Does Coke Compete for Producer's Dollar?

[Jason]

Rod, a couple points.

You said to SH that beef prices in Canada didn't come down. That isn't really accurate. Canfax reported they were down at retail 20% overall. End meats were down much more but middle meats were at the same levels and actually climbed during part of the time.

We all thank Canadians for stepping up and eating more beef, but many wanted more steaks, actually making a shortage of some cuts while we were swimming in grind.

You ask why hasn't your feeder prices been pushed up? Take out the BSE problem and what has been the general trend in calf and feeder prices? Was there ever a time when we could get $1000 per head for a calf or feeder? Those prices are back, this week 8 wt steers at $1.30 is $1040, in a system that is still recovering.

Price makers. How do we do that when we have to compete against cheap chicken/pork? We can add quality, retain ownership longer, but the ability to force the consumer to buy our product at a set price is out of our reach.

The other problem is what about the $250 spread between high and low cost producers? If a price is set that allows the top level to make a profit will the ones that cost $250 more make it? If not you have legislated them out of existance rather than letting the market signals take care of them. Same outcome maybe either way.

Randy's situation he said Cargill offered a similar product to his at a lower price to the whole national chain. Nothing illegal or immoral there. If it was the reverse everyone would be cheering Randy for beating Cargill.

I agree people need to eat. I wish we could just produce a good product and everyone would have access to it. Reality under current situations is that some will go hungry while some will get fat (physically and economically). Leveling the entire playing field is a totally different discussion and a higher power will have to take care of those things.

 

[mrj]

Surely is some much appreciated good discussion with facts, as people see them.

Access to to financial information is a two edged sword, IMO. If packers, retailers, or your or my businesses books must be completelyopen to the world and information is power, isn't there a danger of unfair competition from those who can use that information to undercut whichever business is "exposed"? I can see them being open to bonded, secure auditors to look for illegal transaction or omissions, maybe.

Two things I believe can help sell more product, which benefits us all, IMO, one is the current US Beef Checkoff project of pushing veal salesso those little cull dairy calves will not become huge beef cattle.

Second is that I'm seeing quite a move to more meatloaf, often fancy, even gourmet, meatloaf on menu's. Not just in family type restaurants, but in the high end ones, too. I hope there are recipes going out to consumers to help them do that at home. I hope recipes are being promoted to use ground beef in making a piece of meat that tastes real close to a bacon wrapped filet. Seems to me that will give flavors similar to high end steaks that people can do at home if their budgets won't allow going out for the real thing, or even preparing those top steaks at home. Sometimes it seems we forget the lower income consumers.

MRJ

 

[rkaiser]

Jason,

Since you want to keep bringing Randy into the situation ---- I did say similar product, not the same product. Cargill's sales team were the ones who convinced the Hotel to go back to their product. Sales is pretty much what selling a product without growth promotants is all about. I cannot prove that you will live a healthier and longer life if you eat beef that is not laced with hormones and antibiotics, but Cargill obviously convinced them that their was no difference.

Besides Jason, I have always expected that some other salesman would beat us out in certain cases, and we certainly were stepping into Cargills territory in this case. Que Sara Jason, let's move on. We'll tackle this issue again down the road, and next time we may win out.

Jason -

We all thank Canadians for stepping up and eating more beef, but many wanted more steaks, actually making a shortage of some cuts while we were swimming in grind.

Your opinions of what happened during the BSEconomic times are laughable Jason. Canadians never ate more steaks for crying out loud, except maybe D1 steaks. We are still swimming in trim Jason, and it won't stop until OTM's can move into the U.S. The steaks and top end cuts have been moving south in boxes since Sept. 2003. Thanks to Canadians all right. Thanks for cleaning up a bunch of D1 cow steaks and grabbing the hamburger that Cargill is leaving behind at 99 cent sales prices.

Now tell me about how this story of mine has nothing to do with new projects or projects like ours trying to survive.

All legal like you always say Jason - all legal. So lets just leave things alone. :roll:

 

[mrj]

rkaiser, do you have test results showing your beef has NO residues from hormones and antibiotics, and the natural levels of hormones in the actual beef, as well as tests showing that "commodity" beef DOES have residues including the levels of those residues, of introduced hormones or ionophores and antibiotics?

It is one thing to raise cattle to produce "natural" beef with NO such residues, but shouldn't one also test to PROVE those statements? Are there not rules against any "residues" other than from approved tenderizing, flavor adding marinades in beef? I believe there are in the USA.

Does anyone know how much of the Canadian beef processed in the USA goes back into Canada, as well as the total amount of beef going from the USA into Canada?

Maybe it is time to work together promoting the superior northern grown beef from BOTH countries.

Or TEST the tenderness, residue levels, nutrient levels (including fatty acid component levels) in all beef and sell based on the actual quality of each carcass.

MRJ

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1) You said to SH that beef prices in Canada didn't come down. That isn't really accurate. Canfax reported they were down at retail 20% overall. End meats were down much more but middle meats were at the same levels and actually climbed during part of the time.

2) You ask why hasn't your feeder prices been pushed up? Take out the BSE problem and what has been the general trend in calf and feeder prices? Was there ever a time when we could get $1000 per head for a calf or feeder? Those prices are back, this week 8 wt steers at $1.30 is $1040, in a system that is still recovering.

3) Price makers. How do we do that when we have to compete against cheap chicken/pork? We can add quality, retain ownership longer, but the ability to force the consumer to buy our product at a set price is out of our reach.

4) The other problem is what about the $250 spread between high and low cost producers?

5) Leveling the entire playing field is a totally different discussion and a higher power will have to take care of those things.

1) Interesting. Both Federated and Safeway reported steady overall beef retail prices over 2 years (steady within the "normal" market fluctuations). Now my local butcher market who buys direct from producers definitely dropped his price as he was able to purchase fat cattle at a reduced price and passed the savings onto his consumers. I wonder what Canfax was sampling?

2) Feeder prices are going to be artificially high for awhile until the market straightens up. Before BSE, the markets were beginning to level and would likely have started dropping. At least Sask markets were showing those signs.

3) Price makers have to compete in a free market, but at least they are allowed to set a price, whether it be too high for the market to bear or not.

4) I agree, some people could lose money selling water to dying millionaires in the desert. I see your point, but I believe the market is leaning a little too heavily the other way.

5) I agree, its beyond this discussion (heck didn't this start out as Coke somewhere?), but if we don't inform the higher powers what we want, we're not going to get it.

Edit: I was re-reading a couple posts on the thread, and need to add this: I don't blame JUST the packers for my ever shrinking profit margin. There are a few reasons why I'm seeing shrinking profit margins, but this thread didn't seem to be the appropriate place to voice all of them (you don't want me to get started on an oil company rant), especially since its exploded like it has.

Rod

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Access to to financial information is a two edged sword, IMO. If packers, retailers, or your or my businesses books must be completelyopen to the world and information is power, isn't there a danger of unfair competition from those who can use that information to undercut whichever business is "exposed"? I can see them being open to bonded, secure auditors to look for illegal transaction or omissions, maybe.

Agreed, although if all people have access to all information, it should level out. Perhaps your bonded auditors idea would be better, but then you have to be concerned about a dishonest auditor selling information to the highest bidder. I belive in KISS

Rod

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Geeeeze, Rod, you got nearly two dozen things wrong in one post! :wink: That beats Bill Bullard's record of 19! :lol:

You're the new Blamer Champion!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do I win anything? :lol:

Rod

 

[Econ101]

Geeeeze, Rod, you got nearly two dozen things wrong in one post! :wink: That beats Bill Bullard's record of 19! :lol:

You're the new Blamer Champion!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do I win anything? :lol:

Rod

You got my vote, Rod. One day it might come with a corona.

 

[Sandhusker]

Geeeeze, Rod, you got nearly two dozen things wrong in one post! :wink: That beats Bill Bullard's record of 19! :lol:

You're the new Blamer Champion!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do I win anything? :lol:

Rod

You got my vote, Rod. One day it might come with a corona.

I prefer to buy American. I'll toss in a Sam Adams.

 

[Econ101]

Do I win anything? :lol:

Rod

You got my vote, Rod. One day it might come with a corona.

I prefer to buy American. I'll toss in a Sam Adams.

If you are there, I'll get you a Sam Adams. We happen to like very dark and stout beers.