a lb cheeper. So why spend more gettin them bigger than 400. Down here most mama cows have a little of everything. But they sure have some ear. Lots of char bulls and angus to. But more angus. So I'll have to go with the old sayin. Black is beautiful and tan is grand, but white is the color of that big boss man.

 

[MoGal]

What about tarentaise?

They had them on "the cattle show" as a featured breed and I thought they were nice.... they were solid red (and maybe that's the only color they come in, I don't know).

Anyone have any experience with those or crosses thereof?

Also, do the red polls do okay in Canada?

 

[lazy ace]

Just curious but when do people generally calf in Florida? Are replacements purchased or home raised? Is there a lot of AI or mainly natural service.

Like I said just curious about a different area.

Oh and is the grass green now or is it dormant?

Sorry so many questions

thanks in advance

lazy ace

 

[Northern Rancher]

I don't think calving ease comes automatically with straight breeding not even in Nebraska-if you use the right cattle within a breed it can but it can go the other way just as quick.

 

[Soapweed]

I don't think calving ease comes automatically with straight breeding not even in Nebraska-if you use the right cattle within a breed it can but it can go the other way just as quick.

We had plenty of oversized calves when the breed was straight Hereford, and had our share of troubles. Since converting to Angus, calving troubles have pretty much become a thing of the past for us. :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Ohh you can get big black ones too my friend or you could use the right Hereford and get some easy calving baldies lol. It's all in the bulls you use breed is actually redundant-I had a buddy calve 500 heifers bred Charolais and it all went tickety boo.

 

[leanin' H]

What about tarentaise?

They had them on "the cattle show" as a featured breed and I thought they were nice.... they were solid red (and maybe that's the only color they come in, I don't know).

Anyone have any experience with those or crosses thereof?

Also, do the red polls do okay in Canada?

We ran Tarentaise on a ranch I worked at back in the 80's. Real framey cows for this country. We had three Tar bulls and all three were plumb snorty. One took out the passenger side door on the feed truck. Cows were good mothers but kinda flighty like some of the Salers we ran. I did like a cow that was 1/2 angus 1/4 hereford and a 1/4 Tarentaise. Seemed to be pretty mellow, milked well, was a great mother and weaned soggy calves.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Tarentaise are hard to beat for udder quality-there almost seems to be two lines of them -one kind of frailer dairy types and others pretty darn thick. There's some good ones down around Swift Current Sask. They can be ringy little buggers to heel at a branding lol.

 

[High Plains]

I sure like the baseline of the Red or Black Angus cattle with the addition of the modern Simmental to create either F1 feeder cattle or create nice crossbred cows with heterosis working for them everyday of their life. I'd like the cows not too big, not too small, but juuuust right.

For me, black and polled would be a foregone conclusion and I'd start sorting cattle right at that point. If the market weren't biased for color, then I wouldn't be either. Lots of good ones out there of several colors, of this I'm certain.

Lots of love to those other breeds, and I really liked those photos of the Brahmans there, LiveOak.

HP

 

[Soapweed]

Tarentaise are hard to beat for udder quality-there almost seems to be two lines of them -one kind of frailer dairy types and others pretty darn thick. There's some good ones down around Swift Current Sask. They can be ringy little buggers to heel at a branding lol.

I tried a couple Tarentaise bulls a few years ago. The herd they came from were nice uniform cows, with excellent udders. The red Tarentaise bulls crossed with my black cows provided mostly brown colored calves, with a few reds and brindles. Once again, marketing these calves proved tough, so I didn't stay with it past the first year.

For pure buyer acceptance in this area, straight black cattle are hard to improve upon. I will say that the Red Angus probably beat the Angus hands down this past fall through the Valentine barn, but guess I will stick with the blacks. They have stayed the course of time very well, and they are easy to run on a ranch.

 

[Big Swede]

If you believe all the research an F1 female is worth $50 more income per year. For all of us straight breeding take $50 times the number of cows we run and tell me why we aren't crossbreeding. Tradition, stubbornness, or maybe none of us needs the extra income? :? I've been thinking about it for years but thinking doesn't make my cows crossbreds for some reason.

 

[Soapweed]

If you believe all the research an F1 female is worth $50 more income per year. For all of us straight breeding take $50 times the number of cows we run and tell me why we aren't crossbreeding. Tradition, stubbornness, or maybe none of us needs the extra income? :? I've been thinking about it for years but thinking doesn't make my cows crossbreds for some reason.

Back in the 1980's, I read that an average Hereford cow gives X amount of milk, an average Angus cow gives 7% more milk than the average Hereford, and that an F1 Hereford-Angus baldy cow gives 15% more than the straight Hereford cow. Then if you used a bull of a Continental breed, you would get the maximum hybrid vigor available plus the extra milk of the baldy cow. This third cross was to be a terminal cross, and no replacements kept from the deal. More pounds, more profit. Sounded good to me.

I went this route for a number of years, using Charolais bulls for the terminal cross, and it worked quite well. Then I started using straight Angus cows with the Charolais bulls, and it worked even better. All of the calves had black noses, which to a buyer seemed of utmost importance. Some of the calves from the baldy cows had pink noses, and if there were too many of them, the buyers drug their heels a bit. One spring I bought eight nice yearling Charolais bulls for $900 apiece, used them for the breeding season, and had a chance to sell them in October for $1200 apiece. I did, :wink: and haven't run any Charolais bulls since. I thought our weights would go down using straight blacks, but they didn't.

 

[Denny]

The top weaning weight herds here are all straight Black angus and have been for years. I could name 7 in a 13 mile drive straight north of here who wean calves calves in the 600 to 700# weights. They all calve beginning march and ship end of october. I have a hereford bull but it's more because I like baldy cows.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

The best cross in the cattle business is a Hereford cow and an oil well lol.

Come on NR how can you discriminate against a good gas well. :lol: :lol: Thats what kept the special area cowman in business through BSE.