I believe that genetics certainly have something to do with behavior, but in the same sentence handling has alot to do with behavior! I will be the first to admit cattle and I do not get along sometimes. I am not the patient type and that gets me in trouble at times. I have to remind myself to slow down and like it was said slow is fast. I really believe that is true. I am not a cowboy, heck somedays I don't feel like a cattleman! I will also admit that a stick is common place around here more so for protection if something was to happen. Sounds like a Bud Williams workshop is what I need! Our cows are very docile due to culling the nutty ones. With kids around no one needs that crap. I believe some cattle are unmanagable I don't care how good you work cattle. Took us three years but everyone is sensible and very workable. Love when calving comes and its the middle of the night. We use a side by side and everyone just lays there while you make your way thru checking. If ten cows actually get up to move its uncommon. The neighbors herd I would have a hard time stepping in the herd at night or day!!
Disposition, is it Heritable or Learned
- Thread starter flyingS
- Start date
The one thing it sounds like is "cowboys" seem to be looked upon as wild,knock em down, shoot em up characters here. I have a different view. I look at the cowboys in this area and look up to them in the way they handle cattle. Sure its just a handle given I understand that but to them I admire their way. Its not me but sure wish I had some of those skills sometimes! Heck I don't know if I could rope a set of horns on a bale! 
Faster horses
Well-known member
One thing forgot to mention was that Mr.FH never wears a watch.
He says cattle can't tell time.(drives me nuts, but the cows like
it. :wink: ) Doesn't matter what he has to do with or to cows,
he figures it will take all day. Then if he gets done early, he has the
rest of the day to do something else. I know many who plan a couple
of hours to do whatever with the cows and then are mad when it
takes longer.( Sometimes it takes a lot longer) :wink: . FWIW
He says cattle can't tell time.(drives me nuts, but the cows like
it. :wink: ) Doesn't matter what he has to do with or to cows,
he figures it will take all day. Then if he gets done early, he has the
rest of the day to do something else. I know many who plan a couple
of hours to do whatever with the cows and then are mad when it
takes longer.( Sometimes it takes a lot longer) :wink: . FWIW
This is quite a topic, and there have been some really great comments. I have to share a story of Flyin S. Here a couple weeks ago, we took 700 head of cows 18 miles, across some soft, steep hills. These cows were calving pretty hard when we picked them up in the morning. I think we left 7 pair behind, anyway, we get about half way across the hills, and this one old cow has been trying to disappear behind every hill we come to. Flyin S has been the designated driver, mainly because neither myself, nor my riding partner know where or how to get around some of the hills. About half way, my riding partner, whom thinks he is quite the horseman, cowman, and just the perfect rancher, decides that we need to load the cow in the trailer, so we don't lose her. The guy that owns the cows, takes the trailer, backs up to a decent 4 wire fence, and Mr Perfect, and Flyin S go to sorting out this bunch quitter. I am riding a green horse, that doesn't have a clue about how to handle himself sorting, so I just kinda sit back, keep the cows kinda grouped up and watch. Mr Perfect get this cow kinda lined out, and heads her to the trailer on a run. Through the fence she goes. Flyin S goes through the gate, front foots her lays her down, and we back the trailer up. She stands up, walks in the trailer, never really breathing hard.
While I am not saying that Flyin S, and myself are the best cowmen in the country, I am pretty sure, that had it been the 2 of us, I am pretty sure that he would not have had to rope her. It is just a difference in mind set, and patience.
While I am not saying that Flyin S, and myself are the best cowmen in the country, I am pretty sure, that had it been the 2 of us, I am pretty sure that he would not have had to rope her. It is just a difference in mind set, and patience.
Faster horses
Well-known member
LazyWP said:
Great illustration on how 'slow would have been fast.'
Neat story!
Maybe people's disposition should have been included in the title of this thread. Is is genetic or learned behaviour? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I find it interesting watching people work around livestock. I carry either a stick, or a flag. Very seldom do either get used, but if I don't have something in my hands, I feel NAKED. When I work my exotics, I KNOW I can get more done, by myself, with my dogs, and flag, but I am around them daily.
The other thing that I find interesting is the use of a hotshot. I have been to some outfits that absolutely DON'T allow one on the place. They will beat on a cow, with their hands, yell, and eventually break her tail, trying to get her to move. Myself, a little tickle with the hotshot, and things don't come to a halt. You don't have to ram and cram with one! I have been known to take them away from someone, even if it was their cattle we were working.
Being able to read livestock is something not everyone is able to do, nor is it something that is always learned. My granddaughter can read livestock better then some life long ranchers. Part of it is learned, but most of it is because she just LOVES animals, and wants to make things easy for them. Her older brother....he couldn't tell what a critter was gonna do, even after it was done.
The other thing that I find interesting is the use of a hotshot. I have been to some outfits that absolutely DON'T allow one on the place. They will beat on a cow, with their hands, yell, and eventually break her tail, trying to get her to move. Myself, a little tickle with the hotshot, and things don't come to a halt. You don't have to ram and cram with one! I have been known to take them away from someone, even if it was their cattle we were working.
Being able to read livestock is something not everyone is able to do, nor is it something that is always learned. My granddaughter can read livestock better then some life long ranchers. Part of it is learned, but most of it is because she just LOVES animals, and wants to make things easy for them. Her older brother....he couldn't tell what a critter was gonna do, even after it was done.
flyingS
Well-known member
Learning how to recognize a flight zone instead of create one is a start. Learning how to manipulate it is the real trick. Knowing your own limits and not being to proud to admit those limitations are key. Honestly, that is why WP and I get along so well. We have different limitations that we are both aware of. We also can read one another as well as the situation. We are not long time pards nor have we spent countless hours working stock. We visit about what we are doing briefly and we get it done. 98% of the time he knows what I am thinking before something happens. Maybe I am that transparent and simple. 
I sure have to agree with Mr FH. It seems that if you go out with a time limit the pressure is on and a persons attitude changes for the worse. Starting early or even the day before if possible helps me.Faster horses said:
I think that if the odd cow is bad to handle, it is probably genetics, but if it is the whole herd then it is likely the way of handling. Sometimes gentle cattle get stressed when they are in an unfamiliar situation. Anyway that is my two cents.
gcreekrch
Well-known member
WHR said:
In my long lost memory I seem to remember a darn good stockman that helped me a bunch of times in the days when I was more in a rush. He was one of the many I learned a lot from.
It really came together when I learned to listen to the cow rather than expect her to know what I was thinking. :wink:
gcreekrch said:WHR said:
In my long lost memory I seem to remember a darn good stockman that helped me a bunch of times in the days when I was more in a rush. He was one of the many I learned a lot from.
It really came together when I learned to listen to the cow rather than expect her to know what I was thinking. :wink:
The last line says volumes!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
C Thompson
Well-known member
Lots of good stories on this thread. Some of my most embarrasing moments looking back would be my poor behaviour when working cattle in the not too distant past. It took me a long time to accept that slower is always faster when working cattle. My wife had it figured out way before I did and I cringe when I think back on some of the wrecks and all the extra time it took trying to get those dumb cows to get with the program and sometimes just plain not getting it done. Turns out they aren't half as dumb as the guy that thinks they are. There is way too much knowledge out there that is readily available for us to just keep getting it wrong. I have still got lots more to learn but we can work cattle together now quietly and still love one another after. I think the cows are liking the experience better now too.
Thinking back I can remember a time or two that I was the one in a rush! I'll bet we've both learned alot since then and hopefully we are learning yet .gcreekrch said:WHR said:
In my long lost memory I seem to remember a darn good stockman that helped me a bunch of times in the days when I was more in a rush. He was one of the many I learned a lot from.
It really came together when I learned to listen to the cow rather than expect her to know what I was thinking. :wink:
Soapweed
Well-known member
There is a saying that sure holds true. "It's amazing how dumb a cow can be; what's more amazing is how many people can't outsmart a dumb cow."
Another good one: "The only way to move cattle fast is to move them slow."
There was an old rancher in this country who has now passed over the Great Divide. This fellow would always show up at the brandings, and would be self-appointed to stand in the gate attempting to let cows through and hold back the calves. He was perpetually aided by his rattle paddle. Another rancher commented one time, "Old So-and-So is just like a bad dog. He can only see one cow at a time."
Another good one: "The only way to move cattle fast is to move them slow."
There was an old rancher in this country who has now passed over the Great Divide. This fellow would always show up at the brandings, and would be self-appointed to stand in the gate attempting to let cows through and hold back the calves. He was perpetually aided by his rattle paddle. Another rancher commented one time, "Old So-and-So is just like a bad dog. He can only see one cow at a time."
gcreekrch
Well-known member
Soapweed said:
Are you sure he's gone? He may have just moved to this area. :wink:
Soapweed
Well-known member
gcreekrch said:
This is one big reason we have gone to branding our calves without a lot of extra "help." Being somewhat of a "fair-weather cowboy," I can also have some control of the days we brand, whether doing our own calves or not having to go to a neighbor's place on a crummy windy dusty miserable day.
leanin' H
Well-known member
I gotta stand up for the Cowboy some of ya'll keep bashing. You can call somebody who doesnt know cattle anything you want, but it irks me when you throw cowboys under the bus. I get what you are trying to say, but in our country, to be called a cowboy is a pretty dear honor and not taken lightly. A cowboy is the guy who can do anything with cattle. On the desert, in the working corral, in the calving shed or loading alley. With a rope or with a chute. I understand what ya mean by saying stockman but if you ran cattle out here you'd see some fine cowboys who have forgot more about cattle than some folks will ever know. :? What i'm saying is being called cowboy shouldnt be derogitory. Call those folks who whorah cattle and screw things up a dude or a greenhorn or a dirty sun of a gun.
flyingS
Well-known member
Soap, was at a branding one time with a similar fella. I tend to sort a calf off and rope him off the the gate instead of out of the bunch. I don't like the congestion of everyone trying to out rope everyone else in the bunch. This old boy stood at the gate of a round branding corral and watched so calves couldn't get out with a long piece of pvc pipe with a wal-mart sack tied to it. There happened to be a calf walking down the fence toward the gate and a lot of competition in the back, so I just walked to him thinking he would calmly walk by the gate and I could ride by and snag him. Sure as heck I like it when a plan comes together, just as I reached out to rope the non-expectant calf the old boy stuck that sack right under my horses nose and gave it a sake so he didn't get away. He gotter done, neither the calf or my green horse made it out the pen. Due to my respect for my neighbors and not wanting to cause a scene, I let it slide without any conversation about the watcher of the gate and his device of choice. Sometimes people like that make it tough to keep good humor.
gcreekrch
Well-known member
flyingS said:
You are much more tolerant of your "fellow man" than I. :wink: