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Does the Feed Ban Really Work?

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Mike

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A BSE case born in September 1996

source Defra

BSE has been diagnosed in a Hereford Cross cow, born on 14 September 1996, 1 month after 01 August 1996, when extra control measures on animal feed containing mammalian meat and bone meal (MMBM) were considered to have been fully implemented. The animal was taken under the current compulsory testing programme of all cattle taken as fallen stock. Its farm of origin was in Dorset. When it was nineteen months old, it was moved to another farm in Dorset, where it remained until it was submitted for slaughter on 30 May 2003. Disease was officially confirmed on 7 July 2003.
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A BSE case born in December 1997

BSE has been diagnosed in a Holstein Friesian cow born on 01 December 1997, sixteen months after 1 August 1996, when extra control measures on animal feed containing mammalian meat and bone meal (MMBM) were considered to have been fully implemented. The animal was taken under the compulsory TSE surveillance programme, an aspect of which requires the UK to test all animals aged over 42 months and born after August 1996, which are submitted for slaughter under the Over Thirty Months Scheme. Its farm of origin was in Pembrokeshire, where it remained until it was submitted for slaughter on 15 April 2003. Disease was officially confirmed on 05 June 2003.
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A BSE case born in July 1997

BSE has been diagnosed in a Friesian Holstein cow born on 19 July 1997, eleven months after 1 August 1996, when extra control measures on animal feed containing mammalian meat and bone meal (MMBM) were considered to have been fully implemented. The animal was taken under the current compulsory testing programme of all cattle born between 01 August 1996 and 31 July 1997 and submitted for slaughter under the Over Thirty Months Slaughter Scheme (OTMS). Its farm of origin was in Hampshire, where it remained until it was submitted for slaughter on 11 April 2003. Disease was officially confirmed on 05 June 2003.
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A BSE case born in August 1998

BSE has been diagnosed in a Friesian cow, born on 15 August 1998, twenty-four months after 1 August 1996, when extra control measures on animal feed containing mammalian meat and bone meal (MMBM) were considered to have been fully implemented. The animal was taken under passive surveillance as a clinical suspect. Its farm of origin was in Somerset where it remained until it was slaughtered as a BSE suspect on 19 March 2003. Disease was officially confirmed on 9 May 2003.
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And the list goes on.........................................and on.........
 

Mike

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frenchie said:
So perhaps Purdy was on to something with his theory.

Perhaps. He does make some interesting assumptions but loses me when he gets on the "Air traffic patterns" of the Concorde.

Something just ain't right with this picture of BSE. Are we being fed a false sense of security?
 

rkaiser

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Mike,

You always want to discredit Mark with the "OUT THERE" conversation about Concord Jets and the likes.

What Mark is actually trying to say is that there are many environmental and man made factors that can cause the imbalance responsible for misfolded prions, including SUCH things as overdoses of organophosphates, continued and excessive exposure to rouge metals, and possibly even links to sonic presence. Most of the original cases of BSE in the UK were diagnosed by verterinarians walking up to suspect cow and "Clapping their hands".

My opinion - Transmission theory is mostly garbage, and if you are scared to think outside the box and examine the common sense behind Marks theory and others, the beef industry will never rid itself of the financial uglyness of BSE.
 

Mike

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Gee, I thought by questioning the feed ban that I might be "thinking outside the box" as far as mainstream science goes.

Rogue metals I can deal with. Sonics as being a causative agent?????????

I ain't buying it....Yet.
 

PORKER

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Gee,I do the SAME Thing Mike,I always think out side the box ,Every sob lobbyist in the world will never change my mind on BSE.
 

Mike

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PORKER said:
Gee,I do the SAME Thing Mike,I always think out side the box ,Every sob lobbyist in the world will never change my mind on BSE.

Lot of good it does us though. What are WE going to change? Not much.
 

bse-tester

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British Government sources stated that at least 203 new cases of BSE were being evaluated by VLA. The fact of the matter is that the feed ban does not work! The Canadian Government and the British Government failed to recall a single bag of feed and the fact is that even in late 2004 and early 2005, two feed producers in Alberta were openly admiting to spiking their feed with animal protein derived from ungulates and road kill. So, if anyone feels that feed ban actually is working, then they are sadly mistaken. Feed producers in Quebec were being investigated by the CFIA during 2004 for potential violations. So, where does all that rosad kill go folks? Where did all the chicken and pigs go that were being fed the offal and waste materials from the cattle rendering plants? And then, where did we send the chicken and pig remains? To the cattle??? So, the cycle continued long after the so-called feed ban!! To a great degree, it was all smoke and mirrors.
 
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Anonymous

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bse-tester,

Once again you have revealed your CHA CHING $$$$$ Bias.

The feed ban has worked.

If in fact there wasn't 100% compliance, that does not circumvent the fact that the vast majority were compliant.

You use the extreme to imply the norm making a case for your tests.

To suggest that the feed ban has not worked with all the proof to the contrary regarding BSE surveilance testing, is just flat wrong.



~SH~
 

Jason

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bse-tester said:
British Government sources stated that at least 203 new cases of BSE were being evaluated by VLA. The fact of the matter is that the feed ban does not work! The Canadian Government and the British Government failed to recall a single bag of feed and the fact is that even in late 2004 and early 2005, two feed producers in Alberta were openly admiting to spiking their feed with animal protein derived from ungulates and road kill. So, if anyone feels that feed ban actually is working, then they are sadly mistaken. Feed producers in Quebec were being investigated by the CFIA during 2004 for potential violations. So, where does all that rosad kill go folks? Where did all the chicken and pigs go that were being fed the offal and waste materials from the cattle rendering plants? And then, where did we send the chicken and pig remains? To the cattle??? So, the cycle continued long after the so-called feed ban!! To a great degree, it was all smoke and mirrors.

Were all 203 cases born after the feed ban? I doubt it.

Road kill in Alberta is fed to bears, or disposed of in landfills.

If 2 feed companies said they were using banned animal protiens in cattle feed, they would be subject to fines. CFIA is checking rendering plants and feed companies. Producers have the responsibility to avoid any processors that are questionable. The market will weed out those guys if they exist.
 

Jason

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Mike said:
Jason, There have been over 40,000 cases born after the ban.

Just in Britian? So why is the number dropping still? Could be feed bans were slow to take effect. Or has every producer in Britian started feeding copper?

The feed ban has been in place 8 years? That would be an average of 5000 cases per year but we are down to 203. Looks to me like they have a handle on it and maybe in 3-5 more years might have 0 cases.
 

Mike

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Jason said:
Mike said:
Jason, There have been over 40,000 cases born after the ban.

Just in Britian? So why is the number dropping still? Could be feed bans were slow to take effect. Or has every producer in Britian started feeding copper?

The feed ban has been in place 8 years? That would be an average of 5000 cases per year but we are down to 203. Looks to me like they have a handle on it and maybe in 3-5 more years might have 0 cases.

That was Ron's whole point. The feed ban is not working or there would be 0 cases. DEFRA - EFSA passes it off as "leftover" feed but who has feed lying around that is 8 years old?

I think? there were over 600 cases last year in Britian. Feeding copper and maybe even the organophosphate thing is the real culprit?

Did you read the cases in the intial thread? They said, "extra control measures" were taken to assure no MBM in feed.
 

bse-tester

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I guess that I should get used to the crap responses, but it is so hard to do that. I am not pushing my test here in the post shown above! If you - "SH" - can point out precisely where I did, I will offer you an apology. Nowhere in my post is the word "Test" even mentioned. It is brutally apparent that YOU are the one with the bias. A bias that is bent on slamming anything that doesn't jive with your point of view. Now, before you get all bent out of shape, I do want you to know that I do indeed appreciate your comments and welcome your criticisms and comments and hopefully you will participate in some constructive and relevent discussion. But to constantly make these stupid accusations as to what you think I am trying to pull here is bordering on ridiculous, so please, try to simply respond to the posting as it is written and you will be amazed at how incredibly sweet and nice I can be. Ta Ta for now. Ron.
 
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bse tester,

You do nothing but slam USDA's current BSE protocols but you have nothing to back your position that the feed ban and current testing methodology has been ineffective in finding BSE in the U.S..

Finding rare cases of feed ban non-compliance doesn't back that position.

An "inconclusive", born before the feed ban, that became a "weak positive with the Western Blot does not back your position.

BSE "fear mongering" does not back your position.

HARD PROOF WILL!

The fact that we have tested literally thousands of cattle since the feed ban and found no positives in the U.S. suggests that you better come up with a better justification for your test than you have.

You are going to have to offer hard evidence that there is BSE cattle in the U.S. that were born after the feed ban that are not showing up with our current tests to prove your point. Nothing less will justify your test.

Do that, and you will have my respect.

Keep trashing the existing system with no hard evidence to support your position to the contrary, and you will continue to receive my criticism.


~SH~
 

bse-tester

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Some years ago, studies were presented to the British Government that indicated that cows passed infectious diseases through their milk directly to the feeding calf and also to the unborn calf. This study was shot down in flames by those who stood to loose the most, the British Dairy Producers. Having said that, it is a scientific fact that the placenta does not stop every known disease. It is a scientific fact that milk does indeed contain trace metals and other compound that have been ingested by the cow. It is also a scientific fact that normal prions are found in milk. So my question is simply this - is it possible then that abnormal prions are also found in milk? One other event that has been somewhat overlooked in this BSE crisis, is the fact that the semen from champion breeding stock was also subject to export stoppage here in Canada and the CFIA never did really offer up any plausible explanation as to why. Some studies were done on seminal fluids and abnormal prions have been detected therein. But the problem I have is that the authorities never did offer any decent reasons as to why breeding stock in the form of semen was also barred from exportation.

I am sure this might lead to some interesting discussion and to "Reader the Second," I most certainly agree with your statement regarding the vertical transmission and offer this only to generate some good old intelligent conversation and debate on what I consider to be a truly interesting topic. Ron.
 

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Reader can you explain to us when CJD became a Herd problem?

Until we test a sufficient number for a sufficient period of time neither you nor I nor bse-tester can say what the prevalence of CJD in North American herds is.
I thought we were testing for BSE? :?

So shut up for a while. It's getting tiring. You have NOTHING on your side except rhetoric.

:shock: Isn't this a bit rude Reader as some of us could say the same to you but we don't. :roll:
 

BRG

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BSE Tester,

I agree with most of what you are saying, but you are mistaken by saying semen can't be exported out of Canada. I own a semen company and sell for another one in Canada. We have shipped 1000's of units of semen across into the U.S. this last year.
 
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Anonymous

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Reader: "SH - we've tested 10% of the downers and barely tested any of the other cattle. We're testing far fewer than EU states."

We've tested enough cattle in the highest risk categories in both Canada and the U.S. to detect BSE if it was prevalent.

You say we've tested far fewer than the EU states? Well no kidding? They had a lot more BSE than we did why wouldn't they test more?

Wouldn't that be logical?


Reader: "Until we test a sufficient number for a sufficient period of time neither you nor I nor bse-tester can say what the prevalence of CJD in North American herds is."

I'll take that as your admission that you don't have a clue how prevalent BSE in the U.S. is but you seem to think you know more about it than USDA or OIE.

That's prettty arrogant!


Where is your proof positive link between CJD and BSE?

Where is your proof BSE can be transmitted in the meat? Mouse prions?

You will divert both questions just like before.


Reader: "Your position is untenable and will be proven so by experts, the GAO, and Congress."

Yeh, whatever!

Congress is conducting research on BSE? Interesting!

Sounds like you're hoping for an epidemic so you can justify scaring your kids away from eating beef.


Reader: "So shut up for a while. It's getting tiring. You have NOTHING on your side except rhetoric."

Oh listen to you! Who nominated you Queen Bee of the forum?

You post BSE "fear mongering" statements, theories, and opinions that say what you want to hear and criticize USDA for their preventative measures, yet you don't post facts that support your position and contradict USDA's position.

Talk about ad nauseum.

Someone questions what you want to believe and you blow a gasket.

I guess we can all sleep alot easier now knowing that Reader cares more about saving lives than USDA and OIE. That's reassuring!

Someone should have them contact you for advice.



~SH~
 

rkaiser

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Finding myself torn on this thread. Agreeing with some of what SH has to say, and even agreeing with some of Reader's rhetoric. Yah rhetoric Reader, you're about as predictable as anyone else on this site.

I find it interesting that Reader called my connection to Vet's clapping their hands to identify early symptoms of BSE hogwash. Then went on to say that
Neurodegenerative diseases make the victim highly sensitive to light and sound and other stimuli
Is BSE nerodegenerative or not??

Am I out to lunch or is the test that bsetester detecting neurodegenerative disorder, with another test having to be done to identify actual BSE. Maybe we should all just "Clap our hands".

I asked SH what he thought of testing OTM cattle for market acess on another thread with no response. I'll quote again, a bit from one of our BIG C newsletters.

As you know, established industry groups have steadfastly asserted that no export markets have ever stated that they would buy tested beef products from Canada and, as such, there was no requirement for Canada to adopt a policy of BSE testing at the slaughter level as a means of satisfying export demand. Some of you may recall hearing this line from government and industry representatives who attended many of the Beef Initiative Group meetings held throughout the summer and fall of 2004.

As we have always suspected, this assertion has proven to be false. As members of the Canada Beef Export Federation, we recently received a letter from Ted Haney, CBEF President which states:

“Japan’s former Minister of Agriculture (Kamei) has been on record many times stating that Canada or the USA could test cattle for BSE as a way of reestablishing trade with Japan. This assumed policy position has not been widely reported in either Canadian or American press, primarily as the option has not been supported by industry or government.”

This statement suggests that both government and industry leadership have had knowledge of the export potential for tested Canadian beef but have chosen to mislead Canadian producers by insisting that such markets did not exist. The reason for this is, I believe, directly related to pressure brought to bear on industry groups from existing packer operations who see BSE testing as a cost-prohibitive burden.

As always, I disagree with the transmission theory, and have explained numerous times why I beleive the numbers have decreased in the UK.

BUT I also beleive that BSE has mostly been BULL **** ECONOMICS, and we need to play the game along with the governments, industry groups, and packers, who have been using this crap to make headway for each of their own interests. If BSE testing will help the producers of Canada and the USA in any way, I say GO FOR IT.
 

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