DTN on R-Calf

[Bill]

If Dittmer isn't a reliable source how about DTN?

Shakeup In R-CALF Leadership
By Jerry Hagstrom
DTN Political Correspondent
Washington (DTN) — The Ranchers Cattlemen Action Legal Fund-United Stockgrowers of America has changed presidents, lost a key consultant and seen one of its founders resign in the last two weeks.
Bill Hawks, the former USDA undersecretary who had been a consultant for R-CALF, resigned, President Chuck Kiker was replaced and R-CALF founder Leo McDonnell also resigned.
Hawks left in a blowup over letters sent to Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns in early January.
R-CALF, which was founded in 1998 because some western ranchers believed the National Cattlemen's Beef Association was too conciliatory toward imports and the meat processing industry, has had a long-term position against imports of beef and cattle from Canada. R-CALF opposed the imports on the basis that they allow U.S. meat processors to avoid paying higher prices for cattle and meat and on the grounds that Canada does not have sufficient protections against bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
On Jan. 7, R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sent Johanns a letter stating the group's opposition to USDA's proposed rule to allow the importation of Canadian beef from animals 30 months of age or older. Hawks confirmed that he advised R-CALF President Chuck Kiker, a Texas rancher, that the letter was offensive. On Jan. 8, Kiker sent a letter to Johanns that some R-CALF board members found too conciliatory and deferential to Johanns' decision-
making power on the 30-month rule.
Kathleen Kelly, a Colorado rancher and R-CALF founder said in an interview, she started a movement to remove Kiker for cause. Kelly said the letter to Johanns "wasn't offensive" to the secretary but that "the secretary's feelings aren't as important as how offensive the 30-month rule is.''
Bullard said that R-CALF received no expression of anger from USDA over the Jan. 7 letter.
On Jan. 31, Hawks resigned and in a conference call the board voted to remove Kiker as president and replace him with Max Thornsberry, a Missouri veterinarian. R-CALF founder Leo McDonnell, a Montana rancher, and several committee heads also resigned out of loyalty to Kiker. Kelly said the internal battle was over R-CALF's culture and an attempt to change the organization from one that refused to be "acquiescers" to "posturing R-CALF as a kinder, gentler R-CALF.''
Thornsberry will assemble his own leadership team out of R-CALF's more than 15,000 members, Kelly said. R-CALF's annual "stampede" to Washington for visits to members of Congress and USDA began Feb. 13. According to published reports from the group's annual convention in Denver, over the past year R-CALF has lost about 3,000 members who did not renew memberships with the organization. R-CALF also showed a $276,000 financial loss for last year because of lower membership fees.
At that same convention Kiker was criticized by members for his work on the Cattlemen's Beef Board, the group that disperses beef checkoff dollars and is closely allied with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Look at all the free press R-Klan is getting!!!!

I suppose that is good as there probably isn't much left in the promotion budget after Bullard got done.

Yet in this "open" organization, written financial reports were not available at the annual meeting until last year. Even then, the report disclosed little.

I wonder why there were never any financials at the conventions before last year? Maybe a better question is why there wasn't any members challenging their absence?

Any answers on the financials ocm?


:roll: :roll:

 

[Bill]

Let's put that another way.

Bullard and others have been blamed for fudging membership numbers, losing a pile of money , etc. How idiotic is it for members to go to an annual meeting and not even question why there is not a detailed financial statement to review and approve?

If this is accurate (and it must be as no ne has disputed it with a copy of the minutes) it looks like the R-Klan membership is getting exactly what they deserve for never holding the previous staff and directors accountable.

My but the points made in this article are quite similar to Dittmer's aren't they? I bet there must be someone in the R-Klan inner loop who is singing like a canary over this! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ocm]

Just to set the record straight on one of the many errors in the DTN and the Dittmer stories.

The R-CALF bylaws say that the immediate past president is a member of the board of directors. Leo was a member of the board because he was the immediate past president and for that reason only. He did not represent a region as a director.

When Chuck Kiker was removed as president then (according to the bylaws) Leo McDonnell was no longer immediate past president and no longer a member of the board. So the story says he resigned? How does that jive?

 

[Bill]

Just to set the record straight on one of the many errors in the DTN and the Dittmer stories.

The R-CALF bylaws say that the immediate past president is a member of the board of directors. Leo was a member of the board because he was the immediate past president and for that reason only. He did not represent a region as a director.

When Chuck Kiker was removed as president then (according to the bylaws) Leo McDonnell was no longer immediate past president and no longer a member of the board. So the story says he resigned? How does that jive?

An "open and accountable national org," :lol: :lol: :lol: (Sorry I just can't type that without laughing) such as R-Klan hides its financials from the membership and the best you can come up with is an explanation of how the Past-Presidents position works? Here is a little bit of insider info ocm, the past-President position is that like that in most orgs. The meat of these articles hardly revolves around Leo leaving the board.

 

[ocm]

Just to set the record straight on one of the many errors in the DTN and the Dittmer stories.

The R-CALF bylaws say that the immediate past president is a member of the board of directors. Leo was a member of the board because he was the immediate past president and for that reason only. He did not represent a region as a director.

When Chuck Kiker was removed as president then (according to the bylaws) Leo McDonnell was no longer immediate past president and no longer a member of the board. So the story says he resigned? How does that jive?

An "open and accountable national org," :lol: :lol: :lol: (Sorry I just can't type that without laughing) such as R-Klan hides its financials from the membership and the best you can come up with is an explanation of how the Past-Presidents position works? Here is a little bit of insider info ocm, the past-President position is that like that in most orgs. The meat of these articles hardly revolves around Leo leaving the board.

No, but it is the easiest one to check for error. As I said, if this doesn't jive, what about the other stuff?

 

[Bill]

No what? Are you saying there were no financials presented at previous meetings? Talk about a Mickey Mouse operation.

Now is the chance for R-Calf to corrrect Dittmer and DTN with their own press release or ask for a correction or retraction on what is happening. In fact most orgs. with a communications coordinater (Shae Dodson or maybe she quit too?) would have have been proactive and had that done long ago.

And to think they just came out of an annual convention where all of this should have been handled.

I bet there are a heck of a lot of members wondering what the hell is going on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ocm]

No what? Are you saying there were no financials presented at previous meetings? Talk about a Mickey Mouse operation.

Now is the chance for R-Calf to corrrect Dittmer and DTN with their own press release or ask for a correction or retraction on what is happening. In fact most orgs. with a communications coordinater (Shae Dodson or maybe she quit too?) would have have been proactive and had that done long ago.

And to think they just came out of an annual convention where all of this should have been handled.

I bet there are a heck of a lot of members wondering what the hell is going on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The "no" revolves around the last sentence of your statement. The meat of the article is not about Leo. I think the best way to handle Dittmer and the stuff he spews out is to ignore it. R-CALF members can call their directors and get answers. That's what I did. Not everything was answered, but enough to help me understand. As for non-members, who cares what they think. If they think R-CALF is dead, all the better to catch them by surprise.

 

[Bill]

No what? Are you saying there were no financials presented at previous meetings? Talk about a Mickey Mouse operation.

Now is the chance for R-Calf to corrrect Dittmer and DTN with their own press release or ask for a correction or retraction on what is happening. In fact most orgs. with a communications coordinater (Shae Dodson or maybe she quit too?) would have have been proactive and had that done long ago.

And to think they just came out of an annual convention where all of this should have been handled.

I bet there are a heck of a lot of members wondering what the hell is going on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The "no" revolves around the last sentence of your statement. The meat of the article is not about Leo. I think the best way to handle Dittmer and the stuff he spews out is to ignore it. R-CALF members can call their directors and get answers. That's what I did. Not everything was answered, but enough to help me understand. As for non-members, who cares what they think. If they think R-CALF is dead, all the better to catch them by surprise.

...and still no answer on the financials huh ocm. How many years in a row did R-Klan lose money and why didn't any members give a damn and challenge the leadership and directors? Probably the only director who knew what was going on was Leo and he wasn't going to rock the boat.

I imagine Kiker was glad to get the hell out of there.

As for what non-members think. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's the attitude!!!!!!!!!!!! That should really swell your numbers! :lol: :lol:

 

[nowhereroad1972]

Check to see who left and why many people joined in the first place --

LEO MCDONNELL - personable founder and leader
Chuck Kiker - the hand picked successor to Leo
Jon Wooster - Director California
Jan Wooster - was a committee chair
Danni Beer - COOL
Jay Miller - CCMP
Leesa Zalesky - CCMP
Doug Zalesky - Trade
Judie Manuel - Membership
Dr. Dick Bowman - ID

Now call some of the affiliates - Texas, Nebraska, Washington, Montana

Now call for some of the non-Billings staff. Jess Peterson, John West

Bullard and Kelley have driven the outfit into the ground. GREED is the name of the game.

I used to belong and still hear from some of the people still involved - the only possible way to correct the current course is the can Bullard the his legion of "Team Bill"

I don't think it will happen....

R-CALF is DEAD

 

[Hanta Yo]

The R-CALF bylaws say that the immediate past president is a member of the board of directors. Leo was a member of the board because he was the immediate past president and for that reason only. He did not represent a region as a director.

When Chuck Kiker was removed as president then (according to the bylaws) Leo McDonnell was no longer immediate past president and no longer a member of the board. So the story says he resigned? How does that jive?

ocm, your statement above is bullcrap. You're just grasping at straws.
An immediate past president is still immediate past president especially if the present president gets ousted....unless your by-laws are as goofy as your organization. It appears to me R-laffers don't ever seem to want to know the truth. I've always been curious about the books of R-laff and why the whole subject was hush hush. I know for a fact (I've seen it with my own eyes :shock Some of the R-laff BOD love to fly First Class and knowing this I'll bet they lived the high life when they flew all over the place meeting with people...like very cushy expense accounts...I would love to see those expense accounts

 

[Bill]

No what? Are you saying there were no financials presented at previous meetings? Talk about a Mickey Mouse operation.

Now is the chance for R-Calf to corrrect Dittmer and DTN with their own press release or ask for a correction or retraction on what is happening. In fact most orgs. with a communications coordinater (Shae Dodson or maybe she quit too?) would have have been proactive and had that done long ago.

And to think they just came out of an annual convention where all of this should have been handled.

I bet there are a heck of a lot of members wondering what the hell is going on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The "no" revolves around the last sentence of your statement. The meat of the article is not about Leo. I think the best way to handle Dittmer and the stuff he spews out is to ignore it. R-CALF members can call their directors and get answers. That's what I did. Not everything was answered, but enough to help me understand. As for non-members, who cares what they think. If they think R-CALF is dead, all the better to catch them by surprise.

...and still no answer on the financials huh ocm. How many years in a row did R-Klan lose money and why didn't any members give a damn and challenge the leadership and directors? Probably the only director who knew what was going on was Leo and he wasn't going to rock the boat.

I imagine Kiker was glad to get the hell out of there.

As for what non-members think. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's the attitude!!!!!!!!!!!! That should really swell your numbers! :lol: :lol:

:shock: :shock: Still nothing huh ocm? :lol: :lol:

You mentioned a couple of weeks ago that this years $257.000 deficit did not represent an R-Klan DEBT so the ball is in your court to back up what yos wrote. Those figures should have been available to ANYONE who attended their past several AGMs. You claim to be an R-Klan insider and were at at least this years convention so it shouldn't be difficult at all to provide some figures to back up your claims. I agree with Hanta Yo. Your just like the rest of the R-Klowns and grasping at straws.

R-Calf an open and transparent org. that truly represents producers yet:

-they are only ones who have found a flaw in the wording of rule #2 but you claim they want to keep it a secret.

-they cry foul over the VanDyke dealings with Swift. You say they know more but once keep it a secret

-they obviously don't provide audited financial statements for member approval at their AGMs because ......well it must be secret too!!!!!!

-they come out of a "national" convention and then they start punting people out including their President while others flee the sinking ship but no official response because ...... :shock: :shock: it's secret :shock: :shock:

I was told by a good American ranching friend about 3 years ago that they would self destruct because it was contolled by a select few on the inside more like a secret society. It looks like that statement was incredibly accurate.

 

[Tam]

ocm now that you are explaining R-CALF organizational by laws and rules. Can you answer this, in other organizations when a Regional Director is promoted to the Presidents seat his right to vote is limited to when there is a tie, and his vote is the tie breaker. I'm pretty sure that is how it works up here. So, I'm asking this, who has been representing Texas in the issues/votes for the last year?

When Leo was President, Dennis M was sitting as a Regional Director representing Montana and the Northwest producers, but who was voting for Texas producers while Kiker was President?

And doesn't the Past President's vote count which means Montana had two votes and Texas the largest cattle producing State in the Union had none?

The website only mentions Regional Directors are there any other Directors sitting on the R-CALF board, that are not listed on the website that could have represented Texas?

If there are others now many?
And why are they not listed so people know who to contact if they have a problem?

I'll give you time to answer these before I ask you the rest.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, Bill, and any of the rest of the R-CALF Obsessed Canadians; Considering your sordid histories of blaming R-CALF for your own organization's shortcomings and ball-dropping, your penchant for mis-quoting R-CALF leaders, and your overall reading comprehension problems, why do you expect anything from R-CALF members? As far as I'm concerned, you can flap your lips, scream, gnash your teeth, etc... all you want. R-CALF isn't dead and isn't going away. You should be glad for that as then you wouldn't have anyone to blame for the problems you have allowed to take root but yourselves - where the blame belongs.

R-CALF clearly has had disagreement and a parting of ways with some of our leaders. That happens. Call it growing pains. Majority rules and nobody that left can't be replaced. We'll move on and you can still claim that R-CALF doesn't count, has no credibility, etc... and then prove even you don't believe what you're saying by obsessing on every little thing from Billings.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Tam, Bill, and any of the rest of the R-CALF Obsessed Canadians; Considering your sordid histories of blaming R-CALF for your own organization's shortcomings and ball-dropping, your penchant for mis-quoting R-CALF leaders, and your overall reading comprehension problems, why do you expect anything from R-CALF members? As far as I'm concerned, you can flap your lips, scream, gnash your teeth, etc... all you want. R-CALF isn't dead and isn't going away. You should be glad for that as then you wouldn't have anyone to blame for the problems you have allowed to take root but yourselves - where the blame belongs.

R-CALF clearly has had disagreement and a parting of ways with some of our leaders. That happens. Call it growing pains. Majority rules and nobody that left can't be replaced. We'll move on and you can still claim that R-CALF doesn't count, has no credibility, etc... and then prove even you don't believe what you're saying by obsessing on every little thing from Billings.

Your sounding a little desperate there Junior

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, Bill, and any of the rest of the R-CALF Obsessed Canadians; Considering your sordid histories of blaming R-CALF for your own organization's shortcomings and ball-dropping, your penchant for mis-quoting R-CALF leaders, and your overall reading comprehension problems, why do you expect anything from R-CALF members? As far as I'm concerned, you can flap your lips, scream, gnash your teeth, etc... all you want. R-CALF isn't dead and isn't going away. You should be glad for that as then you wouldn't have anyone to blame for the problems you have allowed to take root but yourselves - where the blame belongs.

R-CALF clearly has had disagreement and a parting of ways with some of our leaders. That happens. Call it growing pains. Majority rules and nobody that left can't be replaced. We'll move on and you can still claim that R-CALF doesn't count, has no credibility, etc... and then prove even you don't believe what you're saying by obsessing on every little thing from Billings.

Your sounding a little desperate there Junior

Whatever

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Tam, Bill, and any of the rest of the R-CALF Obsessed Canadians; Considering your sordid histories of blaming R-CALF for your own organization's shortcomings and ball-dropping, your penchant for mis-quoting R-CALF leaders, and your overall reading comprehension problems, why do you expect anything from R-CALF members? As far as I'm concerned, you can flap your lips, scream, gnash your teeth, etc... all you want. R-CALF isn't dead and isn't going away. You should be glad for that as then you wouldn't have anyone to blame for the problems you have allowed to take root but yourselves - where the blame belongs.

R-CALF clearly has had disagreement and a parting of ways with some of our leaders. That happens. Call it growing pains. Majority rules and nobody that left can't be replaced. We'll move on and you can still claim that R-CALF doesn't count, has no credibility, etc... and then prove even you don't believe what you're saying by obsessing on every little thing from Billings.

Your sounding a little desperate there Junior

Whatever

Since you don't want to answer any questions for nonmemebers why don't you answer this one for your self. Have I ever seen an audited finacial statement from R-CALF?

 

[Sandhusker]

Why don't you ask these question of yourself;

Why am I obsessed with a foreign trade organization?

Why is my survival based on one country accepting my product?

Why did my government give millions of my tax dollars to profitable US corporations?

Why did I do nothing while our packing industry was sold to foreigners?

Why can't Canada do anything without the blessing of Tyson/ Cargill?

Why can't what's left of the Canadian packing industry test for BSE to meet a potential conumser's request?

Why isn't "Canada" concentrating on the lucrative Asian markets?

 

[Anonymous]

Why don't you ask these question of yourself;

Why am I obsessed with a foreign trade organization?

Why is my survival based on one country accepting my product?

Why did my government give millions of my tax dollars to profitable US corporations?

Why did I do nothing while our packing industry was sold to foreigners?

Why can't Canada do anything without the blessing of Tyson/ Cargill?

Why can't what's left of the Canadian packing industry test for BSE to meet a potential conumser's request?

Why isn't "Canada" concentrating on the lucrative Asian markets?

But they won't Sandhusker-- Easier to blame it on the US and R-CALF...

Some interesting threads over on Agriville where the Canadians are not all followers of the ABP, CCA, SSGA like on here...Interesting to see that not all Canadians are just finger pointers blaming someone else for all the worlds problems and are really questioning why they allowed they, their cattle organizations, and government allowed this situation to occur......

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Why don't you ask these question of yourself;

Why am I obsessed with a foreign trade organization?

Why is my survival based on one country accepting my product?

Why did my government give millions of my tax dollars to profitable US corporations?

Why did I do nothing while our packing industry was sold to foreigners?

Why can't Canada do anything without the blessing of Tyson/ Cargill?

Why can't what's left of the Canadian packing industry test for BSE to meet a potential conumser's request?

Why isn't "Canada" concentrating on the lucrative Asian markets?

1: Why is a trade organization obsessed with ruining Canadian ranchers livelihoods?

2: Why doesn't a country that has had integrated trade with a country for over 100 years think they can become an island all of a sudden?

3: Why did my government give millions to profitable US corporations?
I think we both can ask this question.
4: Who said i did nothing? That's an assumption. What have you done?

5; That's your perception. Do you have the same perception of the USDA?

6: What do you mean "what's left" our capacity has increased since BSE. To test a meaningful amount of beef and do it properly would not be feasible. BSE is not a food safety issue. 7: If you would check we have markets opening to our beef that we are working on to grow.
Does it make sense to you to offer at greater expense service to potential bank customers farther away from your branch and ignore the customers that are your historical ones that live close by?

 

[ocm]

Look at how this discussion has degraded. People talking about the bylaws of R-CALF, offering opinions on them even though they haven't seen them. Erroneous opinions on the position of president a la Robert's Rules of Order. Yet then also asking questions as if they will believe what I say, when I think that is not the case.

DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE. And I should say do your OWN research.

At this point in light of ~SH~'s wise observation that "LIES HAVE SPEED BUT THE TRUTH HAS ENDURANCE!!! " , I will simply sit back and let the lies that have cropped up so fast fade away and let the truth endure. If it takes more than a few weeks I will be surprised.

I may have to go into "bulletin board rehab" to reexamine my penchant for trying to explain things to brick walls. Sandhusker, care to join me?