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EPD's Contempory grouping

H

Horseless

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Northern MT
Have had some register Angus for 11 years, never kept any bulls and never papered any heifers until this year. Sent in application on some Bull and heifer calves, not a single question if they were handled differently. So where does that info go. I didn't creep feed, but no questions on whether I did or not. Which contempory groups will these calves be place in??? I have basically two types of cattle, moderate framed and then some performance growth animals. Will they send me more questions??
 
Horseless said:
Have had some register Angus for 11 years, never kept any bulls and never papered any heifers until this year. Sent in application on some Bull and heifer calves, not a single question if they were handled differently. So where does that info go. I didn't creep feed, but no questions on whether I did or not. Which contempory grouping will these calves be place in??? I have basically two types of cattle, moderate framed and then some performancing growth animals. Will they send me more questions??
Click to expand...

Once you enter them into the AHIR (Angus Herd Improvement Record) program you will have to provide info about creep and contemporary grouping. You might give the angus folks a call, they are really nice people to talk to and deal with.
 
When you send in the weaning weight report it has a column for the contemporary groups.

example: All calves were in the same pasture had the same upbringing. Group A would be your heifer calves, B your bull calves, C your steers. If you don't seperate them out somehow, they are all ratioed together, meaning bulls are compared to heifers which would bring the bull performance down. Or pretty much they are all ratioed to a steer level.
That's as simple as I can explain it.

Usually when you send in your registration info, they send back a sheet to put your weaning info on and then send it back to AAA. The past couple of years they have sent out info sheets to explain contemporary groups and ultrasound submissions.
 
AHIR is a voluntary program isn't it. I have not received any weaning report, just a bill for registering them. Waiting on some DNA. Thats another crazy one. DNA form asks for registration number, but you can't register without knowing the sire.
 
Yes you need to get your info into the AHIR system before your data is useful to the program.

Are the parents of the cattle you are registering registered? You say you have had registered cattle for 11 years, but never registered any of them. If the parents are not registered, but from registered stock, the calves can not be registered.

For the DNA, you need the sires registration number so they can verify it is a registered animal. The AAA has a number set aside for your animal to be registered under. Call them and get some help.
 
sic 'em reds said:
Yes you need to get your info into the AHIR system before your data is useful to the program.

Are the parents of the cattle you are registering registered? You say you have had registered cattle for 11 years, but never registered any of them. If the parents are not registered, but from registered stock, the calves can not be registered.

For the DNA, you need the sires registration number so they can verify it is a registered animal. The AAA has a number set aside for your animal to be registered under. Call them and get some help.
Click to expand...

I guess it is just a learning experience. Have contacted them and told them what I had and what I wanted to do. They just don't volunteer any extra info, if you don't ask they don't tell. (just another new guy attitude :roll: )

At the moment, having trouble logging on with username to their site.
The animals I'm registering are from papered animals. Have not registered any offspring until now. I am a commercial cowman that has picked up some registered cows over the years. Papers on them all have been transfered to me.
Just trying to learn the system and to see if it needs repaired :wink:

Horseless
 
Well, once you get the DNA info back, send it into the association. Also request info about AHIR and get that all straightened out.

Once you get that, enter the weaning information. Then they send a deal back with the info you submitted along with a yearling info sheet. Send that in with the weaning weights. Then next year they will send you a sheet with all of your cows. This sheet will list the cow with her registration # and will have rows and columns to put information in about the new years calves(ie. 2007 calf crop). Fill that out and send in when you register the calves.

Then you should be on your way.
 
Badlands, I don't totally understand if you are making a statement or asking a question? The way I read it, you are saying ratioing the bulls and heifers is good because you get to common ground with the calves. Please correct me if I am reading your post wrong.

What I am saying is that for your bulls, you would expect them to perform better than the heifers. By breaking them into their own contemporary groups, you are only comparing the bulls to bulls. If you have them in the same contemporary group as steers and heifers, the performance "ratios" will be distorted on the bulls. Same goes for the heifers and steers. You want to compare oranges to oranges, not apples to oranges.

Thats why the associations have split into contemporary groups, to compare like animals. You can put them all in a contemporary group together, but you are not giving the animals a chance to really show their potential "statistically". It's all numbers, but higher ratioing cattle are usually the top performing cattle in a contemporary group and that is what you would more than likely like to select for. Why select for low performance cattle, whether its grass finishing or high concentrate diets.

The adjustment for sex is not an issue in contemporary groups because that is what they are. They are set up to compare contemporaries of the same sex.
 
Horseless said:
sic 'em reds said:
Yes you need to get your info into the AHIR system before your data is useful to the program.

Are the parents of the cattle you are registering registered? You say you have had registered cattle for 11 years, but never registered any of them. If the parents are not registered, but from registered stock, the calves can not be registered.

For the DNA, you need the sires registration number so they can verify it is a registered animal. The AAA has a number set aside for your animal to be registered under. Call them and get some help.
Click to expand...

I guess it is just a learning experience. Have contacted them and told them what I had and what I wanted to do. They just don't volunteer any extra info, if you don't ask they don't tell. (just another new guy attitude :roll: )

At the moment, having trouble logging on with username to their site.
The animals I'm registering are from papered animals. Have not registered any offspring until now. I am a commercial cowman that has picked up some registered cows over the years. Papers on them all have been transfered to me.
Just trying to learn the system and to see if it needs repaired :wink:

Horseless
Click to expand...

Once you get use to it, logging in and putting in info via the internet gets easier. As my ultrasound tech told me if you're not going to keep records, etc why would you want registered cattle? You should be striving to improve your herd.
 
sic 'em reds:

I made a blanket statement. I shouldn't have done that.

Some breeds split CG's out by sex and some don't.

In the breeds that don't split the CG's by sex, they adjust for sex, so then the groups are larger, and yes, in those cases you can compare ADJ WT Ratios.

Your breed might require that they groups be split into sexes.

My point was that if your breed does NOT split by sex, and you still see all the bulls ratioing higher than the heifers, the sex adjustments are "bad".

The reason we adjust is to factor age of calf, age of dam, etc OUT of the ratio. If you still see those effects after factoring them out, then there are problems with the adjustments.

You couldn't see the problems on an individual case, you would have to plot them against whatever effect you are looking at to see if there is a pattern. It's a statistical procedure, but if the effect is not adjusted well enough, you can see it.

Badlands
 
Sic 'em reds,

Thanks for the input. I called the angus assoc. about my loggin problem, that gal has been the most helpful. She got me straighten out and I got all my info into AHIR. I liked what I saw for the info they asked for. As a commercial breeder I have been told I keep to many records. I didn't know that if I enter my Commercial cows into their system, the registered bulls receive credit for the outcome of their commercial offspring. Just a mere $3 per weaning weight. Ouch!!
 
Your registered bulls can receive "credit" for the commercial calves if they are enrolled in the Angus Source program. You have to buy the tags, enter the pertenant info on the calves. Then I think, as they go through the system, feedlot and slaughter, the data is sent back to the AAA.

Where do you live up there? I am from the Great Falls/Geraldine area.
What you need to do is call Andy Rest, the AAA rep for MT and have him help you with the Angus Source thing. I haven't ever done it so I don't know exactly how it works. Andy's number is (406) 254-7576
 

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